Story Surviving 14 of my attempts in a week

[aufrechtm7]

It proves that God is able to create or put humans in a state (shifted, transformed, or whatever else) to have a meaningful and blissful relationship with him without the ability to "rape children" which leaves no logical explanation as to why God insists that it is possible on Earth while he just watches.

An explanation is that our life on Earth can be considered some kind of test and that suffering is an unfortunate fact of reality that also happens to make people's faith stronger.

The further you go down the logic tree, the less coherent it gets and the more unfalsifiable the claims become. Religion by design cannot be followed perfectly and any moral failure, contradiction, or break in logic is explained away by bending interpretations of text or in some cases completely disregarding it.

And this is important to say because even though I'm not religious (I'm more of a deist or theist) I think people should be allowed to believe in whatever they hold true if it isn't at the expense of others. I'm steelmanning it here because I've been down that path already and the best answer for everything is simply having faith.

 

[Sunshine]

An explanation is that our life on Earth can be considered some kind of test and that suffering is an unfortunate fact of reality that also happens to make people's faith stronger.

The further you go down the logic tree, the less coherent it gets and the more unfalsifiable the claims become. Religion by design cannot be followed perfectly and any moral failure, contradiction, or break in logic is explained away by bending interpretations of text or in some cases completely disregarding it.

And this is important to say because even though I'm not religious (I'm more of a deist or theist) I think people should be allowed to believe in whatever they hold true if it isn't at the expense of others. I'm steelmanning it here because I've been down that path already and the best answer for everything is simply having faith.

But the test part falls apart because most of these religions believe that babies go to Heaven immediately without ever being tested. And those babies have meaningful relationships with God in Heaven, allegedly. So what explanation is left for God to allow the most horrible crap happen on Earth while just watching passively? I don't mind your perspective at all. I also think people should be allowed to believe what they want.

 

[aufrechtm7]

But the test part falls apart because most of these religions believe that babies go to Heaven immediately without ever being tested. And those babies have meaningful relationships with God in Heaven, allegedly. So what explanation is left for God to allow the most horrible crap happen on Earth while just watching passively? I don't mind your perspective at all. I also think people should be allowed to believe what they want.

And that's what's frustrating about it all…it doesn't actually fall apart because it relies on very circular reasoning that's supported by faith.

 

[Cyagangy]

Bullshit. If God is omnipotent and created the universe, he could simply decide what free will entails and define it differently. Even Christians and Muslims believe they have free will in Heaven WITHOUT being able to rape children, odd how that works, huh?

We do? I have never heard of the concept that in our own heavens we get free will. No one really knows besides interpretations of man. However, it's a given man is flawed. God could, that's up to interpretation to but I assume it as freedom of action but not freedom of consequence. You can deny his works or him or his laws and live as you want. After all everyone is there own little judge. I prefer not to judge myself or atleast try not to, but that's the gift of morality isn't it? It allows us to draw a line in what we believe is okay and not okay.

there's no scientific evidence for any "free will"

What?

 

[fadedghost]

We do? I have never heard of the concept that in our own heavens we get free will. No one really knows besides interpretations of man. However, it's a given man is flawed. God could, that's up to interpretation to but I assume it as freedom of action but not freedom of consequence. You can deny his works or him or his laws and live as you want. After all everyone is there own little judge. I prefer not to judge myself or atleast try not to, but that's the gift of morality isn't it? It allows us to draw a line in what we believe is okay and not okay.

What?

There is no indication that somehow humans magically were going to have several options and somehow use magic to switch between the options.

Humans evaluate situations, is door 1 better, door 2 better, door 3 better, but the evaluation itself takes places in the human brain adhering to the laws of physics. Because the human brain is too complex to mathematically model doesn't mean the math goes away, and just because the decisions are made with 3d neuronal analysis doesn't the decision could be anything.

If you see a bowl of fruit or piece of chicken and you are thinking of what to eat, the decision on what to eat will be made in a certain way according to the laws of physics. Brains are not a special region that lacks rules of physical properties and therefore, the outcome is predictable.

I am sorry if you don't understand this. Many advanced physicists, and I not one, don't believe in any gods, i do not believe in them either. But even if you believe, free will makes no logical sense because in human thinking there's always antecedent causes and processing in the brain leading to outcomes. The outcome is already "destined" or whatever you want to say. If you have to believe in magical beings in the sky who control the universe, at least become a Calvinist.

 

[Cyagangy]

There is no indication that somehow humans magically were going to have several options and somehow use magic to switch between the options.

Humans evaluate situations, is door 1 better, door 2 better, door 3 better, but the evaluation itself takes places in the human brain adhering to the laws of physics. Because the human brain is too complex to mathematically model doesn't mean the math goes away, and just because the decisions are made with 3d neuronal analysis doesn't the decision could be anything.

If you see a bowl of fruit or piece of chicken and you are thinking of what to eat, the decision on what to eat will be made in a certain way according to the laws of physics. Brains are not a special region that lacks rules of physical properties and therefore, the outcome is predictable.

I am sorry if you don't understand this. Many advanced physicists, and I not one, don't believe in any gods, i do not believe in them either. But even if you believe, free will makes no logical sense because in human thinking there's always antecedent causes and processing in the brain leading to outcomes. The outcome is already "destined" or whatever you want to say. If you have to believe in magical beings in the sky who control the universe, at least become a Calvinist.

I suppose you have a valid point there. Free will is limited to our knowledge.