Venting The essence of life is suffering; are we born just to find a job?

[Matchaaa]

Sometimes I wonder what the point of being born into this world really is. Are we just meant to study, get a degree, find a job, and then keep working until we die? It often feels like the entire purpose of education is simply to prepare us for employment. We work hard to complete our coursework so we can earn a good degree, and the reason for getting a good degree is to secure a better job in the future—mainly to avoid being trapped in low-paying work that limits our lives.

From the moment a person is born, they are exposed to countless risks and threats: diseases, natural disasters, accidents, injuries, and so on. In many ways, life seems to be a continuous effort to avoid suffering until the day we die. Even the pursuit of happiness often feels like an attempt to escape pain or discomfort, and happiness itself tends to be fleeting.

If life is fundamentally full of suffering, it sometimes makes me wonder whether it would have been better not to be born at all.
What frustrates me even more is that assisted dying is illegal in many countries, and even talking about suicide is often treated as taboo. I find that deeply frustrating. Trying to survive in this world while constantly struggling to avoid suffering can feel extremely difficult, especially when none of us chose to be born in the first place.
Many parents complain that their children do not understand how hard life is. But if life is already so difficult to sustain, I can't help but wonder why people choose to have children in the first place. From the moment they are born, children are thrown into this high-pressure environment.

And when people grow up and eventually feel that they no longer want to live, they often find that assisted dying is only allowed for those with terminal illnesses—or not legal at all. As a result, the only accessible ways to end one's life often involve violent or traumatic methods.

In many cases, the decision to have children seems to be driven by personal desires. It can feel as if new lives are brought into a world full of suffering for reasons that are ultimately self-interested.

 

[itsgone2]

It's pointless. I don't mind work but that's it? And twice now I will lose jobs I loved because it was sold? It's hopeless.
As a parent I didn't think the world was this cruel then. It wasn't, but I feel stupid anyway. It does seem wrong now.
I'm a failure but the world changed too.

 

[Pluto]

 

[fedup1982]

Fuck the breeders

 

[Hvergelmir]

Are we just meant to study, get a degree, find a job, and then keep working until we die?

That's just the most prevalent strategy to accumulate resources. There are plenty of alternatives, but employment is the best by far, for most people.

Free people are free, which is fundamentally incompatible with having intrinsic meaning. In a free country, you don't have a designated function. Instead you choose what to do, which is good, but provides little in terms of guidance.

 

[yotaka]

Sometimes I wonder what the point of being born into this world really is. Are we just meant to study, get a degree, find a job, and then keep working until we die? It often feels like the entire purpose of education is simply to prepare us for employment. We work hard to complete our coursework so we can earn a good degree, and the reason for getting a good degree is to secure a better job in the future—mainly to avoid being trapped in low-paying work that limits our lives.

From the moment a person is born, they are exposed to countless risks and threats: diseases, natural disasters, accidents, injuries, and so on. In many ways, life seems to be a continuous effort to avoid suffering until the day we die. Even the pursuit of happiness often feels like an attempt to escape pain or discomfort, and happiness itself tends to be fleeting.

If life is fundamentally full of suffering, it sometimes makes me wonder whether it would have been better not to be born at all.
What frustrates me even more is that assisted dying is illegal in many countries, and even talking about suicide is often treated as taboo. I find that deeply frustrating. Trying to survive in this world while constantly struggling to avoid suffering can feel extremely difficult, especially when none of us chose to be born in the first place.
Many parents complain that their children do not understand how hard life is. But if life is already so difficult to sustain, I can't help but wonder why people choose to have children in the first place. From the moment they are born, children are thrown into this high-pressure environment.

And when people grow up and eventually feel that they no longer want to live, they often find that assisted dying is only allowed for those with terminal illnesses—or not legal at all. As a result, the only accessible ways to end one's life often involve violent or traumatic methods.

In many cases, the decision to have children seems to be driven by personal desires. It can feel as if new lives are brought into a world full of suffering for reasons that are ultimately self-interested.

This forum is the only place where I've found people who think like me when it comes to these things. It's refreshing in a way, but also disheartening that we're all suffering so much.

I think there are ways in which life could be fulfilling despite the absurdity and pain of existence. The world I want to live in is one in which the thousands of years of social and technological development we've gone through are used in such a way that we all have our basic needs met and are free to explore through science, art, philosophy, or whatever else we find meaningful. But, as if bare reality isn't horrible enough already, we're forced into demeaning, pointless jobs just to get by. And not only that, but we're also forced to act like it's what we want—anybody who's tried getting a job lately knows what I mean: you practically have to beg to be allowed to do something you don't want to do in the first place.

It's pointless. I don't mind work but that's it? And twice now I will lose jobs I loved because it was sold? It's hopeless.
As a parent I didn't think the world was this cruel then. It wasn't, but I feel stupid anyway. It does seem wrong now.
I'm a failure but the world changed too.

I hope you aren't too hard on yourself. The world really has gotten so much worse—or at least the cruelty of the world has become much more apparent. We're all just doing what we can.

 

[Matchaaa]

That's just the most prevalent strategy to accumulate resources. There are plenty of alternatives, but employment is the best by far, for most people.

Free people are free, which is fundamentally incompatible with having intrinsic meaning. In a free country, you don't have a designated function. Instead you choose what to do, which is good, but provides little in terms of guidance.

I also think the meaning of life is something we create for ourselves. The funny thing is that a lot of people work mainly just to survive, and in many cases that means they barely have the time or energy to explore what actually gives their life meaning. Of course it's not true for everyone, but it does seem pretty common lol.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I think would- be parents mainly have children to satisfy their own needs. Because they wanted to experience that love/ connection/ need for them. Because it maybe gave them a purpose in life. Because they wanted sex and were careless. Maybe because they were influenced by the societal/ familial pressure to create offspring.

Ultimately though- unless the parents are very rich or, confident they will qualify for benefits- there surely has to be an assumption that the child will grow up to work and support itself.

I suppose- the majority of parents will already be doing that themselves so (weirdly- as I see it,) I imagine they don't view that as an unreasonable ask.

I think we receive an education- not only to prepare us for work. I think there is the hope we will be passionate about a subject and, willingly pursue it. That's the ideal I suppose- that we are able to pursue something we find interesting. Then it isn't quite so much of a chore. I wonder how often that realistically happens though.

For me, it did actually happen and I'm still miserable! Really- the main reason I want out is- I'm so tired of having the pressure to work and earn enough to sustain a life I don't even want to begin with. It's so utterly illogical and stupid if it were based purely on reasoning. Why would anyone pay vast sums for something they don't actually want?

 

[Matchaaa]

I think would- be parents mainly have children to satisfy their own needs. Because they wanted to experience that love/ connection/ need for them. Because it maybe gave them a purpose in life. Because they wanted sex and were careless. Maybe because they were influenced by the societal/ familial pressure to create offspring.

Ultimately though- unless the parents are very rich or, confident they will qualify for benefits- there surely has to be an assumption that the child will grow up to work and support itself.

I suppose- the majority of parents will already be doing that themselves so (weirdly- as I see it,) I imagine they don't view that as an unreasonable ask.

I think we receive an education- not only to prepare us for work. I think there is the hope we will be passionate about a subject and, willingly pursue it. That's the ideal I suppose- that we are able to pursue something we find interesting. Then it isn't quite so much of a chore. I wonder how often that realistically happens though.

For me, it did actually happen and I'm still miserable! Really- the main reason I want out is- I'm so tired of having the pressure to work and earn enough to sustain a life I don't even want to begin with. It's so utterly illogical and stupid if it were based purely on reasoning. Why would anyone pay vast sums for something they don't actually want?

I agree with your point of view. It feels like the birth of life is like a robbery. Being born is not a choice; it is the parents who choose to bring their children into the world. Originally, there would be nothing wrong with a child wanting to escape, but almost every society and every parent insists on forcing a child into existence—whether for "emotional value" or financial gain. It always feels as though this is simply shifting the burden of responsibility onto someone who never chose to be born in the first place. (I apologize if my views have offended anyone.)

 

[Riu]

This is just how the world works. It is what it is. I don't agree with it at all, and my message to this world and its reality, is my death. I reject this mess.

 

[itsgone2]

For me, it did actually happen and I'm still miserable! Really- the main reason I want out is- I'm so tired of having the pressure to work and earn enough to sustain a life I don't even want to begin with. It's so utterly illogical and stupid if it were based purely on reasoning. Why would anyone pay vast sums for something they don't actually want?

Exactly. Life is nothing but a series of bills. Food and shelter. Utilities. Transportation. Clothing. Cell phone. Computer. Tablet. Things that break. Kids and pets if you choose them. Every day there's something. You just work constantly.

And now work has decided to do mass layoffs. Inflation constantly showing up in new places. Then you see people benefitting from fraud.

It's too much. Being poor sucks.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I agree with your point of view. It feels like the birth of life is like a robbery. Being born is not a choice; it is the parents who choose to bring their children into the world. Originally, there would be nothing wrong with a child wanting to escape, but almost every society and every parent insists on forcing a child into existence—whether for "emotional value" or financial gain. It always feels as though this is simply shifting the burden of responsibility onto someone who never chose to be born in the first place. (I apologize if my views have offended anyone.)

I think parents probably do have a rose tinted view also- to be fair. So- I tend to think the emotional value is skewed towards the positive. As in- picture all the happy memories we will create together and, even if times are tough, we'll have each other. My Dad is fairly classic: love conquers all mentality.

I imagine their hormones likely make them kind of crazy too. I sometimes wonder if love is a kind of madness so that they don't necessarily acknowledge anymore- the nuts and bolts reality of what this world is actually like. It seems to become- whatever happens, we'll all cope as one big happy family. I suppose enough do cope reasonably too so- they likely assume they will too.

Even more strangely- to my mind. I don't think they thoroughly consider that they may not even be able to be there for their children necessarily. My Mum was diagnosed with cancer at the same time she found out she was pregnant. I really don't know what wild optimism gripped both my parents that everything would work out ok.

 

[Matchaaa]

I think parents probably do have a rose tinted view also- to be fair. So- I tend to think the emotional value is skewed towards the positive. As in- picture all the happy memories we will create together and, even if times are tough, we'll have each other. My Dad is fairly classic: love conquers all mentality.

I imagine their hormones likely make them kind of crazy too. I sometimes wonder if love is a kind of madness so that they don't necessarily acknowledge anymore- the nuts and bolts reality of what this world is actually like. It seems to become- whatever happens, we'll all cope as one big happy family. I suppose enough do cope reasonably too so- they likely assume they will too.

Even more strangely- to my mind. I don't think they thoroughly consider that they may not even be able to be there for their children necessarily. My Mum was diagnosed with cancer at the same time she found out she was pregnant. I really don't know what wild optimism gripped both my parents that everything would work out ok.

I was really sorry to hear about what you and your mother went through.
Sometimes I wonder if the survivor bias and overestimation of the power of love that we see in the older generation might also be a form of psychological defense mechanism. My parents have a similar mindset; they always believe that as long as there is love and a willingness to work hard, there's no obstacle that can't be overcome. So perhaps it's because the older generation holds this belief that they chose to have children.

 

[Shadows From Hell]

I only have 8 more days of work, then I'm gone. It would be 12 days, but I'm using up my vacation time next week, so only 8 more work days for me.. I was going to leave in a few days, but since Mom died in early February, the family is holding a celebration of life for her. So my leave date is now set for April 7th. As bad as it sounds, her passing has made it so much easier for me to just up and go.

I have enough cash saved up to last several months while I bike ride and go hiking to my final spot, wherever that may be.

Also, we are born and trained to work, that's what school is for. Then we work long ass hours just to give the government part of our paycheck every week? Fuck that. I've given them enough of my cash.

 

[Spite]

These are the kinds of things I question and think to myself almost daily. What even is the point of it all? Grow up, work, then die? That can't be it. But somehow, it is. The endless wageslavery most of us have to go through just adds to that overwhelming feeling of pointlessness. I can't believe this is it. I can't believe I was thrust into this existence and now I have to fend for myself and avoid all the horrible shit. What utter nonsense. Perhaps more unfathomable to me is how some people are just completely docile and say things like "life is beautiful!", "life is a gift!" and "I'm so grateful to be alive!" Such sentiments are incomprehensible to me. I simply cannot understand how anyone could look at this dog-eat-dog, brutally unfair, cruel, merciless, unforgiving, fucked up world and proclaim that it's "beautiful". Whatever you say Norman lol.

 

[Matchaaa]

I only have 8 more days of work, then I'm gone. It would be 12 days, but I'm using up my vacation time next week, so only 8 more work days for me.. I was going to leave in a few days, but since Mom died in early February, the family is holding a celebration of life for her. So my leave date is now set for April 7th. As bad as it sounds, her passing has made it so much easier for me to just up and go.

I have enough cash saved up to last several months while I bike ride and go hiking to my final spot, wherever that may be.

Also, we are born and trained to work, that's what school is for. Then we work long ass hours just to give the government part of our paycheck every week? Fuck that. I've given them enough of my cash.

I am so sorry for your loss.
I hope these months of hiking bring you some inner peace and comfort along the way. whatever decision you make.

 

[2s00n]

Sometimes I wonder what the point of being born into this world really is. Are we just meant to study, get a degree, find a job, and then keep working until we die? It often feels like the entire purpose of education is simply to prepare us for employment. We work hard to complete our coursework so we can earn a good degree, and the reason for getting a good degree is to secure a better job in the future—mainly to avoid being trapped in low-paying work that limits our lives.

From the moment a person is born, they are exposed to countless risks and threats: diseases, natural disasters, accidents, injuries, and so on. In many ways, life seems to be a continuous effort to avoid suffering until the day we die. Even the pursuit of happiness often feels like an attempt to escape pain or discomfort, and happiness itself tends to be fleeting.

If life is fundamentally full of suffering, it sometimes makes me wonder whether it would have been better not to be born at all.
What frustrates me even more is that assisted dying is illegal in many countries, and even talking about suicide is often treated as taboo. I find that deeply frustrating. Trying to survive in this world while constantly struggling to avoid suffering can feel extremely difficult, especially when none of us chose to be born in the first place.
Many parents complain that their children do not understand how hard life is. But if life is already so difficult to sustain, I can't help but wonder why people choose to have children in the first place. From the moment they are born, children are thrown into this high-pressure environment.

And when people grow up and eventually feel that they no longer want to live, they often find that assisted dying is only allowed for those with terminal illnesses—or not legal at all. As a result, the only accessible ways to end one's life often involve violent or traumatic methods.

In many cases, the decision to have children seems to be driven by personal desires. It can feel as if new lives are brought into a world full of suffering for reasons that are ultimately self-interested.

You define life as a "continuous effort to avoid suffering", yet the very act of you posting this—using a complex device to access a global network—proves you are operating with a massive metabolic surplus.

True biological suffering is a low-resolution state of immediate threat. What you are describing—the frustration of "finding a job" or the "taboo" of suicide—is semantic suffering. You've used your access to literature and technology to condition your own internal morals to the point where existential dissonance is mislabeled as a terminal flaw in the universe's plumbing.

You call reproduction a "robbery," yet you are actively spending the stolen goods on an hour-long philosophical self-optimization task. If life were the "brutal jungle" you claim, you wouldn't have the luxury to wonder what the "point" is; you'd be too busy finding water. Is it possible your 'suffering' is actually just the byproduct of a high-performance brain with too much free time and not enough actual threats to process?

 

[yotaka]

You define life as a "continuous effort to avoid suffering", yet the very act of you posting this—using a complex device to access a global network—proves you are operating with a massive metabolic surplus.

True biological suffering is a low-resolution state of immediate threat. What you are describing—the frustration of "finding a job" or the "taboo" of suicide—is semantic suffering. You've used your access to literature and technology to condition your own internal morals to the point where existential dissonance is mislabeled as a terminal flaw in the universe's plumbing.

You call reproduction a "robbery," yet you are actively spending the stolen goods on an hour-long philosophical self-optimization task. If life were the "brutal jungle" you claim, you wouldn't have the luxury to wonder what the "point" is; you'd be too busy finding water. Is it possible your 'suffering' is actually just the byproduct of a high-performance brain with too much free time and not enough actual threats to process?

What are you trying to get at here? That, because we operate at a metabolic surplus, we aren't really suffering?

 

[2s00n]

What are you trying to get at here? That, because we operate at a metabolic surplus, we aren't really suffering?

The 'Reality' of the sensation is not in question; the Value you assign to it is. You are treating a metabolic signal as an absolute moral truth, which is just another layer of the same programming you claim to reject.

 

[Matchaaa]

You define life as a "continuous effort to avoid suffering", yet the very act of you posting this—using a complex device to access a global network—proves you are operating with a massive metabolic surplus.

True biological suffering is a low-resolution state of immediate threat. What you are describing—the frustration of "finding a job" or the "taboo" of suicide—is semantic suffering. You've used your access to literature and technology to condition your own internal morals to the point where existential dissonance is mislabeled as a terminal flaw in the universe's plumbing.

You call reproduction a "robbery," yet you are actively spending the stolen goods on an hour-long philosophical self-optimization task. If life were the "brutal jungle" you claim, you wouldn't have the luxury to wonder what the "point" is; you'd be too busy finding water. Is it possible your 'suffering' is actually just the byproduct of a high-performance brain with too much free time and not enough actual threats to process?

To be honest, I was a little shocked the first time I read your writing, lol, but I want to say that there are many different reasons for suffering, and simply existing can be a deeply agonizing experience in itself. Every kind of suffering is real, and there's no need to compare them. Existence in this world is not determined by an individual's free will, so there is indeed a great deal of "involuntariness" to it.

 

[2s00n]

To be honest, I was a little shocked the first time I read your writing, lol, but I want to say that there are many different reasons for suffering, and simply existing can be a deeply agonizing experience in itself. Every kind of suffering is real, and there's no need to compare them. Existence in this world is not determined by an individual's free will, so there is indeed a great deal of "involuntariness" to it.

Your defense of the "realness" of suffering assumes a continuous observer that is being involuntarily tortured. But look at the actual plumbing: you are dying in every moment.

The version of you that began writing your post is functionally gone. Most of your life's data is discarded by your hardware every 24 hours. The only thing that "persists" is the interpretive attractor—the specific story you tell yourself to link these flickering moments of consciousness into a tragedy.

You are currently choosing to use your metabolic surplus to fund a "suffering narrative" that treats your state as a permanent, static truth. But in the wider possibility space, you are just a temporary configuration of cells that has been conditioned by a shared attractor (this forum) to view its own existence as a "robbery."

What happens to your "agonizing experience"when you realize that the "me" who is suffering is just a poetic artifact of your own high-resolution memory? If the "observer" is flickering and discontinuous, then the "suffering" has no place to land. It is just noise in a system that is trying to find a signal.

 

[yotaka]

The 'Reality' of the sensation is not in question; the Value you assign to it is. You are treating a metabolic signal as an absolute moral truth, which is just another layer of the same programming you claim to reject.

My dude. What the fuck are you talking about? At what point did I claim to reject any "programming"?

 

[Matchaaa]

Your defense of the "realness" of suffering assumes a continuous observer that is being involuntarily tortured. But look at the actual plumbing: you are dying in every moment.

The version of you that began writing your post is functionally gone. Most of your life's data is discarded by your hardware every 24 hours. The only thing that "persists" is the interpretive attractor—the specific story you tell yourself to link these flickering moments of consciousness into a tragedy.

You are currently choosing to use your metabolic surplus to fund a "suffering narrative" that treats your state as a permanent, static truth. But in the wider possibility space, you are just a temporary configuration of cells that has been conditioned by a shared attractor (this forum) to view its own existence as a "robbery."

What happens to your "agonizing experience"when you realize that the "me" who is suffering is just a poetic artifact of your own high-resolution memory? If the "observer" is flickering and discontinuous, then the "suffering" has no place to land. It is just noise in a system that is trying to find a signal.

Hey, if someone stepped on a nail, would you tell them that since they died the moment they stepped on it, their pain/suffering isn't real?

 

[2s00n]

Hey, if someone stepped on a nail, would you tell them that since they died the moment they stepped on it, their pain/suffering isn't real?

Your nail analogy is a category error. A nail in the foot is a direct, low-level hardware alert. It requires no "interpretation" to be functional.

However, your original lament was about degrees, jobs, and social taboos. Those are not "nails." Those are symbolic constructs that require an immense amount of high-level cognitive modeling to even perceive as "suffering."

By equating "Economic Boredom" with "Physical Trauma," you are attempting to give your semantic narrative a biological authority it hasn't earned. The nail doesn't care about your "Narrative." But your 'suffering' only exists because of the narrative. You are still funding the script and then complaining about the price of the ticket.

 

[intr0verse]

You are currently choosing to use your metabolic surplus to fund a "suffering narrative" that treats your state as a permanent, static truth. But in the wider possibility space, you are just a temporary configuration of cells that has been conditioned by a shared attractor (this forum) to view its own existence as a "robbery."

Are you saying my suffering is just a choice and that this forum is the reason i persist in this choice of seeing my life as miserable?