Discussion Should there be an age limit for CTB?

[_Kaira_]

I don't think people should be told they can't CTB just because of age. An 18 year old who has only known abuse and negligence their whole life could be just as depressed as a 60 year old that feels like they've lived all life can offer. Everyone's mental tolerance and pain cannot be compared easily, nor should it be.

 

[Nymph]

Not really, I feel like no matter the age if youre done with life you should be able to do whatever you want. I've read that a lot of people considered suicide as young kids which is so tragic and really breaks my heart but-whatever you gotta do to escape the pain. Some people are just born into such shitty circumstances it's painful to even think about...

 

[NightmareTour]

yeah, cuz being raped isnt bad. its just a thing. whatever

People who aren't conventionally attractive get raped too. Many studies have shown that physical attractiveness has no impact on the chances of being a victim of sexual assault.

 

[TheEndisNear121200]

People who aren't conventionally attractive get raped too. Many studies have shown that physical attractiveness has no impact on the chances of being a victim of sexual assault.

This, there is nothing that suggests that attractive women are more likely to get raped

 

[Deleted member 94]

Sorry for bringing the thread back on the rails, why is age of 50 a requirement for exit international.

 

[_Kaira_]

yeah, cuz being raped isnt bad. its just a thing. whatever

This, there is nothing that suggests that attractive women are more likely to get raped

I don't think they were saying attractive women have a higher chance, more so that there IS a chance. After all...rape is bad, ugly or pretty.

But yes, this thread isn't about attractiveness or rape.

 

[TheEndisNear121200]

I don't think they were saying attractive women have a higher chance, more so that there IS a chance. After all...rape is bad, ugly or pretty.

But yes, this thread isn't about attractiveness or rape.

Well she made it seem that it's one of the bad problems that is specific to attractive women which isn't true.

I do agree that this thread has gone off rails

 

[_Kaira_]

Well she made it seem that it's one of the bad problems that is specific to attractive women which isn't true.

I do agree that this thread has gone off rails

Perhaps a bit of miscommunication on both ends?

 

[Amumu]

You put two sensitive subjects in one thread and it gives something explosive.
I shouldn't have elaborated, sorry.

 

[allym101]

yeah, cuz being raped isnt bad. its just a thing. whatever

Are you just ignoring everything I'm saying and only picking out the parts that suit you? "UGLY" PEOPLE GET RAPED TOO!! Jesus Christ. Get off of your pedestal. I was once attractive too okay! Yes getting hit on unwontedly is quite bothersome and uncomfortable however I'd prefer that any day over be shoved into a pile of sludge while getting laughed at. Life is hard regardless of what you look like, but being ugly just adds a whole nother layer to an already shitty life so please just stop.

You put two sensitive subjects in one thread and it gives something explosive.
I shouldn't have elaborated, sorry.

Don't apologize. You just stated an opinion and it got out of hand, you shouldn't feel any guilt

 

[Buffy5120]

I don't think there should be any minimum age to suicide but rather it should be based on circumstances. There are plenty of situations where a very young children are suffering horrendous conditions both physical and psychological that will never change because of the circumstances they were born into. Who am I to tell them that they are too young to relieve themselves of the suffering that there is no freedom from until they reach a certain age?

Theres also scans to prove that these kids are actually really suffering spect scans or fmri actually do show if the child/teen/pre-adult is suffering from severe depression, ptsd, anxiety, kind of like how mri shows physical ailments etc. this proves they are not lying and are really suffering and kind of separates different cases that can separate and show who's case to take more seriously into consideration thats why i say age doesn't matter like i said before they should go through trial phases try natural approach (vitamins supplementation and food, if if that doesnt work medication) therapy would obviously be maditory as to try to approve...try this minimum 2 years maximum 4-5 years if no approvement i dont see why you should let them suffer...but i do understand the point that the brain usually stops developing at 24-26 so i mean my idea could be totally wrong but then we are just being like Dignitas where they are biased against young people and think we dont suffer enough as much as 60-80 year olds so we dont deserve any relief....

 

[Ghost2211]

Theres also scans to prove that these kids are actually really suffering spect scans or fmri actually do show if the child/teen/pre-adult is suffering from severe depression, ptsd, anxiety, kind of like how mri shows physical ailments etc. this proves they are not lying and are really suffering and kind of separates different cases that can separate and show who's case to take more seriously into consideration thats why i say age doesn't matter like i said before they should go through trial phases try natural approach (vitamins supplementation and food, if if that doesnt work medication) therapy would obviously be maditory as to try to approve...try this minimum 2 years maximum 4-5 years if no approvement i dont see why you should let them suffer...but i do understand the point that the brain usually stops developing at 24-26 so i mean my idea could be totally wrong but then we are just being like Dignitas where they are biased against young people and think we dont suffer enough as much as 60-80 year olds so we dont deserve any relief....

Well, One example would be a child in a Third World country whose family has no access to food. The child is slowly starving to death, and has rickets among other diseases and ailments. Nobody is going to take the child out of that environment they will stay there until they die slowly or they grow up in a horrific health and living conditions. I don't think such a child should be subjected to testing or other people determining if their suffering is severe enough. Suffering is subjective and sometimes it is very clear when things are just not going to get better.

 

[Worndown]

Despair known no age.

 

[dropdeadfred]

My first experience with knowing someone CTB was a 12 year old classmate, sweet as could be. Shotgun. While I felt intense sadness over the situation, I was pro-choice even then. It was his decision & his decision only- he had his reasons. Who was I to judge? I can only hope that he felt no regret before he pulled the trigger- that's the part that makes me sad to think about.

 

[Gnip]

Katelyn Nicole Davis was a very obviously mature 12 years old when her second and final successful CTB attempt was carried out on livestream four years ago (on December 30, 2016). Katie was born into a hellish situation, and may actually have been raped on camera by her stepfather (allegedly erased by her prostitute junkie mother). Her maternal grandfather had blown his brains out in the derelict trailer where she lived, and her aunt Daphne Parish Coley, who admitted being a long time methamphetamine junkie (to reporter Tyler Jett of the Chattanooga Times Free Press in a June 2017 article) died at age 39 in July 2017 (just one month after that newspaper article), outliving her niece by about seven months (and Daphne Coley was actually one of the nicer people in Katelyn's mother's immediate family).

What Katie said on camera hours before her widely viewed suicide was an objective and rational assessment that 2017 was at best going to be no better for her than 2016 had been. Her mother was making her raise her toddler half siblings, she said on camera she was hungry all the time (and getting fed cheap junk food shit in her squalid trailer), her biological father had returned from military combat in the middle east with PTSD and wanted nothing to do with her (possibly because her bitch mother and her family had also legally shut him out of his daughter's life, though we'll never know), she had gotten bullied in school, and had been placed on antidepressant medication after an initial CTB overdose attempt and hospitalization, antidepressants which she stated on camera wasn't working very well for her, and her toddler half siblings had also been sexually molested by their father according to her.

Committing suicide was not just a way for her to spare herself additional suffering, it shown a light on her mother and stepfather and half siblings. Her mother was subsequently busted for drugs and her remaining children taken away.

Given the history of Katie's family and her life situation, there is simply no suggestion that killing herself was a mistake, but a tragic necessity. If she'd waited another year, she might have wound up getting raped and impregnated the way she was being forced to go. She was looking into running away up north from her home in Georgia with a trucker to Massachusetts. We don't need much of an imagination to know what might have actually happened if she'd done that.

At a mature and wise age 12, I think she made the correct decision, faced with a situation where there was no suggestion of a better future except for no future at all.

There's an old saying that there's no such thing as brutal honesty. There's honesty and there's brutality. I think Katie was being honest about her situation and decided to end it.

 

[Throwmyselfaway]

You know I would say yes you shouldn't ctb before you are x years. However I have read and seen videos of teens ctbing for reasons that I couldn't say I didn't blame them one bit. I'm not advocating for children or teens to ctb at all.

 

[Buffy5120]

Well, One example would be a child in a Third World country whose family has no access to food. The child is slowly starving to death, and has rickets among other diseases and ailments. Nobody is going to take the child out of that environment they will stay there until they die slowly or they grow up in a horrific health and living conditions. I don't think such a child should be subjected to testing or other people determining if their suffering is severe enough. Suffering is subjective and sometimes it is very clear when things are just not going to get better.

Im saying for mental illness where you cant really detect if a person if really suffering or not with their own eyes or other modern testings, (ct mri , blood tests) which would be done only through a spect scan and im only trying to be fair so we can proof to those bastards we arent lying and theres no way to get better because you know how society is they say oh well they didn't try hard enough this would shut them up because they actually did try hard enough and went through the scans and trials (vitamins, medications, therapy) this would proof they actually did try everything they could and still had no relief obviously if it were me I would say no matter what age everyone should have that right but we all know we have to proof that we are suffering to the greatest extent to be allowed to ctb peacefully my example would be a way that would proof such but yeah if there were a program like this is should be free and accessible all over the world obviously this will never happen but yeah i understand what ur saying too

 

[Avril]

18-21. It still depends on the situation.

 

[Life_and_Death]

@allym101 do yourself a fucking favour. You're the one saying "pretty people are privilaged and ugly people have it worse" if anything you're the one that's ignoring shit. I specifically said SHIT HAPPENS TO EVERYONE NO MATTER WHAT! I'm defending EVERYONE you're saying nothing happens to pretty people and all I'm saying is that it fucking does. You really should be looking in a damn mirror because unlike you I never shit doesn't happen

 

[TooConscious]

There's so many factors come into this it's not possible to discuss.
From personal experience I was suicidal with the basis of my personality fully developed by 18 and over ten years on I've dragged out just to suffer because of mental SI and fear of the evil scumbags witchcraft occult causing me to survive and be stuck paralysed etc. If I had succeeded at 18 then I'd have saved becoming aware of the clandestines feeding off our suffering and think I'd be much better off.

I feel like a life addict now.
Like I'm an alcoholic, I know that drink does nothing for me, that I was wrapped in fear of change, causes nothing but suffering. Yet I still drank.
Maybe one day soon I'll kick the life addiction.
I love the pettiness of some of you... Turning this thread into a "ugly or pretty have it harder" debate.
Its not a competition.
Only people like Joseph Merrick or Marilyn Monroe are qualified to comment. Why be so petty. You sound like angst kids.
Society keeps us all in envy of 'the beautiful people' but it's average person who watches the shows and buys the magazines keeping it this way. If it was on billboards. WE'RE ALL ORGANIC MATTER, WE ALL HAVE PIMPLES, MISHAPES ETC.
I find this bickering offensive as I know two people here and four in person (one is a very very good friend) who have severe disabilities since childhood, and they would never try to hurt people's feelings over their personal opinions, you selfish *****

 

[hoping to lose hope]

You will only get biased answers from presently suicidal people IMO.

 

[Amumu]

All right, then let's say I take the entire responsibility of being a selfish cunt,
and everyone is chummy after that. Does everyone feel good?
Love you all.

 

[allym101]

You will only get biased answers from presently suicidal people IMO.

Yeah that's true, hopefully some people trying to recover will give an opinion though? Who knows.

All right, then let's say I take the entire responsibility of being a selfish cunt,
and everyone is chummy after that. Does everyone feel good?
Love you all.

No stop it please, don't give yourself that label. There's just a lot of misunderstanding and it has nothing to do with you

 

[TheEndisNear121200]

Katelyn Nicole Davis was a very obviously mature 12 years old when her second and final successful CTB attempt was carried out on livestream four years ago (on December 30, 2016). Katie was born into a hellish situation, and may actually have been raped on camera by her stepfather (allegedly erased by her prostitute junkie mother). Her maternal grandfather had blown his brains out in the derelict trailer where she lived, and her aunt Daphne Parish Coley, who admitted being a long time methamphetamine junkie (to reporter Tyler Jett of the Chattanooga Times Free Press in a June 2017 article) died at age 39 in July 2017 (just one month after that newspaper article), outliving her niece by about seven months (and Daphne Coley was actually one of the nicer people in Katelyn's mother's immediate family).

What Katie said on camera hours before her widely viewed suicide was an objective and rational assessment that 2017 was at best going to be no better for her than 2016 had been. Her mother was making her raise her toddler half siblings, she said on camera she was hungry all the time (and getting fed cheap junk food shit in her squalid trailer), her biological father had returned from military combat in the middle east with PTSD and wanted nothing to do with her (possibly because her bitch mother and her family had also legally shut him out of his daughter's life, though we'll never know), she had gotten bullied in school, and had been placed on antidepressant medication after an initial CTB overdose attempt and hospitalization, antidepressants which she stated on camera wasn't working very well for her, and her toddler half siblings had also been sexually molested by their father according to her.

Committing suicide was not just a way for her to spare herself additional suffering, it shown a light on her mother and stepfather and half siblings. Her mother was subsequently busted for drugs and her remaining children taken away.

Given the history of Katie's family and her life situation, there is simply no suggestion that killing herself was a mistake, but a tragic necessity. If she'd waited another year, she might have wound up getting raped and impregnated the way she was being forced to go. She was looking into running away up north from her home in Georgia with a trucker to Massachusetts. We don't need much of an imagination to know what might have actually happened if she'd done that.

At a mature and wise age 12, I think she made the correct decision, faced with a situation where there was no suggestion of a better future except for no future at all.

There's an old saying that there's no such thing as brutal honesty. There's honesty and there's brutality. I think Katie was being honest about her situation and decided to end it.

This girls story is so tragic, she didn't even stand a chance with the environement she was brought into. Life is so unfair :(

 

[Gnip]

This girls story is so tragic, she didn't even stand a chance with the environment she was brought into. Life is so unfair :(

Katie was born into a situation so rotten that a real case can be made she'd have been better off not being born at all. Schools are absolutely worthless if they can't rescue people like her from hellish home lives and family existences.

She provided ample footage of herself displaying varying personalities. (In some clips, she's made herself up like a doll with Dollar Store makeup, in others she's wearing no makeup and displaying her acne flawed complexion. In some clips, her pupils are like pinholes, in others, her pupils are large as saucers, as if she'd dropped Belladonna in her eyes. She alternatively expresses extreme compassion and care with acute and scything, incisive cynicism. Our world has no future because it has destroyed people like her.)

What a person looks like doesn't matter if they are surrounded by abusive predatory bullies, and are tormented by a storm between their ears. She was a brilliant, kind, gentle person who needed the best support and care, but instead got about the worst the United States has to offer.

The late psychologist Wayne Dyer claimed that fairness does not exist in cautioning his readers not to fall for the "justice trap" in his 1976 bestselling book, "Your Erroneous Zones." Later, in 1980's landmark monster bestseller "Feeling Good: The New Mood Therapy," cognitive behavioral therapy psychiatrist Dave Burns took Dyer to task for this, describing Dyer's extremist view against the concept of "fairness" and "justice" as a cognitive distortion, but with the passage of over 40 years time, it appears Dyer may have been right and Burns and the CBT philosophy of mental problems being cause by twisted thinking as wrong, that the best facilitator of mental well being is indeed to take it for granted that "fairness "and "justice" do not and cannot exist, and that mental self empowerment may indeed stem from acceptance of that idea as fact, that the desire for fairness and justice are delusional, wishful thinking.

"Your Erroneous Zones" and "Pulling Your Own Strings" are in my library (I bought them in my mid teens), but I never actually read these books by Wayne Dyer. Maybe I should. I gave instructional cognitive behavioral literature a fair chance to fail decisively, then my first exposure to Prozac proved VASTLY superior to everything published on cognitive behavioral therapy theory.

 

[Niftypoint124]

Please take with a grain of salt (badum*tiss) but - 25, with certain allowances made for extenuating circumstances.

 

[TheEndisNear121200]

Katie was born into a situation so rotten that a real case can be made she'd have been better off not being born at all. Schools are absolutely worthless if they can't rescue people like her from hellish home lives and family existences.

She provided ample footage of herself displaying varying personalities. (In some clips, she's made herself up like a doll with Dollar Store makeup, in others she's wearing no makeup and displaying her acne flawed complexion. In some clips, her pupils are like pinholes, in others, her pupils are large as saucers, as if she'd dropped Belladonna in her eyes. She alternatively expresses extreme compassion and care with acute and scything, incisive cynicism. Our world has no future because it has destroyed people like her.)

What a person looks like doesn't matter if they are surrounded by abusive predatory bullies, and are tormented by a storm between their ears. She was a brilliant, kind, gentle person who needed the best support and care, but instead got about the worst the United States has to offer.

The late psychologist Wayne Dyer claimed that fairness does not exist in cautioning his readers not to fall for the "justice trap" in his 1976 bestselling book, "Your Erroneous Zones." Later, in 1980's landmark monster bestseller "Feeling Good: The New Mood Therapy," cognitive behavioral therapy psychiatrist Dave Burns took Dyer to task for this, describing Dyer's extremist view against the concept of "fairness" and "justice" as a cognitive distortion, but with the passage of over 40 years time, it appears Dyer may have been right and Burns and the CBT philosophy of mental problems being cause by twisted thinking as wrong, that the best facilitator of mental well being is indeed to take it for granted that "fairness "and "justice" do not and cannot exist, and that mental self empowerment may indeed stem from acceptance of that idea as fact, that the desire for fairness and justice are delusional, wishful thinking.

"Your Erroneous Zones" and "Pulling Your Own Strings" are in my library (I bought them in my mid teens), but I never actually read these books by Wayne Dyer. Maybe I should. I gave instructional cognitive behavioral literature a fair chance to fail decisively, then my first exposure to Prozac proved VASTLY superior to everything published on cognitive behavioral therapy theory.

Your opinion on CBT is very interesting, I also had a similar problem with it when I first started it as treatment. I always found that the thought that mental problems are caused by cognitive distortions is not always true

 

[Aeathelina]

Legally 21 and up or underage if you're diagnosed with a terminal disease that I'll just end up with you sure fire dying in five years.
Obviously mental care should be evaluated and debated but ultimately it should be left to the adult.

 

[FatalSystemError591]

I don't think there should be an age limit, but a situational evaluation for each person. If there is a way to help, you're given it and seen through correctly to help you out of those feelings, but if there really is no way of helping you then you are allowed to let go.

 

[Gnip]

Your opinion on CBT is very interesting, I also had a similar problem with it when I first started it as treatment. I always found that the thought that mental problems are caused by cognitive distortions is not always true

Burns popularized CBT to the general public at just right moment in retrospect. The 1975 film adaptation of "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest" had demonized electroconvulsive therapy in a way so effective that Hollyweird has never stopped stigmatizing it. (Tim Burton's 2012 movie version of Dark Shadows was also guilty of depicting ECT in a derogatory way.) Prozac would not be approved by the FDA until December 1987, after which that SSRI immediately took off in sales and usage, further spurred by the success of Peter Kramer's 1992 runaway bestseller, "Listening to Prozac" (which captured my early 1997 first response to Prozac perfectly).

Dave Burns is an extremely talented individual therapist, and "Feeling Good" was a brilliantly written and easily followed manual which triggered other books for the public by his mentors on CBT like Gary Emery and Tim Beck through the 1980's, but even Burns admitted the limitations of CBT at the conclusion of "Feeling Good" with his mention of "The search for the black bile," physical causes for depression beyond the reach of any psychotherapeutic theory.

I'm satisfied Burns honestly did the best he knew how to with what was available to him in 1980, and his first book was structurally so sound and clear that study support groups have followed it in the decades since, but I believe the now long established acceptance and prominence of CBT (even approved and covered by federal Medicare) is much more a reflection of "Feeling Good" and the individual who wrote it than any unique merits of CBT itself as a theory of mental health. Burns was simply a better writer and personality than Beck, Emery or Albert Ellis (with Ellis' own development of Rational Emotive Therapy).

Within the context of Behavior Modification Therapy, the late Debora Rothman Phillips was likewise a vastly superior therapist and author to the creator of BMT, Joseph Wolpe (who near the end of his life, pathetically pimped out his reputation in a foolish endorsement of Francine Shapiro's EMDR for a peer reviewed clinical journal article which gave EMDR completely unearned credibility in the professional community, launching Shapiro on a totally unearned career as a mental health "expert" with no formally recognized academic credentials in the field aside from an article credited to a possibly senile Wolpe as author), but Phillips (a sharp and incisive clincian who can be seen describing her methodology on YouTube which was made when she was dying) wasn't a prolific author of lengthy books. She published "How to Fall Out of Love" in 1978, and within those mere 135 pages is Behavior Modification Therapy (including the key method of thought stopping) in a nutshell. As David Burns surpassed Aaron Beck in 1980, so did Debora Phillips surpass Joseph Wolpe in 1978. (But Burns took hundreds of pages to do for CBT in 1980 what Phillips did with just 135 pages for BMT in 1978, a publication she and co author Robert Judd revised and expanded to 192 pages in 1985.)

Legally 21 and up or underage if you're diagnosed with a terminal disease that I'll just end up with you sure fire dying in five years.
Obviously mental care should be evaluated and debated but ultimately it should be left to the adult.

Adult? See below...

I don't think there should be an age limit, but a situational evaluation for each person. If there is a way to help, you're given it and seen through correctly to help you out of those feelings, but if there really is no way of helping you then you are allowed to let go.

Katelyn Nicole Davis had NO adult advocate anywhere, and was acting on far more than her subjective feelings when she hung herself. Whether consciously or intuitively (and if you agree that stupid can't be fixed, then you might also agree that intelligence and wisdom are native and inborne), she saw and evaluated what the immediate future held for her and her half sibling toddlers if she didn't do something drastically heroic (and let's be honest about it, if she had not hung herself in front of her camera live for the entire world to see, it would have all gotten swept under the rug by the police authorities in her area and her half siblings might well be dead today, as their meth junkie aunt Daphne who genuinely loved them and was their main babysitter aside from Katie herself actually did die at age 39 less than seven months later).

Several months after Katie hung herself, her mother was busted for drug possession. For all we know, the very fact her mother's alive today may be owed to what her daughter did.
(Any deity that would dare consign Katie to "Hell" or any semblance of purgatory for that act is completely unworthy of any kind of worship or other acknowledgement from anybody!)