October 2018 vomiting chapter

[Chinaski]

Having re read it I've also noticed they haven't even been arsed to use a spellchecker. "Dse" and "invovles" might just be innocent typos but in this context they really highlight the lack of care and attention invested in this.

 

[Arak]

@scales ,

Thanks and if someone has the whole book ...

 

[Sayo]

If one were really cynical, it could be observed that this latest effort upscaling the risks of N compared to the positive aspects of Max Dog Nitrogen neatly coincides with A taking time off from his work.

Yes - I think the fact that Nitschke sells nitrogen makes him less reliable now because he has a stake in it. I do not know if it is profitable, especially given the legal challenge, but at a cursory look they certainly aren't being sold at cost.

 

[Arak]

@Sayo ,

Up to a point that's true. I don't know the differences between nitrogen, helium and argon by heart. But we can be thankful for the flow control apparatus ! I'm not quite sure about the smaller 'bottles' (volume) for the EU vs. Australia.

Nitschke has a stake in all the methods he 'promotes', it's his work.

 

[InkBlot]

Thanks for uploading, scales! I really appreciate you sharing it with the community so we can have a look.

Really starting to get sceptical of Nitschke's recent stuff. It feels like Exit do not put as much effort into their recent writings. This is incredibly poor quality work, and lazy. There are reasons not to employ ondansetron with some of the methods advocated in the PPeH, never mind dramamine. The wording around their meto change is weird too.

And finally, many people would have simply no idea what the side effects column of that table even means.

Cavalier advice through and through - in Australia, where many of Exit's members reside, you will not get metoclopramide because you are concerned about seasickness. In fact, metoclopramide is not very effective for it. Maybe Nitschke does not think the anti-emetic is important before the N for some reason (given that the chapter is primed for N), or that ondansetron will suffice, but it will definitely not for e.g. the inorganic salts. I really have to question what was going on here. Not all of it is wrong, but the correct and useful information was already available.

When released initially, SN was touted as a newer cheaper N/Cyanide as far as methods go. Since then theyve moved on to pushing other more expensive routes or difficult ones. I honestly wonder just how much money these guys are garnering off of us by saying "Buy this! No wait, buy this!" I know we dont have a large enough test group who want to make X or Y method 100%, but the rate we're jumping ship...has become suspicious. I know and have read many stories of people succeeding on SN, and accidentally dying of SN...so Im gonna use it until someone donates me 2 bottles of N haha.

 

[scales]

When released initially, SN was touted as a newer cheaper N/Cyanide as far as methods go. Since then theyve moved on to pushing other more expensive routes or difficult ones. I honestly wonder just how much money these guys are garnering off of us by saying "Buy this! No wait, buy this!" I know we dont have a large enough test group who want to make X or Y method 100%, but the rate we're jumping ship...has become suspicious. I know and have read many stories of people succeeding on SN, and accidentally dying of SN...so Im gonna use it until someone donates me 2 bottles of N haha.

Considering how complex it is to buy N and that it must be done through unusual methods that don't benefit the author... I think SN would be a preferred method for most people due to it's accessibility. At least for me, obtaining all the materials was relatively easy.

 

[Tidus]

what are the recent thoughts about the anti-e?
How did f.e. the last members, who had ctb with N handled it?

 

[Chinaski]

what are the recent thoughts about the anti-e?
How did f.e. the last members, who had ctb with N handled it?

We'll never know the outcome for certain of any members from here who ctb with N, but as far as l know Dignitas give 30mg of meto half an hour before the N. Given they use concentrated stuff and we'd be relying on pills, an hour prior gives longer for them to work. So my guess would be 30mg of meto an hour prior would be fine. From what l gather, vomiting with N is not as huge an issue compared to other overdoses, it's just best to be certain. The inconsistencies in expert advice on this concern me too, but it's worth observing that only Nitschke advised a dose of 60mg, and he's now halved that.

 

[voool]

@Chinaski They never seem to acknowledge any changes they've made or the views of other people with knowledge on the subject. It all looks like baseless conjecture since they never seem to mention success stories with the exact dosage that was taken.
I was hoping this chapter would go a lot more in depth.

But on the other hand, I'm probably just overthinking too much. It's not an exact science where one pill more or less will result in drastically different results. And most sources all provide very similar information, it's mostly the dosage that's different each time.

I don't think the pph is the best book on suicide.

 

[OfficerK]

I don't think the pph is the best book on suicide.

In a "it's the worst book except for all the other (non-existent) books" sort of way? I'm not really familiar with other books on the topic.

 

[Chinaski]

I don't think the pph is the best book on suicide.

It's not even the best drummer in the Beatles.

But then, I'm guessing not all books have contact details for an N supplier either, so it's certainly got something going for it.

 

[Arak]

@voool ,

Know any better ones ?

 

[voool]

In a "it's the worst book except for all the other (non-existent) books" sort of way? I'm not really familiar with other books on the topic.

I've been reading two other ones mentioned in the resources sticky post here.

@voool ,

Know any better ones ?

Guide to a humane self chosen death
Forgot the other one but it's very long and In the resources sticky.

 

[voool]

It's not even the best drummer in the Beatles.

But then, I'm guessing not all books have contact details for an N supplier either, so it's certainly got something going for it.

I feel like hes simply changing things up to be able to keep selling his book. You only get a number of chapters I believe.

 

[Chinaski]

I feel like hes simply changing things up to be able to keep selling his book. You only get a number of chapters I believe.

I'm not entirely comfortable with the inconsistencies either, as I've stated above and elsewhere. Similarly, there's something very glib and mercenary about Nitschke which is deeply off-putting. Still, the PPH does offer the most, in that it gives a great deal of useful info regarding how to attain as peaceful a passing as possible. As much as this is undermined by his inconsistencies and general personality it's unlikely one can self deliver as close to the dignitas experience as possible without the PPH.

 

[OfficerK]

I feel like hes simply changing things up to be able to keep selling his book. You only get a number of chapters I believe.

He's been pretty consistent in saying that N is the best alternative and that it is to be preferred over all other methods. There have been few significant changes pertaining to that in the time that I've been here, with the only exception I can recall being the removal of J as a supplier. In other words, the most important part of the book, in PN's eyes, has remained unchanged. You could get the same information from earlier iterations of the book. The parts that have been added or altered aren't really the main draw of the book.

I'm aware that I sound like a shill for Peter, but I doubt that he has such strong ulterior motives. After all, he was the first Australian doctor to administer an euthanasia injection when it was legalized back in the 90's. It appears to me that he is primarily motivated by his moral convictions, and not so much by the prospect of getting rich at the end of his life.

 

[Arak]

@voool ,

Thank you. A good one. Unfortunately, not much that's new. I'm not sure about the other one, but I doubt there is a method I missed.

Drugs that cause cardiac arrythmia. I'm just note sure it will lead to death. Is that just me ? And the 'sleeping pills' (not barbs) won't work.

Helium exit bag. I know there are issues with that. Theory is often better than practice.

About the N, Dignitas and NL:

All cases reported death, in the Netherlands physicians euthanised people after two hours. What if they had not ?
Dignitas: more than 8 % took 8-12 hours to die. Supposedly, they died on their own. Hypoxia. Or did they get help in some way ? Duration of action of N is 1-4 hours, so it must have stopped working at that point. I''m not sure what Dignitas does in such cases, and how they deal with tolerance.

 

[Chinaski]

Mate, we've been through this.

Doctors in the Netherlands intervened after 2 hours because they used a smaller dose of N (9g). You're arguing here that N doesn't work because some people are in a coma for 12 hours as opposed to 4, and treat this as evidence that Dignitas are therefore smothering their customers.

You've already decided against N, I'm unsure why you're so keen to dissuade others from what is, statistically and anecdotally, the most peaceful and efficient method there is.

 

[voool]

Mate, we've been through this.

Doctors in the Netherlands intervened after 2 hours because they used a smaller dose of N (9g). You're arguing here that N doesn't work because some people are in a coma for 12 hours as opposed to 4, and treat this as evidence that Dignitas are therefore smothering their customers.

You've already decided against N, I'm unsure why you're so keen to dissuade others from what is, statistically and anecdotally, the most peaceful and efficient method there is.

But what does happen during the 8-12 hours. I'm curious too.

 

[Chinaski]

But what does happen during the 8-12 hours. I'm curious too.

I suspect it's one of two things:

1) the individual stops breathing and dies

2) a one-eyed Dignitas employee in dungarees named Gunther is hauled up from the dungeonesque basement with a flamethrower and saves everyone a lot of embarrassment.

 

[TiredHorse]

Helium exit bag. I know there are issues with that. Theory is often better than practice.

My understanding is that most of the issues about eb/He revolve around He adulterated with air by the companies marketting He for filling party balloons. As soon as you change from balloon company He to industrial N2 or Ar (or industrial He), most issues resolve.

But N is still the gold standard. Maybe someday someone will start producing reliable quality fentanyl for exit purposes, but until then... N

 

[voool]

My understanding is that most of the issues about eb/He revolve around He adulterated with air by the companies marketting He for filling party balloons. As soon as you change from balloon company He to industrial N2 or Ar (or industrial He), most issues resolve.

But N is still the gold standard. Maybe someday someone will start producing reliable quality fentanyl for exit purposes, but until then... N

There are other opiates mentioned extensively for exiting with reports about failures and successes. Heroin, methadone, oxycodone and others would be just as lethal as fentanyl in high enough doses.

 

[TiredHorse]

There are other opiates mentioned extensively for exiting with reports about failures and successes. Heroin, methadone, oxycodone and others would be just as lethal as fentanyl in high enough doses.

Unfortunately, I haven't the faintest idea where to aquire those, and no skill with the darkweb. They are as inaccessible to me as F. Besides, I like how little pure F is required for a lethal OD. One tiny pill, no swigging down several gulps of N. Even better, a half dozen transdermal patches. But since F is currently nothing more than a fantasy, there is little point in discussing it in this reality-based context.

 

[voool]

Unfortunately, I haven't the faintest idea where to aquire those, and no skill with the darkweb. They are as inaccessible to me as F. Besides, I like how little pure F is required for a lethal OD. One tiny pill, no swigging down several gulps of N. Even better, a half dozen transdermal patches. But since F is currently nothing more than a fantasy, there is little point in discussing it in this reality-based context.

it really takes no skill to access a tor based market.

download tor.
type the url for the market into tor browser
sign up on the market
purchase what you want.

 

[Arak]

There are other opiates mentioned extensively for exiting with reports about failures and successes. Heroin, methadone, oxycodone and others would be just as lethal as fentanyl in high enough doses.

I'd be able to get oxycodone ... but what's really the LD50 or LD80 ? In one of those books I read that a bit of opiate tolerance can prevent a lethal OD.

 

[voool]

I'd be able to get oxycodone ... but what's really the LD50 or LD80 ? In one of those books I read that a bit of opiate tolerance can prevent a lethal OD.

500mg with benzos

 

[Arak]

@voool ,

Oh I can't do that ! Massive benzo tolerance and some opiate tolerance. I wish ...

@voool,

Thanks for the suggestion about the books. Good stuff. I know it was a different thread.

I think Nitschke is the only one who mentions SN unless Im mistaken ... and I may be.
It looks like the 1990s were an easier time. Cyanide was not impossible to get, the same for some other things as well. Now, in Europe sodium azide is almost banned ! I wish I had prepared ...

 

[Swisher]

Hi TH,
Can you point me to the thread regarding instinctictual behavior (ACTH)? Or triggers/alarming, I think you may have been participant....also included purging air from a mask argon) etc.... (& I'll PM a quick msg about "F").

Unfortunately, I haven't the faintest idea where to aquire those, and no skill with the darkweb. They are as inaccessible to me as F. Besides, I like how little pure F is required for a lethal OD. One tiny pill, no swigging down several gulps of N. Even better, a half dozen transdermal patches. But since F is currently nothing more than a fantasy, there is little point in discussing it in this reality-based context.

 

[dysfunctional]

Cannabis is listed. Intersting. If it has a good effect on you, you may not want to ctb anymore. I quit weed for a job, then fucked my life up and fell into deep depression. Now weed doesn't work for me and I really want to catch the bus.

 

[Lifeisatrap]

Zofran is listed as 8mg 30 mins prior. Yet meto is listed as 20-30mg taken 30min-1 hour prior. But zofran is suppose to take longer to take effect and be less effective than meto yet less is needed? Yeah, this list doesn't make sense.