Pegasos controversy (suicide business)

[unluckysadness]

Here are some articles about Pegasus Switzerland. In fact, I contacted them some weeks ago by e-mail and they told me that my family should be aware of my decision. They also said that conditions are very strict because I'm "young" (43 yo). I don't know what to think about it but it seems to be a huge business...

L'association Pegasos ravive la controverse sur les procédures de l'assistance au suicide en Suisse | RTS

Des familles britanniques accusent l'association suisse Pegasos d'avoir aidé leurs proches à mourir sans réelle justification médicale. Basée dans le canton de Soleure, l'organisation défend sa légalité et son éthique, mais ses méthodes ravivent le débat sur les limites de l'aide au suicide en...

www.rts.ch

https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/this-womans-vacation-was-a-secret-switzerland-trip-for-assisted-suicide-9215608

Ce village suisse sert de refuge pour le suicide assisté

Des personnes du monde entier viennent recourir au suicide assisté dans un hameau du canton de Soleure. Des habitants s'indignent de la situation, tandis que la commune et le canton cherchent des solutions pragmatiques.

www.blick.ch

 

[nobodycaresaboutme]

Thank you for sharing information with us. I believe we need to accept a certain level of commercialization of assisted dying or euthanasia while it may look like a kind of "merchants of death". No one will pay for our peaceful deaths even after the right to die is largely appreciated. On the other hand people with financial issues (and suicidal intention due to this) should not be forced to resort to potentially painful and unreliable suicide attempts. If the right to die for everyone were to be acknowledged, we may have euthanasia clinics out there (then prolifers set fire on them) and get cheaper services.

Two of those articles are based on pro-life narratives and the family members who were obviously not supportive of their family and are now barking up the wrong tree. I hope people start to dismantle and debunk that blame shifting and virtuous victimhood signaling.

Alastair souffrait de douleurs abdominales inexpliquées, mais il n'était pas en fin de vie. "Sa vie n'était pas parfaite, mais il avait encore une vie que des milliers de personnes auraient été heureuses d'avoir", ajoute sa mère.

"No one's saying she wasn't feeling pain. Not pain good enough to go and end her life. She had a lot more life to live and give," Ms Royal said. "She was just in a dark time. She wasn't terminally ill or, in my opinion, ill enough to go and do this and leave our family behind like that."

This is a comment in SaSu for that notorious NYT article.

They write this shit because they don't understand - totally out of ignorance. This is the only place I've ever found people who understand me and don't judge me. Most news is just a rag anyway. most of this shit comes from parents whose children have committed suicide and their guilt is so overwhelming they can't take responsibility for it they have to blame someone else.

I'm sorry you are in the debilitating condition where assisted dying may be justifiable. May you recover from the disease in some way otherwise get the bus ticket.

 

[unluckysadness]

I'm sorry you are in the debilitating condition where assisted dying may be justifiable. May you recover from the disease in some way otherwise get the bus ticket.

Thanks for your kind words. Yes I'm in a debilitating painful condition. The disease is incurable so I need to wait for the bus driver (I have my ticket). In fact, most of us don't need to be "assisted" for committing suicide. They can just give us N (we know how to drink it). But pro-lifers seems to prefere violent and painful methods for us...

 

[AreWeWinning]

Thanks for your kind words. Yes I'm in a debilitating painful condition. The disease is incurable so I need to wait for the bus driver (I have my ticket). In fact, most of us don't need to be "assisted" for committing suicide. They can just give us N (we know how to drink it). But pro-lifers seems to prefere violent and painful methods for us...

So basically, you're hating on the fact that euthanasia is a business, people make money from it, and that it's expensive, but at the end of the day, it's all because of pro-lifers. If suicide weren't stigmatised and criminalised, it would be more easily available, and it wouldn't be such a big business. These companies do profit from it, but if they didn't, they wouldn't be able to keep the whole operation going. I'm sure the legal fees are high and there's a lot of bureaucracy around it that costs a lot.

 

[elenaboo25]

It is a business in the same way as hospitals are businesses. Unfortunately, in our capitalist society, nothing is truly free.

 

[ifihadnever]

Ironically, I had a similar experience when I reached out to them a few weeks back. Told I was young (also in my 40s) and they wanted a family member to vouch for the situation. My parents are both long dead and I don't have any other family that I'm close too. Not sure the uncle i saw 20 years ago would be able to vouch for my current situation. Why wasn't my word or medical records enough. I felt punished for losing my parents when I was young and now being very isolated and now having family. We don't all have 'happy family homes'. Made me feel more rubbish than before contacting them. Rant over. But I understand where you are coming from

 

[58Alice85]

If they actually deliver the service why shouldnt they be paid?
I am more pissed off at the fact around half of the things doctors do are straight up scams or placebo.

 

[penguinl0v3s]

I do think this is concerning. I believe healthcare, including euthanasia should be government funded. We should not normalize the commercialization of our health.

 

[elenaboo25]

Even if it were government funded, somebody would be paying it in the end.

 

[unluckysadness]

Here is a new documentary about Pegasos (in french) from swiss public channel RTS

 

[Forever Sleep]

There have been two (relatively) recent cases of UK citizens ending their lives at Pegasos- without the knowledge of their families. One case was: Alistair Hamilton- which is I believe the gentleman from the link above that unlucksadness posted. More recently, a lady named Anne from Bristol received assisted suicide there. The family are claiming they also weren't told although, supposedly, a text was sent. In both cases though- the families are absolutely furious. I'm not really surprised that they do now insist that families are aware of the decision.

I think these organisations are supposedly non profit. It does seem hugely expensive to me but then- assumably, they couldn't claim to be non profit if they weren't.

I do think this is concerning. I believe healthcare, including euthanasia should be government funded. We should not normalize the commercialization of our health.

I'm not too sure about this... I think the fee needs to be standardized but I think there could be either allegations or genuine complications if our governments started running programmes like these.

Let's say- they have a big pot of money for health and social care. They can either choose to put the money into say a drug rehabilitation programme or, cancer research drugs targetting late stage cancer or, they can fund assisted suicide. What if there isn't quite the money for all?

Wouldn't it save them money to just kill those people off though? Are they able to work? Probably not. Will they ever be able to? Perhaps not. What other needs do they have? Housing needs, benefits. Wouldn't they rather kill them, rather than keep paying out for years on end?

They wouldn't even need to push them into making the decision. They'd simply need to withdraw their support and benefits and healthcare to the point that life became so intolerable, they would decide to leave of their own 'free will'.

It's already happening to an extent. People are having their benefits threatened. People already struggling are being nudged towards considering suicide as it is- I imagine. If our governments start offering it- what's to say they won't accept?

With fewer say disabled people around demanding support, they may withdraw even more support. If there isn't great enough need to provide support for a proportion of people who have specific needs- because so many have chosen to die- will they bother anymore? Are they more likely to provide easy access into a building for 1 disabled person or, 100? They may not bother if it's just 1.

Although it's difficult to believe. I also think organisations like Pegasos and Dignitas are (supposedly) non- profit organisations. I tend to think assisted dying facilities would remain safer out of our governments greedy little hands. I do definitely think they would need strict regulation though. To ensure all was above board.

 

[Binderz]

Ironically, I had a similar experience when I reached out to them a few weeks back. Told I was young (also in my 40s) and they wanted a family member to vouch for the situation. My parents are both long dead and I don't have any other family that I'm close too. Not sure the uncle i saw 20 years ago would be able to vouch for my current situation. Why wasn't my word or medical records enough. I felt punished for losing my parents when I was young and now being very isolated and now having family. We don't all have 'happy family homes'. Made me feel more rubbish than before contacting them. Rant over. But I understand where you are coming from

Thanks for telling us about your experience. I'm curious about one thing: How would they want a family member to vouch for your condition? Write an email, talk to someone on the phone, sign a document?

 

[ifihadnever]

Thanks for telling us about your experience. I'm curious about one thing: How would they want a family member to vouch for your condition? Write an email, talk to someone on the phone, sign a document?

I've just looked through my emails and this is what they have said "You would need to submit a notarized letter from your family and next of kin, attesting to their support of your application". So a letter basically. Not much help if I don't have any family or people arent in contact with their family, I don't even have a next of kin. I should just write the letter myself - I don't know how they verify it.

 

[Binderz]

Here is a new documentary about Pegasos (in french) from swiss public channel RTS

Hi Unluckysad: I appreciate your posting this video. Insightful peek into this organization. The news slant was mainly negative but this is to be expected. Society as a whole is against the concept of the right to die on your own terms, no matter how much you're suffering. Again, your video contribution is much appreciated.

 

[MyLifeisHell]

Alastair souffrait de douleurs abdominales inexpliquées, mais il n'était pas en fin de vie. "Sa vie n'était pas parfaite, mais il avait encore une vie que des milliers de personnes auraient été heureuses d'avoir", ajoute sa mère.

Alastair suffered from unexplained stomach pains but he was not terminal. "His life was not perfect but he still had a life that thousands of people would have been happy to have his mothers" adds his mother.

That sentiment is often expressed but what exactly is the relevance of there being other people who would want to have your life if you're contemplating suicide? They don't have it and can never have it. You're the only one who will ever experience it. Does that mean you should be willing to accept what you find unacceptable?

If these people had had his life they would have ended up right there in that clinic because wanting to die WAS his life.

 

[KlMeNw]

It is a business in the same way as hospitals are businesses. Unfortunately, in our capitalist society, nothing is truly free.

Nothing is free in any system, not just capitalism as you say. Someone or ones always pays.

 

[imreadyplayerone]

43 yo

damn if thats young im a fetus

 

[unluckysadness]

Thankyou for posting this new video. Pegasos opened 6 years ago in a rented commercial area of Basel. Now they've built their own rural chalet near a mountain village - and the village wants to evict them ! Only 300 people per year die at Pegasos @10,000 Francs each = 3 million francs annually to staff and run the Pegasos medical clinic .

You're welcome. I honestly understand the village who wants to evict them. Vey bad reputation and the value of houses in the surrounding area could fall sharply...

 

[whitefeather]

Here is a new documentary about Pegasos (in french) from swiss public channel RTS

Thankyou for posting this new video.

 

[tulero]

damn if thats young im a fetus

is relatively young to still be paying taxes

 

[unluckysadness]

is relatively young to still be paying taxes

Exactly what I do : I pay huge taxes (even if I'm disabled) just for suffering all the time. Non sense and cruel.

 

[catsalvation]

I was thinking about them, but what is this crap about a family member? I guess to CTA (cover their a**)... But lot of us don't have family, or even who has, they won't necessarily support their euthanasia plans... Where is the autonomy in this?

 

[A_Spartan_Dead]

Thanks for your kind words. Yes I'm in a debilitating painful condition. The disease is incurable so I need to wait for the bus driver (I have my ticket). In fact, most of us don't need to be "assisted" for committing suicide. They can just give us N (we know how to drink it). But pro-lifers seems to prefere violent and painful methods for us...

Very sad to hear you're in pain.
It's a weird time in humanity's era where people supposedly have free will but they can't choose to have autonomy over their own lives.

Wouldn't it save them money to just kill those people off though? Are they able to work? Probably not. Will they ever be able to? Perhaps not. What other needs do they have? Housing needs, benefits. Wouldn't they rather kill them, rather than keep paying out for years on end?

They wouldn't even need to push them into making the decision. They'd simply need to withdraw their support and benefits and healthcare to the point that life became so intolerable, they would decide to leave of their own 'free will'.

It's already happening to an extent. People are having their benefits threatened. People already struggling are being nudged towards considering suicide as it is- I imagine. If our governments start offering it- what's to say they won't accept?

With fewer say disabled people around demanding support, they may withdraw even more support. If there isn't great enough need to provide support for a proportion of people who have specific needs- because so many have chosen to die- will they bother anymore? Are they more likely to provide easy access into a building for 1 disabled person or, 100? They may not bother if it's just 1.

They're doing it already where they are forcing circumstances on everyone, like housing prices, in order to force more people on the streets and have them suicide themselves. It doesn't save money since they'd just redirect it to fund (usually) wars. Causing suffering will make it easier for people to seek refuge from their circumstances by joining the army, in the hope they get paid well enough to afford a house.
"Dying on the street or dying in war, which do you choose?" (Hope this isn't used as their slogan)
Hmm might thread this up in fact..