Discussion Why are there so many regulars here?? Also, hot take, don't kill yourself (probably) lol

[25menrunning]

There's a lot of people here discussing sources and methods. A lot of people commenting, a lot of people dooming. I just don't really understand. Yes, there aren't really any posts here that explicitly and super easily tell you how to access certain chemicals or medications. But there's enough that with some digging you can certainly find it. As well as how to do things, and info on more common methods as well (not substances). So many people here will post stuff talking about how to kill yourself for years.

Some people (I'm assuming you know who I'm talking about) comment on nearly every popular post about how terrible life is and how much suicide is the solution and death is relief (which I'm against the premise of but whatever. Keep in mind I'm quite suicidal and I completely understand why someone would attempt, but the idea of death as relief or something nebulous or beautiful is just false which I think is sad and also dangerous).

Why are we telling people how to kill themselves? Why are these people who are so pro-suicide, still living and on this website? I suspect for many it's the kind of passive bridging active suicidality I and many others have struggled with for years. It's comforting to be able to bask in suicidality. It provides relief on some level.

But I will not assist people in killing themselves. There's honestly a lot of really good arguments not to. The impact on loved ones, or really anyone that knows you, is absolutely insane. Which isn't enough, but should sure as hell be highly considered. Everyone will die anyways. That's where a lot of existential dread comes from. Whether you kill yourself, spend your dies on this site, or live completely 'normally', death comes for us all. Infinite nothingness, a blip of something, and then more infinite nothingness. To shorten that blip is interesting. But the end is the same either way. Which can be relief. Suicide attempts often fail, and ruin peoples lives. Luckily, life can do it for you. And life WILL do it for you, whether you want it to or not. You just have to wait.

Death isn't relief. Releif is a feeling. You feel the pressure in your head, or pain around your neck, or excruciating stomach pain, or dizziness, and then...

End of sentence. That's it.

Life has potential to improve, for you to want to live it. You won't know if you end it. It also has potential to get worse, which is a lot of why I want to die. And it's exhausting. But logically, it's usually the wrong choice. Because the potential to improve or bring joy or be glad you lived outweighs the other options, since you'll get both eventually. Even if life gets worse, it'll end one day. Either option will take your life. Only one option leaves the door open for a blip of happiness.

I also don't want to encourage others to die, because selfish or not, it would weigh on me. If I feel like someone died because of me, that's haunting as fuck.

Just know what you're getting yourself into. I can't convince you not to, no one really fully can, and this certainly isn't the place you'd be looking for it. But don't romanticize death. You won't find peace or releif. You won't be there to feel better or to feel anything at all. There won't even be a 'you'. You'll probably be in excrutiating pain, and then nada. Nothing more to experience. Yes, you take away all potential for future suffering. But you also take away potential for getting better, for a life worth living, for the joy of certain moments.

Something I found online too that encapsulates some of this:
It's a suicidal person's fantasy that if you actually did it, suddenly you'd get all the love people have been withholding.

In reality, the people who are selfish and don't care about you when you're alive will not change their characters. People will make drama about your death in ways that put the attention on them, and they will control the narrative. They will tell the story of why you died and what you were like when you were alive, and you won't be around to counter it. The people who bullied or abused you won't have a sudden shock of guilt and repent--they will blame everyone but themselves, they will put the blame on you yourself, they will get to be the main character and the real victim and it will all be about them. It will be a free-for-all feeding frenzy of sympathy and attention for everyone around you, the people who are still alive, and no one will care what you think anymore because you're not here and you will never give them anything ever again.

The people who genuinely loved you will feel crushed and abandoned by your choice. Either they will just hurt immensely and have to leave you in the past to survive themselves, or they might follow you into death--suicide is unfortunately contagious. You won't have a place of honor in the world with them either. You'll be a wound. Someone they can't bear to think of often, or for very long, because they want that wound to close.

The world is always about the people who are alive living in it, not the people who are gone. The second panel doesn't even exist. You don't get a placeholder in the world. Your story is over. There is only a footnote in other people's stories. Only their lives, their drama, their main character moments. Absolutely nothing is about you once you die, it is only about how others cope with your absence, and even that only in small percentage--mostly it is simply about them and has less and less and less to do with you at all. And if they weren't nice to you when you were alive, they won't be very nice in your wake either.

The ego that cares so much if someone thinks you're annoying cannot fully imagine its own dissolution, its own impermanence. Suicide is not a way to become liked.

Maybe this is the real blackpill or whatever, but anyone I think I'd have to literally die to make them think better of me wouldn't actually think better of me even if I did die.

Now. I'm still suicidal. There's a good chance this is how I'll die. But I thought I'd mention why I think it's still the illogical decision in many cases, even if I give myself permission to be illogical to escape this pain and fatigue and uncertainty. Don't make a permanent decision you don't fully understand. And more of us then we'd like to think don't truly understand death.



That was a long tangent. My original question is why there are so many 'regulars' here. You'd assume by nature of the site they'd ether recover and leave or... something else. Doesn't take away from any pain or seriousness of this that they haven't yet. And again, for many, it makes sense. Though this isn't the healthiest nor safest place to vent. It's just weird to me.

If you want to improve, try to limit your time on this site. It has it's merits, notably being able to talk about being suicidal without people freaking so much. But it's not really good for you. Get what you need out of it, then limit your time. Bad actors are a concern too. That's my advice.

 

[majmun32]

I think that people who kill themselves are too optimistic. Who knows what awaits on the other side, and if everything really is infinite, then there must be some reucurrence of consciuousness.

 

[SASU-KE]

Thing is, individuals here have different life circumstances. There are some in chronic pain who don't have any choice but to plan an exit. Others in constant mental agony.

Your advice of saying that if one wants to improve they need to limit the time on the site is very simplistic. Their issues have nothing to do with the site.

 

[heyy]

I am quite the opposite (not pro death but pro choice) it is logically better to not exist in my opinion. why can't some people just not let them make the choice they want?? no one asked u if u want to be born, why not let them at least decide how and when they go?

I know for some people it is a temporary feeling to want to die. Sometimes therapy and changes etc really help them to improve their lives and are later happy to be alive, but thats not the truth for everyone. some things can't be healed. that is the truth. doesnt matter if its physical or mentally. people need to understand that they are not always in the position to judge and force people to stay alive (not reffering to u).


english is not my first language, hope it is fairly easy to read :P

Thing is, individuals here have different life circumstances. There are some in chronic pain who don't have any choice but to plan an exit. Others in constant mental agony.

Your advice of saying that if one wants to improve they need to limit the time on the site is very simplistic. Their issues have nothing to do with the site.

totally agree <3

 

[25menrunning]

Thing is, individuals here have different life circumstances. There are some in chronic pain who don't have any choice but to plan an exit. Others in constant mental agony.

Your advice of saying that if one wants to improve they need to limit the time on the site is very simplistic. Their issues have nothing to do with the site.

I know, I have a serious chronic health issue which is a lot of why I'm suicidal. But spending time on this site does not help that. And it also doesn't kill you. It just is a little dangerous because you don't know who sees your posts, and probably bad for your mental state. I resolved a long time ago to strive to not think about suicide in that in-between way, of not really doing it but also thinking about it all the time. Probably made me more of a risk to myself and contributed to my serious suicide attempt last year because it increased my impulsivity since the other non 'just thinking about it's is to actually attempt, but it was good in some ways too because most of the time it meant I was just living my life. The suicidality itself is damaging to you, regardless of other things. Though it is comforting.

 

[interna]

i get what you're saying but i don't think most people here care about whether this forum & suicide ideation itself does them more bad than good

 

[Dejected 55]

A lot of people on here, myself included, have tried and failed... some of us multiple times. All the information out there, sometimes even when followed to the letter, don't work for everyone as described. Or it feels different than you were expecting and you bail mid-attempt. There are lots of us here who really want to go but haven't figured out how to do it successfully yet.

Meanwhile, the notion of "only one choice leaves the option to improve"... turns out, the same option that gives "potential for improvement" also allows you to continue suffering and perhaps suffer more each day than the one before... so there's that. There's no guarantee anything will ever get better just like there's no guarantee it will continue to get worse... but for most of us there has been many years of anecdotal evidence that, for us at least, things tend to get worse more so than get better over time.

 

[25menrunning]

I am quite the opposite (not pro death but pro choice) it is logically better to not exist in my opinion. why can't some people just not let them make the choice they want?? no one asked u if u want to be born, why not let them at least decide how and when they go?

I know for some people it is a temporary feeling to want to die. Sometimes therapy and changes etc really help them to improve their lives and are later happy to be alive, but thats not the truth for everyone. some things can't be healed. that is the truth. doesnt matter if its physical or mentally. people need to understand that they are not always in the position to judge and force people to stay alive (not reffering to u).


english is not my first language, hope it is fairly easy to read :P

totally agree <3

I've been suicidal for a lot of years. I totally understand this perspective. I don't think its morally wrong or anything other then the way that it impacts others, which is still a (very major) thing regardless of if its 'fair' or not. But again, it's a bit less logical then you think. Because a lot of people are suicidal because they want relief, or peace. Just look at so many posts here. And that's not what death actually is. You have no peace, no feeling, no abstract beauty, no person to enjoy the lack of pain, nothing. People are making literally the most significant decision you can make without even understanding it.

Does that make them crazy or stupid? No way. Most people don't really understand death. It's normal. Society makes up stories to varying degrees about it to cope both with the reality that death comes for us all, but also (whether people would like to admit it or not), often to cope with life. Because if suicide is something its not, that means you have a much better escape valve then we really do. I understand why. But it's not real.

i get what you're saying but i don't think most people here care about whether this forum & suicide ideation itself does them more bad than good

I mean yeah, fair.

 

[Hollowman]

I haven't ended myself yet because I'm trying to outlive my mom. The day she dies or very shortly after I'm out.

 

[gardenoflonely]

Just out of curiosity, when you people comment on thinking about the family are those of us without support systems just supposed to kill ourselves on the spot reading things like that or what? Why is it always the same line about living for others?

 

[Myforevercharlie]

There's a lot of people here discussing sources and methods. A lot of people commenting, a lot of people dooming. I just don't really understand. Yes, there aren't really any posts here that explicitly and super easily tell you how to access certain chemicals or medications. But there's enough that with some digging you can certainly find it. As well as how to do things, and info on more common methods as well (not substances). So many people here will post stuff talking about how to kill yourself for years.

Some people (I'm assuming you know who I'm talking about) comment on nearly every popular post about how terrible life is and how much suicide is the solution and death is relief (which I'm against the premise of but whatever. Keep in mind I'm quite suicidal and I completely understand why someone would attempt, but the idea of death as relief or something nebulous or beautiful is just false which I think is sad and also dangerous).

Why are we telling people how to kill themselves? Why are these people who are so pro-suicide, still living and on this website? I suspect for many it's the kind of passive bridging active suicidality I and many others have struggled with for years. It's comforting to be able to bask in suicidality. It provides relief on some level.

But I will not assist people in killing themselves. There's honestly a lot of really good arguments not to. The impact on loved ones, or really anyone that knows you, is absolutely insane. Which isn't enough, but should sure as hell be highly considered. Everyone will die anyways. That's where a lot of existential dread comes from. Whether you kill yourself, spend your dies on this site, or live completely 'normally', death comes for us all. Infinite nothingness, a blip of something, and then more infinite nothingness. To shorten that blip is interesting. But the end is the same either way. Which can be relief. Suicide attempts often fail, and ruin peoples lives. Luckily, life can do it for you. And life WILL do it for you, whether you want it to or not. You just have to wait.

Death isn't relief. Releif is a feeling. You feel the pressure in your head, or pain around your neck, or excruciating stomach pain, or dizziness, and then...

End of sentence. That's it.

Life has potential to improve, for you to want to live it. You won't know if you end it. It also has potential to get worse, which is a lot of why I want to die. And it's exhausting. But logically, it's usually the wrong choice. Because the potential to improve or bring joy or be glad you lived outweighs the other options, since you'll get both eventually. Even if life gets worse, it'll end one day. Either option will take your life. Only one option leaves the door open for a blip of happiness.

I also don't want to encourage others to die, because selfish or not, it would weigh on me. If I feel like someone died because of me, that's haunting as fuck.




Now. I'm still suicidal. There's a good chance this is how I'll die. But I thought I'd mention why I think it's still the illogical decision in many cases, even if I give myself permission to be illogical to escape this pain and fatigue and uncertainty. Don't make a permanent decision you don't fully understand. And more of us then we'd like to think don't truly understand death.



That was a long tangent. My original question is why there are so many 'regulars' here. You'd assume by nature of the site they'd ether recover and leave or... something else. Doesn't take away from any pain or seriousness of this that they haven't yet. And again, for many, it makes sense. Though this isn't the healthiest nor safest place to vent. It's just weird to me.

If you want to improve, try to limit your time on this site. It has it's merits, notably being able to talk about being suicidal without people freaking so much. But it's not really good for you. Get what you need out of it, then limit your time. Bad actors are a concern too. That's my advice.

Why someone ( me including) stays here for years is non of your concern. If someone finds a place here, does it really matter then? If they're here to find a way to end their lives or just wants to be heard / supported/ find people who're dealing with the same they do, I don't see a problem with that.


Especially when you realize some even find a reason to give life another chance.

Pro choice works both ways.

 

[Hollowman]

Just out of curiosity, when you people comment on thinking about the family are those of us without support systems just supposed to kill ourselves on the spot reading things like that or what? Why is it always the same line about living for others?

You're supposed to do whatever you think is best for you.

 

[bugfart]

I'm here because speaking about my feelings honestly gets me whisked away into the ward where I'm traumatized, beaten, potentially sexually harrassed or attempted to be assaulted, etc. the mental health system is a trap and there is a limit to "free speech". It's comforting to read people feeling the same way and knowing I'm not alone or to make friends who feel the same way without getting too attached to them, and just speak my mind. I've tried many times and I plan to do it this year when im finally living (semi) alone, you have to remember a lot of people who attempt often are highly monitored after, they may be forced to move back home or live with roomates.

I'm posting this from a dimmed phone screen with my mom sleeping in a bed next to mine because she didn't trust me to stay at our house during her trip. I can't attempt right now and I'm not left alone during the summer when I'm home from university, and previously I've had resident assistants check on me or have had roommates. Life only gets worse when you attempt and if people care about you they'll never leave you alone again. In the ward I couldn't even pee with the door closed due to policies. Different people have different outlets and ways of coping. I don't advise people on how to die and I try to show that I'm listening to them, I try to chime in and say how I'm feeling and that I hear them, that's what most people on the forum are looking for. Humans are social creatures. And what's good or bad isn't for you to say. I don't get triggered from talking about suicide but some might. I feel comforted from being able to talk about my feelings with suicidal ideation/ about morbid topics without the threat of being sent to the ward or even court ordered/ put in handcuffs again.

 

[They call me Death.]

I don't really understand the meaning of this post. As in, I don't think this post belongs on a website like this But maybe I didn't read it well enough, idk. I'm tired.

 

[dust-in-the-wind]

For me it is the loneliness of my mental illness. I have loved ones but I have become a burden to all of them and I am so ashamed. I want to die and I need a place to vent my feelings as I have no one that understands or wants to listen to me anymore. Being able to express myself on here has actually kept me alive longer.

 

[in hell out soon]

i failed to catch my bus and need to get it right next time

but there are some people here who understand some things i do and our lists, as personal to us as they are, sometimes have those mutual entries

 

[Dot]

Hy evry1 jst kll urslves or mve on amirite /s

*purgatry hs Ntered th/ cht*

Smetmes havng a plce 2 liv out thse feelngs = wht kps ppl alve -- sasu fr mny ppl = copng mechnsm & whle fr sme ppl = mght b maldaptve copng mechnsm = @ lst 1 whch brngs ppl sme cmmunty & plce fr feelng herd

Slf am obvsly of belif tht recvry cn b pssble fr lts of ppl bcse tht = reasn tht slf spnt all tht tme makng recvry mterials fr membrs shld thy strt leanng tht wy or feelng strng enuf & brve enuf & rdy 2 try 2 liv agn bt @ th/ sme tme ppl d/ nt nd 2 b lecturd 2 b/ sme1 wh/ hs bn on th/ ste fr 1 mnth

Slf stuatn = nt a cse tht slf cn strt thnkng hppy thghts or 'tryn2 chnge slf stuatn' bcse slf stuatn = b-ing trappd in a permnnt st8 of terrr & 'atypicl dssociatn' as psychtrst sd whch cannt b fixd b/ therpy

S/ if u hve all th/ answrs slf lk 4ward 2 u makng th/ mst of all of th/ recvry rsourcs @ ur dsposl untl u r redy 2 mve on & join bck wth th/ shny hppy ppl agn

Also ffs ppl stp targtng specfc membrs wh/ r suffrng as mch as evry els & fcus on livng ur own lfe


Sme1 mght nd 2 transl8 ths

 

[thelostautistic]

I'm not really sure why you're essentially shaming "regulars" as you say for being here. There are so many reasons why people end up here. I know that this site isn't healthy for me however I have a community here of people that understand my situation far better than people I'm around in real life. It's human nature to want community in whatever form that is. I know sites like this would horrify most people but it's been a huge comfort for me and I've been shown a lot of kindness here.

This site is also pro choice not pro suicide. Are there people here that are pro suicide? Probably, but that doesn't mean we all are. I do agree with you though about not wanting assist others. That's something I've never done and will never do here because that's against my morals. If threads on here discussing methods and sources make you feel uncomfortable then just avoid them. I avoid lots of threads that make me feel uncomfortable on here. I don't criticise the people for making the posts. Majority of people here are probably hurting. Let's not knock them down further.

 

[wine is fine but]

Hy evry1 jst kll urslves or mve on amirite /s

hey everyone just kill yourselves or move on - am i right? (Sarcastic)

*purgatry hs Ntered th/ cht*

purgatory has entered the chat

Smetmes havng a plce 2 liv out thse feelngs = wht kps ppl alve -- sasu fr mny ppl = copng mechnsm & whle fr sme ppl = mght b maldaptve copng mechnsm = @ lst 1 whch brngs ppl sme cmmunty & plce fr feelng herd

sometimes, having a place to live out these feelings is what keep people alive. sasu for many people equals coping mechanism and while for some people it might be maladaptive coping mechanism it's at least one which brings people some community and place for feeling heard

Slf am obvsly of belif tht recvry cn b pssble fr lts of ppl bcse tht = reasn tht slf spnt all tht tme makng recvry mterials fr membrs shld thy strt leanng tht wy or feelng strng enuf & brve enuf & rdy 2 try 2 liv agn bt @ th/ sme tme ppl d/ nt nd 2 b lecturd 2 b/ sme1 wh/ hs bn on th/ ste fr 1 mnth

i am obviously of the belief that recovery can be possible for lots of people because of that. the reason that i spent all that time making recovery materials for members. should they start leaning that way or feeling strong enough and brave enough and ready to try to live again. but at the same time, people do not need to be lectured by someone who has been on this site for one month

Slf stuatn = nt a cse tht slf cn strt thnkng hppy thghts or 'tryn2 chnge slf stuatn' bcse slf stuatn = b-ing trappd in a permnnt st8 of terrr & 'atypicl dssociatn' as psychtrst sd whch cannt b fixd b/ therpy

my situation is not a case that i can start thinking happy thoughts or trying two change my situation because my situation is being trapped in a permanent state of terror and atypical dissociation. as psychiatrist said which cannot be fixed by therapy

S/ if u hve all th/ answrs slf lk 4ward 2 u makng th/ mst of all of th/ recvry rsourcs @ ur dsposl untl u r redy 2 mve on & join bck wth th/ shny hppy ppl agn

so if you have all the answers yourself, look forward to make the most of all of the recovery resources at your disposal until you are ready to move on and join back with the shiny, happy people again

Also ffs ppl stp targtng specfc membrs wh/ r suffrng as mch as evry els & fcus on livng ur own lfe

also ffs people, stop targeting specific members who are suffering as much as everyone else and focus on living your own life

Sme1 mght nd 2 transl8 ths

hopefully i got it close to right :)

and folks - if you are zero from one with sarcasm today - the first line about killing yourself and move on was pure sarcasm
do not take it seriously

 

[Dot]

hey everyone just kill yourselves or move on - am i right? (Sarcastic)

purgatory has entered the chat

sometimes, having a place to live out these feelings is what keep people alive. sasu for many people equals coping mechanism and while for some people it might be maladaptive coping mechanism it's at least one which brings people some community and place for feeling heard

i am obviously of the belief that recovery can be possible for lots of people because of that. the reason that i spent all that time making recovery materials for members. should they start leaning that way or feeling strong enough and brave enough and ready to try to live again. but at the same time, people do not need to be lectured by someone who has been on this site for one month

my situation is not a case that i can start thinking happy thoughts or trying two change my situation because my situation is being trapped in a permanent state of terror and atypical dissociation. as psychiatrist said which cannot be fixed by therapy

so if you have all the answers yourself, look forward to make the most of all of the recovery resources at your disposal until you are ready to move on and join back with the shiny, happy people again

also ffs people, stop targeting specific members who are suffering as much as everyone else and focus on living your own life

hopefully i got it close to right :)

gd jb - apprci8 - slf jst askd md 2 add clarfcatn tht openng phrse ws sarcsm fr obvs reasns ha

 

[wine is fine but]

gd jb - apprci8 - slf jst askd md 2 add clarfcatn tht openng phrse ws sarcsm fr obvs reasns ha

no worries, i got the first line as sarcasm, but took me a little bit to get the purgatory bit :)

after our last posts on my van halen thread, i noticed the message in your custom title
after reading that, i "hope" i can understand your posts much easier now - it cannot be easy for you, so hopefully everyone can read your profile and understand your situation and words much better

 

[Forever Sleep]

You kind of answered your own question later on... The choice to actually suicide is a complex one. Many people here are trying to hold on so as not to hurt loved ones (me included.) Some are extremely restricted as to what they can get hold of- if they live with their families and have no independent income. Also, if they live in places that heavily restrict peaceful methods. They may struggle as to where to commit even. Do they really want to die at home and be found by family members? Do they have the money for a hotel? Many are simply crippled by fear of attempting.

Can I throw a question back at you please? Why do people on the one hand- insist suicide is the wrong choice and describe in detail why: The chances of it going wrong, the unknown element of the afterlife, the impact it has on loved ones. Then on the other, they seem to get cross when people on a suicide forum are here 'too long' and seem to be faffing about- rather than making the decision to just do it. Couldn't it be that they do still feel like they want to suicide but- they are struggling with all the issues you have acknowledged?

Of course- if you actually believe there are people here who are bad actors and who are only here to encourage others to suicide- you should report them.

The other side to it is the concept of 'recovery'. I get the impression you feel like people should fall into two camps. Either they want to die- they come here to find out how and then commit in a short time period. Or- they initially want to die, realise they can't- for whatever reason so- commit to recovery instead.

You're surely not taking into account how people actually feel about life though. How long they have been fighting to 'recover'. People here- especially in the suicide section may have lost the actual will to live. When 'recovery' to a better life doesn't even appeal- where do they go from there?

I think you need to bear in mind that a fair number of people don't dip in and out of ideation- it can be constant for them. They may simply not even have this desire to 'get better'. They may not even believe in it. 'Get better' into what? Wage slavery for the rest of their lives? What should they be looking forward to? What if they simply don't want the same things you do?

As to why people come here. I imagine- it's because we can be honest here- without hearing the usual platitudes/ frustration we hear everywhere else. We may be trying to spare our friends and family the worry and sadness of realising how we feel. Yet, we may still feel the need for human connection. It can feel massively isolating to feel suicidal and know that you can't express that side of yourself to the vast majority of people.

I do agree- that it may not be the healthiest of environments. It is a pretty negative echochamber. But still- people may be rejecting the more forced positive arenas because they have found that they don't help them.

Personally- I'm 46 and very stubborn. It simply irritates me when other people tell me how I should live or feel about life. It's weird really for people to insist they know more about our lives and capabilities than we do. Not that I object to people trying to help others to recover but- they need to want that help. They need to be willing to follow that advice. Many people here are all out of fight to do that.

 

[Intoxicated]

Death isn't relief. Releif is a feeling.

That depends on what meaning of "relief" you pick.

1. [uncountable, singular] the feeling of happiness that you have when something unpleasant stops or does not happen
2. [uncountable] the act of removing or reducing pain, worry, etc.

relief noun - Definition, pictures, pronunciation and usage notes | Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary at OxfordLearnersDictionaries.com

Definition of relief noun in Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary. Meaning, pronunciation, picture, example sentences, grammar, usage notes, synonyms and more.

www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com

1. a feeling of happiness that something unpleasant has not happened or has ended
2. Relief also means the reduction or end of pain

relief

1. a feeling of happiness that something unpleasant has not happened or has…

dictionary.cambridge.org

So telling about relief as the end of suffering without feeling any happiness is correct. It's also worth noting that gaining the ability to use a good method of suicide may actually offer relief in the first sense as well, since it gives us the feeling of more control over our life. Worrying about the future where we'd have to live no matter what can produce anxiety and depression; the possibility to end the game at any moment helps alleviate these negative mental states.

 

[25menrunning]

Just out of curiosity, when you people comment on thinking about the family are those of us without support systems just supposed to kill ourselves on the spot reading things like that or what? Why is it always the same line about living for others?

its just something to consider. It shouldn't be the only reason, it's not enough, and it's miserable to feel that you're living for others, although I have done that for years. But it's too significant to ignore. I know people that have lost people to suicide. It destroys them.

a quote I found online:

It's a suicidal person's fantasy that if you actually did it, suddenly you'd get all the love people have been withholding.

In reality, the people who are selfish and don't care about you when you're alive will not change their characters. People will make drama about your death in ways that put the attention on them, and they will control the narrative. They will tell the story of why you died and what you were like when you were alive, and you won't be around to counter it. The people who bullied or abused you won't have a sudden shock of guilt and repent--they will blame everyone but themselves, they will put the blame on you yourself, they will get to be the main character and the real victim and it will all be about them. It will be a free-for-all feeding frenzy of sympathy and attention for everyone around you, the people who are still alive, and no one will care what you think anymore because you're not here and you will never give them anything ever again.

The people who genuinely loved you will feel crushed and abandoned by your choice. Either they will just hurt immensely and have to leave you in the past to survive themselves, or they might follow you into death--suicide is unfortunately contagious. You won't have a place of honor in the world with them either. You'll be a wound. Someone they can't bear to think of often, or for very long, because they want that wound to close.

The world is always about the people who are alive living in it, not the people who are gone. The second panel doesn't even exist. You don't get a placeholder in the world. Your story is over. There is only a footnote in other people's stories. Only their lives, their drama, their main character moments. Absolutely nothing is about you once you die, it is only about how others cope with your absence, and even that only in small percentage--mostly it is simply about them and has less and less and less to do with you at all. And if they weren't nice to you when you were alive, they won't be very nice in your wake either.

The ego that cares so much if someone thinks you're annoying cannot fully imagine its own dissolution, its own impermanence. Suicide is not a way to become liked.

Maybe this is the real blackpill or whatever, but anyone I think I'd have to literally die to make them think better of me wouldn't actually think better of me even if I did die.

I'm sorry you don't have a support network. I will say, I don't know if this applies to you, but it probably does: it will still hugely affect others if you die. If anyone has ever known you, if you interact with people at all regularly even if they're not your 'friends', it *will* affect them significantly (though to varying degrees depending on the person). Ignoring this fact is living in willful ignorance of the realities of suicide. You can decide to kill yourself anyway, many do, and I can't stop you, nor will I judge. I took am a suicidal motherfucker who has attempted many a time and may or may not end up dying this way anyways. But you can't ignore the reality of the situation.

That depends on what meaning of "relief" you pick.

1. [uncountable, singular] the feeling of happiness that you have when something unpleasant stops or does not happen
2. [uncountable] the act of removing or reducing pain, worry, etc.

relief noun - Definition, pictures, pronunciation and usage notes | Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary at OxfordLearnersDictionaries.com

Definition of relief noun in Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary. Meaning, pronunciation, picture, example sentences, grammar, usage notes, synonyms and more.

www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com

1. a feeling of happiness that something unpleasant has not happened or has ended
2. Relief also means the reduction or end of pain

relief

1. a feeling of happiness that something unpleasant has not happened or has…

dictionary.cambridge.org

So telling about relief as the end of suffering without feeling any happiness is correct. It's also worth noting that gaining the ability to use a good method of suicide may actually offer relief in the first sense as well, since it gives us the feeling of more control over our life. Worrying about the future where we'd have to live no matter what can produce anxiety and depression; the possibility to end the game at any moment helps alleviate these negative mental states.

But these definitions are dependant on a person being alive. Pretty much everything we do or think of is based on the living, life, of course, centres being alive. Almost no one can truly understand the idea of nothingness, we create abstractions of death because Life is all we know, and because it provides comfort in one way or another. But defining relief as the 'reduction or end of pain' is based on a person there to experience that reduction or end. If there is no one there to experience that relief, I don't think its 'relief'. Again, I say this without judgement, and as a suicidal person myself. But one should not forget this.

You kind of answered your own question later on... The choice to actually suicide is a complex one. Many people here are trying to hold on so as not to hurt loved ones (me included.) Some are extremely restricted as to what they can get hold of- if they live with their families and have no independent income. Also, if they live in places that heavily restrict peaceful methods. They may struggle as to where to commit even. Do they really want to die at home and be found by family members? Do they have the money for a hotel? Many are simply crippled by fear of attempting.

Can I throw a question back at you please? Why do people on the one hand- insist suicide is the wrong choice and describe in detail why: The chances of it going wrong, the unknown element of the afterlife, the impact it has on loved ones. Then on the other, they seem to get cross when people on a suicide forum are here 'too long' and seem to be faffing about- rather than making the decision to just do it. Couldn't it be that they do still feel like they want to suicide but- they are struggling with all the issues you have acknowledged?

Of course- if you actually believe there are people here who are bad actors and who are only here to encourage others to suicide- you should report them.

The other side to it is the concept of 'recovery'. I get the impression you feel like people should fall into two camps. Either they want to die- they come here to find out how and then commit in a short time period. Or- they initially want to die, realise they can't- for whatever reason so- commit to recovery instead.

You're surely not taking into account how people actually feel about life though. How long they have been fighting to 'recover'. People here- especially in the suicide section may have lost the actual will to live. When 'recovery' to a better life doesn't even appeal- where do they go from there?

I think you need to bear in mind that a fair number of people don't dip in and out of ideation- it can be constant for them. They may simply not even have this desire to 'get better'. They may not even believe in it. 'Get better' into what? Wage slavery for the rest of their lives? What should they be looking forward to? What if they simply don't want the same things you do?

As to why people come here. I imagine- it's because we can be honest here- without hearing the usual platitudes/ frustration we hear everywhere else. We may be trying to spare our friends and family the worry and sadness of realising how we feel. Yet, we may still feel the need for human connection. It can feel massively isolating to feel suicidal and know that you can't express that side of yourself to the vast majority of people.

I do agree- that it may not be the healthiest of environments. It is a pretty negative echochamber. But still- people may be rejecting the more forced positive arenas because they have found that they don't help them.

Personally- I'm 46 and very stubborn. It simply irritates me when other people tell me how I should live or feel about life. It's weird really for people to insist they know more about our lives and capabilities than we do. Not that I object to people trying to help others to recover but- they need to want that help. They need to be willing to follow that advice. Many people here are all out of fight to do that.

yeah, I was really trying to pitch the question without seeming like I'm encouraging people, and you're right there that I did not do that perfectly. I understand all of these points, once again, I have lived many of these things much more then someone on the internet knowing little about me would realize. I actually agree with these statements and mentioned why for the majority of people (though again, I'd argue that it's still not the healthiest space to do hanging out/anything but the 'intention' of the site (which you can argue as to whether or not that's good) on). There are places, though hard to find, that are not as public, nor negative echo chambers, nor completely discouraging of speaking of suicidality in all it's forms (ex. the alternatives to suicide framework, which I find is a much more reasonable and compassionate thing).

The goal is not to force someone to stay
alive from moment to moment: the goal
is to support someone in creating a
meaningful life they want to live.
Not killing one's self is simply
a side effect of that.

I think a lot of the problem here is I do have specific people in mind, but I don't want this to be a call-out post. Unless things are incredibly blatant (and sometimes even then), mods really don't do much about it. So 'just report' doesn't really work. Some people here *don't* seem to be super suicidal or struggling themselves, but do a lot of 'resource providing'. And some people seem to only go and comment how terrible life is and how death is the only solution for years. That concerns me. We are on the internet, after all. This place is not as safe as it feels.

Hy evry1 jst kll urslves or mve on amirite /s

*purgatry hs Ntered th/ cht*

Smetmes havng a plce 2 liv out thse feelngs = wht kps ppl alve -- sasu fr mny ppl = copng mechnsm & whle fr sme ppl = mght b maldaptve copng mechnsm = @ lst 1 whch brngs ppl sme cmmunty & plce fr feelng herd

Slf am obvsly of belif tht recvry cn b pssble fr lts of ppl bcse tht = reasn tht slf spnt all tht tme makng recvry mterials fr membrs shld thy strt leanng tht wy or feelng strng enuf & brve enuf & rdy 2 try 2 liv agn bt @ th/ sme tme ppl d/ nt nd 2 b lecturd 2 b/ sme1 wh/ hs bn on th/ ste fr 1 mnth

Slf stuatn = nt a cse tht slf cn strt thnkng hppy thghts or 'tryn2 chnge slf stuatn' bcse slf stuatn = b-ing trappd in a permnnt st8 of terrr & 'atypicl dssociatn' as psychtrst sd whch cannt b fixd b/ therpy

S/ if u hve all th/ answrs slf lk 4ward 2 u makng th/ mst of all of th/ recvry rsourcs @ ur dsposl untl u r redy 2 mve on & join bck wth th/ shny hppy ppl agn

Also ffs ppl stp targtng specfc membrs wh/ r suffrng as mch as evry els & fcus on livng ur own lfe


Sme1 mght nd 2 transl8 ths

It's funny. Being here (after lurking for a long time) is the only real place where people see me as less suicidal then normal, as having the answers, as being able to join the 'happy people'. It's interesting.

I think I've said this already but it seems to be forgotten. My 'reasons to live' listed are not reasons why for you specifically, death is a bad decision. Nor is it the point of the post. I've thought about these things a lot. I have reasons to live, and to die. Sometimes things are just so fucking bad and unchangeable that, even knowing all these things, I still think death is the right option. This site has helped me gain access to ways of then doing that that aren't as dangerous if survived as how my last attempt went. But I still think these points should be known and understood by anyone seriously considering suicide. It's not a simple choice, and ignoring the reality of death and suicide is dangerously naive.

I'm here because speaking about my feelings honestly gets me whisked away into the ward where I'm traumatized, beaten, potentially sexually harrassed or attempted to be assaulted, etc. the mental health system is a trap and there is a limit to "free speech". It's comforting to read people feeling the same way and knowing I'm not alone or to make friends who feel the same way without getting too attached to them, and just speak my mind. I've tried many times and I plan to do it this year when im finally living (semi) alone, you have to remember a lot of people who attempt often are highly monitored after, they may be forced to move back home or live with roomates.

I'm posting this from a dimmed phone screen with my mom sleeping in a bed next to mine because she didn't trust me to stay at our house during her trip. I can't attempt right now and I'm not left alone during the summer when I'm home from university, and previously I've had resident assistants check on me or have had roommates. Life only gets worse when you attempt and if people care about you they'll never leave you alone again. In the ward I couldn't even pee with the door closed due to policies. Different people have different outlets and ways of coping. I don't advise people on how to die and I try to show that I'm listening to them, I try to chime in and say how I'm feeling and that I hear them, that's what most people on the forum are looking for. Humans are social creatures. And what's good or bad isn't for you to say. I don't get triggered from talking about suicide but some might. I feel comforted from being able to talk about my feelings with suicidal ideation/ about morbid topics without the threat of being sent to the ward or even court ordered/ put in handcuffs again.

there are better spaces, but they're hard to find. Spaces less toxic then this, that won't call the police on you. I understand you being here. This post was not meant as judgement, at least not to the majority of people. I honestly don't even know it's main point, I just thought I'd share some thoughts I was having. I'm sorry you are suffering so much.

 

[DerBopo]

Why do people insist its selfish to kill oneself?
Yeah it effects other but so does everything. It effects people if you say hi or just look at them funny. Existing effects people and so does not existing. How it effects you is up to you. Thats just life. You cant control your circumstances.
In the end you're just having a feeling about a decision someone else made.
So be mad be sad be whatever. It isnt everyone's duty to care.

 

[byec560]

There's a lot of people here discussing sources and methods. A lot of people commenting, a lot of people dooming. I just don't really understand. Yes, there aren't really any posts here that explicitly and super easily tell you how to access certain chemicals or medications. But there's enough that with some digging you can certainly find it. As well as how to do things, and info on more common methods as well (not substances). So many people here will post stuff talking about how to kill yourself for years.

Some people (I'm assuming you know who I'm talking about) comment on nearly every popular post about how terrible life is and how much suicide is the solution and death is relief (which I'm against the premise of but whatever. Keep in mind I'm quite suicidal and I completely understand why someone would attempt, but the idea of death as relief or something nebulous or beautiful is just false which I think is sad and also dangerous).

Why are we telling people how to kill themselves? Why are these people who are so pro-suicide, still living and on this website? I suspect for many it's the kind of passive bridging active suicidality I and many others have struggled with for years. It's comforting to be able to bask in suicidality. It provides relief on some level.

But I will not assist people in killing themselves. There's honestly a lot of really good arguments not to. The impact on loved ones, or really anyone that knows you, is absolutely insane. Which isn't enough, but should sure as hell be highly considered. Everyone will die anyways. That's where a lot of existential dread comes from. Whether you kill yourself, spend your dies on this site, or live completely 'normally', death comes for us all. Infinite nothingness, a blip of something, and then more infinite nothingness. To shorten that blip is interesting. But the end is the same either way. Which can be relief. Suicide attempts often fail, and ruin peoples lives. Luckily, life can do it for you. And life WILL do it for you, whether you want it to or not. You just have to wait.

Death isn't relief. Releif is a feeling. You feel the pressure in your head, or pain around your neck, or excruciating stomach pain, or dizziness, and then...

End of sentence. That's it.

Life has potential to improve, for you to want to live it. You won't know if you end it. It also has potential to get worse, which is a lot of why I want to die. And it's exhausting. But logically, it's usually the wrong choice. Because the potential to improve or bring joy or be glad you lived outweighs the other options, since you'll get both eventually. Even if life gets worse, it'll end one day. Either option will take your life. Only one option leaves the door open for a blip of happiness.

I also don't want to encourage others to die, because selfish or not, it would weigh on me. If I feel like someone died because of me, that's haunting as fuck.




Now. I'm still suicidal. There's a good chance this is how I'll die. But I thought I'd mention why I think it's still the illogical decision in many cases, even if I give myself permission to be illogical to escape this pain and fatigue and uncertainty. Don't make a permanent decision you don't fully understand. And more of us then we'd like to think don't truly understand death.



That was a long tangent. My original question is why there are so many 'regulars' here. You'd assume by nature of the site they'd ether recover and leave or... something else. Doesn't take away from any pain or seriousness of this that they haven't yet. And again, for many, it makes sense. Though this isn't the healthiest nor safest place to vent. It's just weird to me.

If you want to improve, try to limit your time on this site. It has it's merits, notably being able to talk about being suicidal without people freaking so much. But it's not really good for you. Get what you need out of it, then limit your time. Bad actors are a concern too. That's my advice.

"Everyone will die anyways"
Okay? If the difference is so inconsequential that I can just wait it out, surely it is not so large a difference I can't just die now.

"People are telling people to kill themselves"
Some do, yeah. But I think most are just trying to advise people not to kill themselves in stupid ways and cause themselves needless pain. If you're here in the first place, chances are that you're already pretty far gone. Why would I hit them with the type of insipid preaching they're probably here to avoid in the first place? They might not want to hear it, but a lot of people here are teenagers who will honestly grow out of it in all likelihood. If so, I'm sure they'll walk that path with or without my involvement. Others are in the shit so deep that hitting them with the "Erm, I don't know you or literally anything about your life, but haven't you considered that other people love really reeeeally much?" is bound to not work so well.

"Why are there regulars?"
Where else would you have a chance to vent about wanting to kill yourself regularly? Not exactly a mood maker conversation topic irl.

 

[Aphid]

"Everyone will die anyways"
Okay? If the difference is so inconsequential that I can just wait it out, surely it is not so large a difference I can't just die now.

"People are telling people to kill themselves"
Some do, yeah. But I think most are just trying to advise people not to kill themselves in stupid ways and cause themselves needless pain. If you're here in the first place, chances are that you're already pretty far gone. Why would I hit them with the type of insipid preaching they're probably here to avoid in the first place? They might not want to hear it, but a lot of people here are teenagers who will honestly grow out of it in all likelihood. If so, I'm sure they'll walk that path with or without my involvement. Others are in the shit so deep that hitting them with the "Erm, I don't know you or literally anything about your life, but haven't you considered that other people love really reeeeally much?" is bound to not work so well.

"Why are there regulars?"
Where else would you have a chance to vent about wanting to kill yourself regularly? Not exactly a mood maker conversation topic irl.

Exactly this.

 

[Dot]

"People are telling people to kill themselves"

Tbf tht genrlly ds nt happn & n.e1 wh/ ds wll b punshd/or kickd

 

[Lamentice]

but the idea of death as relief or something nebulous or beautiful is just false which I think is sad and also dangerous).

So, actually no, it's not false, you can't say anything definitive about death and certainly not in relation to other people's circumstances and perspectives that require context you don't have.

This community is pro-choice, if you're not then it's really not a fit for you.

 

[25menrunning]

So, actually no, it's not false, you can't say anything definitive about death and certainly not in relation to other people's circumstances and perspectives that require context you don't have.

This community is pro-choice, if you're not then it's really not a fit for you.

once again not really hearing what I'm saying. The point of my posts is thoughts I was having and putting them out there. I think it's not great to be here for people. I think the 'in-between' fucks with you. I worry about it being a public site. There's also some perspectives on death and suicide and reasons not to that I gave that I think are frequently not given because so much 'suicide prevention' is just 'uhhh don't do it, duh, it gets better, duh, we'll lock you up anyways if you really try'. It's an important perspective to give imo.


All I can speak of is myself. I don't know your life, you don't know mine. But there are surely similarities. So I thought sharing thoughts I was having might be good. I don't have a clear option to be frank with you. I'm stuck in ambivilance to some level. I mean, I'm buying SN. But yk.