What’s more selfish: life or death?

[Persona3]

What's more selfish bringing a child into the world without their consent or ending your own life afterward even if it would devastate your parents and loved ones?

 

[X-sanguinate86]

the first one

 

[starboy2k]

first one for sure lmaooo

 

[TwistedNightmares]

Definitely the first one.

 

[CentreMid]

The former. One of my cousins told me she was pregnant, and my first thought was to pity the child she'll bring into the world. Of course, I told her I was happy for her just to keep the peace, but the news really just filled me with dread and disgust

As for the latter, sometimes selfishness is a good thing. How many selfish decisions have our parents and loved ones made, and how many times were we expected to simply put up with said decisions? Are we not allowed to do the same? Would it be fair to us to stay alive and suffer in order to prevent these people from simply feeling bad?

 

[badatparties]

The first one is definitely more selfish. You really don't owe anyone staying alive because it will hurt their feelings.

 

[starboy2k]

As for the latter, sometimes selfishness is a good thing. How many selfish decisions have our parents and loved ones made, and how many times were we expected to simply put up with said decisions? Are we not allowed to do the same? Would it be fair to us to stay alive and suffer in order to prevent these people from simply feeling bad?

 

[Forever Sleep]

If we just looked at it rationally- what's more selfish: Beginning an experiment with a sentient being with conditions that include sometimes unpreventable hardships- like illness, bereavement, abuse, sexual assault, financial ruin, bullying etc. Or- being the poor creature that has been experimented on and insisting you don't want to put up with anymore?

I believe it's cruel simply to put a sentient being in a position where they aren't at all free to make choices. Because they know those choices could well hurt the people that brought them here.

From the moment we get here- we're taught to comply to our parent's needs. Toilet training, regular sleeping patterns, education, work, domestic duties, romantic partners and- God phorbid we show them up in some way. Some parents won't even tolerate their children being the sexuality or gender they actually are!

Even if we're lucky to have been born to more progressive thinking parents- the environment they brought us in to may not be. Let's say they are incredibly understanding. They'll support us in our wish to die. Is assisted suicide even legal where they live? Will we meet the strict regulations to qualify for it? Many people won't. So- then what? Will they assist us in sourcing/ buying the nembutal or, a firearm say? Probably not- they could go to jail! So- even if they are very supportive of whatever we want- they've knowingly brought us into a world where we are largely trapped. I reckon even parents who will let their children suicide won't likely help them. In which case- we're stuck with brutal and unreliable methods.

To even insist and guilt trip a person who desperately wants to leave into staying is incredibly cruel- surely? To call them selfish in itself is so incredibly unfair. It's like we've been manufactured to be an emotional aid or crutch for other people. Perhaps that's fine for a robot who can't feel things themselves and, has no needs of their own but- we are sentient beings- brimming with feelings and needs.

We're ironically even taught that our needs and likes/ desires are all important. 'Follow your dreams'. We have such an emphasis placed on this idea of autonomy and an individuals right to make their own path in the world... unless that desire and path leads directly to self destruction. Oddly though- we will accept the scenic route more. We'll allow people to use crutches like alcohol, fast food and drugs to try and make it through- because hey- most people are guilty of that. Even if they will ultimately kill us.

I just think it's bullshit. You can't bring/ force a sentient being into an unfair and rigged/ corrupt game and then reasonably expect to throw a hissy fit when they say they want to quit.

 

[throw-me-away]

Why not both?

I was selfish when I didn't prevent bringing a conscious being into this life and I will be selfish when I leave that person.

That said, I don't think having children is always selfish. For a lot of people, yes even today, it's not a choice. A lot of people actually don't know they can live a good life without having children or that this is even a choice they can make. A lot of people don't have access to contraception or abortion. A lot of people become pregnant as a result of sexual assault. etc etc It's as judgemental to say having children is always selfish as it is to call all suicide selfish.

 

[FuneralCry]

All that's selfish to me is imposing this dreadful, torturous existence, I'll always see it as a tragedy to force life into this horrific reality where there is no limit as to how much one can be tortured.

I'll always see it as a deeply undesirable burden to exist and I wish I never suffered more than anything, I see it as so selfish to impose this completely unnecessary existence that just causes suffering all for the sake of it and problems there were never a need for and deny the option to cease existing peacefully making existence into a prison where the suffering and torture of existing seen as to force and prolong no matter what, those who force others to suffer are selfish, the right to die is a human right.

 

[Persona3]

If the right to die is considered a human right, then why is it censored and treated as a taboo everywhere? Escapism is a natural response in a superficial, mentally ill society. Insanity is the new sanity.
Perhaps the real art lies in not being defeated by the insanity that comes with awakening and increased awareness. Being both unaware and aware is a form of insanity choose your poison guys

At least you don't have to face it alone. I'm glad we crossed paths here. I found this place just yesterday, and it's a strange coincidence.
Maybe not the ideal place to make friendships, but better than Discord for being understood.

All that's selfish to me is imposing this dreadful, torturous existence, I'll always see it as a tragedy to force life into this horrific reality where there is no limit as to how much one can be tortured.

I'll always see it as a deeply undesirable burden to exist and I wish I never suffered more than anything, I see it as so selfish to impose this completely unnecessary existence that just causes suffering all for the sake of it and problems there were never a need for and deny the option to cease existing peacefully making existence into a prison where the suffering and torture of existing seen as to force and prolong no matter what, those who force others to suffer are selfish, the right to die is a human right.

If we just looked at it rationally- what's more selfish: Beginning an experiment with a sentient being with conditions that include sometimes unpreventable hardships- like illness, bereavement, abuse, sexual assault, financial ruin, bullying etc. Or- being the poor creature that has been experimented on and insisting you don't want to put up with anymore?

I believe it's cruel simply to put a sentient being in a position where they aren't at all free to make choices. Because they know those choices could well hurt the people that brought them here.

From the moment we get here- we're taught to comply to our parent's needs. Toilet training, regular sleeping patterns, education, work, domestic duties, romantic partners and- God phorbid we show them up in some way. Some parents won't even tolerate their children being the sexuality or gender they actually are!

Even if we're lucky to have been born to more progressive thinking parents- the environment they brought us in to may not be. Let's say they are incredibly understanding. They'll support us in our wish to die. Is assisted suicide even legal where they live? Will we meet the strict regulations to qualify for it? Many people won't. So- then what? Will they assist us in sourcing/ buying the nembutal or, a firearm say? Probably not- they could go to jail! So- even if they are very supportive of whatever we want- they've knowingly brought us into a world where we are largely trapped. I reckon even parents who will let their children suicide won't likely help them. In which case- we're stuck with brutal and unreliable methods.

To even insist and guilt trip a person who desperately wants to leave into staying is incredibly cruel- surely? To call them selfish in itself is so incredibly unfair. It's like we've been manufactured to be an emotional aid or crutch for other people. Perhaps that's fine for a robot who can't feel things themselves and, has no needs of their own but- we are sentient beings- brimming with feelings and needs.

We're ironically even taught that our needs and likes/ desires are all important. 'Follow your dreams'. We have such an emphasis placed on this idea of autonomy and an individuals right to make their own path in the world... unless that desire and path leads directly to self destruction. Oddly though- we will accept the scenic route more. We'll allow people to use crutches like alcohol, fast food and drugs to try and make it through- because hey- most people are guilty of that. Even if they will ultimately kill us.

I just think it's bullshit. You can't bring/ force a sentient being into an unfair and rigged/ corrupt game and then reasonably expect to throw a hissy fit when they say they want to quit.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I got some valuable insights from it!

 

[Liebestod]

Life can only be perpetuated by selfish or insane animals.

 

[Zanmato]

Having a child it's selfish.
For example, I'm here because one of my parents wanted 2 childs.
And now, I have to deal with... Everything.
And it's just so bad.
When I see young parents, with their little children, sometimes I feel sorry for them, for being born.

At the same time, the thought of "leaving" the people, even if they're a few, that somehow care about me... I don't know.

I just wish I weren't born in the first place