Discussion My recent phone conversation with Dignitas

[Lady black]

Mo the online friend wasn´t here it was a german forum.
I don´t know if that would be enough. I only know it´s really hard to get accepted there

 

[Buffy5120]

Mo the online friend wasn´t here it was a german forum.
I don´t know if that would be enough. I only know it´s really hard to get accepted there

Ok

 

[Lady black]

But if you says money and time (it can take a few months until you are accepted) doens´t matter try it. If you want to die quick you have to do it in your own

 

[Buffy5120]

But if you says money and time (it can take a few months until you are accepted) doens´t matter try it. If you want to die quick you have to do it in your own

Yeah i know i just feel like i would fail and i already have enough damage as it is

 

[Lady black]

That´s really sad. If you need somone to talk/write just feel free to contact me

 

[Buffy5120]

That´s really sad. If you need somone to talk/write just feel free to contact me

I definitely will thank you so much again

 

[AcornUnderground]

Dignitas is a long process with a lot of paperwork. Pegasos is not - they are actually quite fast with the process and can approve you in a matter of weeks. They do require medical paperwork. Even with my physical issues - which were pretty much enough get me approved and I provided pretty minimal medical paperwork - they asked for a letter from a psychiatrist stating that I am of sound mind to make medical decisions for myself. Before COVID, they told me that they could get me scheduled in a matter of weeks. I'm first in line once airports open, I've been told, but reading online travel expert articles - it will be likely October at the earliest before international travel starts back, and maybe even 2021. If you do go to Pegasos, you will meet with a doctor the day before the event but the meeting is more to describe what will happen to you and answer any questions that you may have.

 

[Buffy5120]

Dignitas is a long process with a lot of paperwork. Pegasos is not - they are actually quite fast with the process and can approve you in a matter of weeks. They do require medical paperwork. Even with my physical issues - which were pretty much enough get me approved and I provided pretty minimal medical paperwork - they asked for a letter from a psychiatrist stating that I am of sound mind to make medical decisions for myself. Before COVID, they told me that they could get me scheduled in a matter of weeks. I'm first in line once airports open, I've been told, but reading online travel expert articles - it will be likely October at the earliest before international travel starts back, and maybe even 2021. If you do go to Pegasos, you will meet with a doctor the day before the event but the meeting is more to describe what will happen to you and answer any questions that you may have.

What is your illness and where do u live & your age? Do you think they will accept me for herniated disc my doctor even reffered me to a spine surgeon all at 24?

 

[AcornUnderground]

What is your illness and where do u live & your age? Do you think they will accept me for herniated disc my doctor even reffered me to a spine surgeon all at 24?

Hi, I have a severe case of Sjögrens Syndrome, an autoimmune disease that can range from mild to debilitating. I'm bedridden with severe eye disease, joint/muscle pain, terrible tinnitus, and severely damaged salivary, tear and exocrine glands to the point that eating, swallowing and gut motility are a major problem. My eyes are so bad I really can't go outside or anywhere. I am in the US. I'm not sure at your age if a herniated disc would suffice; considering it's generally fixable - I would think not.

 

[AcornUnderground]

No, I meant to say that, if I want to leave this life without my biological family finding out, I would have to find an alternative method to ctb, (hanging in the woods without id, or jumping without I'd) and do so without any identification documents. According to Dignitas, that whenever a foreigner in Switzerland passes away, the record of death is passed on to the embassy of the deceased nation of domicile (i.e. passport). This information is required by Swiss law to be processed. I'm on a U.S. passport, so the U.S. authorities will track down the deceased next of kin, which is what I do not want.

I talked to the director of Pegasos yesterday and really drilled him on this. Pegasos DOES give the death certificate and passport to the US Embassy, and the US Embassy processes an additional form that is released to Next of Kin. The director told me the Next of Kin can be whomever I name. I do hope that they will not track down my family and I am naming my partner as my Next of Kin - he is the executor of my estate, power of attorney, etc. HOWEVER there is no place of death listed on the death certificate other than Switzerland, no physician name, and no cause of death. Absolutely no information beyond that will be released by the Embassy, per Pegasos but I have to say that Pegasos - while more lax than Dignitas - is a little disorganized, at least right now.

 

[ManWithNoName]

I talked to the director of Pegasos yesterday and really drilled him on this. Pegasos DOES give the death certificate and passport to the US Embassy, and the US Embassy processes an additional form that is released to Next of Kin. The director told me the Next of Kin can be whomever I name. I do hope that they will not track down my family and I am naming my partner as my Next of Kin - he is the executor of my estate, power of attorney, etc. HOWEVER there is no place of death listed on the death certificate other than Switzerland, no physician name, and no cause of death. Absolutely no information beyond that will be released by the Embassy, per Pegasos but I have to say that Pegasos - while more lax than Dignitas - is a little disorganized, at least right now.

Thanks so much for doing this—and reporting back to us. A while ago there was another member here who was adamant that Pegasos would not contact the U.S. Embassy. He even got defensive about it. But with all due respect to him, the fact is that both Dignitas and Pegasos are bound by the laws of Switzerland, no exceptions. So Pegasos is either disorganized, or perhaps just lying to potential clients. I hope for Pegasos sake, and their clients, that it is the former.

 

[ManWithNoName]

HOWEVER there is no place of death listed on the death certificate other than Switzerland, no physician name, and no cause of death.

Just curious: Is this true for all of Switzerland or perhaps just the canton of Zürich? I wouldn't mind carrying out ctb in a country that does not report suicide.

 

[AcornUnderground]

Just curious: Is this true for all of Switzerland or perhaps just the canton of Zürich? I wouldn't mind carrying out ctb in a country that does not report suicide.

That is a good question. I'll ask. They did say that it is the same death certificate given to any international that dies.

 

[ManWithNoName]

That is a good question. I'll ask. They did say that it is the same death certificate given to any international that dies.

Ok, looking forward to what you find out. Thanks again.

 

[AcornUnderground]

Ok, looking forward to what you find out. Thanks again.

I will PM you.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

Thanks so much for doing this—and reporting back to us. A while ago there was another member here who was adamant that Pegasos would not contact the U.S. Embassy. He even got defensive about it. But with all due respect to him, the fact is that both Dignitas and Pegasos are bound by the laws of Switzerland, no exceptions. So Pegasos is either disorganized, or perhaps just lying to potential clients. I hope for Pegasos sake, and their clients, that it is the former.

I have no idea who the member was and didn't read the conversation, but this is an anonymous forum and we can't know others' motivations or if they're telling the truth. Another possibility to add to those you mentioned is that the defensiveness was an evasion technique. Sometimes people brandish strong emotions to get others to back down from their positions.

I remember how vocally and publicly adamant @fightingsioux was against goodbye threads and tributes, yet when he at last (allegedly) had assisted euthanasia, another member posted a tribute and got vehemently defensive about it when others called that out in respect for and deference to @fightingsioux's explicitly stated wishes. You may be referring to the same member, but it's not really relevant except as it relates to your own personal consideration of what you mentioned, unless you want to support what you said above by quoting the comments you alluded to. Personally, I don't think it's necessary for my own edification, but someone else might if they want to follow up and not just take your word for it. Not trying to provoke you! Just standing back and looking at your comment from multiple perspectives. Hope you can understand that and not feel any disrespect or challenge that are not present with me.

To wrap up about not knowing who's at the keyboard or why, even @fightingsioux could be a persona who acted from a script. But his consistent behaviors demonstrated a consistent character, so I always leave room for doubt because it's an anonymous and open forum, but overall I would be willing to give much weight to anything he said, based on his consistency, and because anything he claimed about methods or assisted euthanasia is verifiable.

 

[ManWithNoName]

BTW this is just a follow-up post to something else I found out. The impression I get, and this is based on the various documentaries out there (I still have to make a call to follow up) but that each of the clients of Dignitas (and most likely of other places that offer euthanasia services) who ctb via their service is videotaped taking the medication that ends their lives. This is done for legal reasons, and is private, however it is something everyone should be aware of in case that is something you would not want. As with all electronic data these days, be it text, audio or video, there is always the chance it might end up going public by accident, or malicious intent. For some this may be a non-issue, but for others it may be of concern. I'm just putting this out there as additional info about Dignitas.

 

[ManWithNoName]

I talked to the director of Pegasos yesterday and really drilled him on this. Pegasos DOES give the death certificate and passport to the US Embassy, and the US Embassy processes an additional form that is released to Next of Kin. The director told me the Next of Kin can be whomever I name.

Yes that now seems to be the case because this is a law that both Pegasus or Dignitas have to obey.

At least one can make their next of kin. A close friend would be good, but I'm certain the U.S. Embassy will want someone closer to the deceased's family such as a biological family relative or a spouse, so, if it would be me, I would like the idea of marrying someone before I go through with the ctb. Granted I'm not with my girlfriend anymore, so I would just make a deal with some chick off and he street and pay her a fee to get married.

 

[Buffy5120]

Yes that now seems to be the case because this is a law that both Pegasus or Dignitas have to obey.

At least one can make their next of kin. A close friend would be good, but I'm certain the U.S. Embassy will want someone closer to the deceased's family such as a biological family relative or a spouse, so, if it would be me, I would like the idea of marrying someone before I go through with the ctb. Granted I'm not with my girlfriend anymore, so I would just make a deal with some chick off and he street and pay her a fee to get married.

No someone who got accepted said at Dignitas they have it where they can find someone if you cant bring anyone with you. Its only cost 1k have you applied it been a year or you using another method?

 

[ManWithNoName]

No someone who got accepted said at Dignitas they have it where they can find someone if you cant bring anyone with you. Its only cost 1k have you applied it been a year or you using another method?

That's good to know. The assisted suicide programs are out of my budget. Plus getting approval for wanting to call it quits for psychological reasons will be much more difficult.

 

[RainAndSadness]

Unfortunately no, because Dignitas still has to follow Swiss Law.

Did Dignitas say that? That's a lazy distraction. Assisted suicide is legal in Switzerland if there are no malicious or selfish intentions present. Dignitas simply doesn't want to assist certain people (mostly young people) because they fear social backlash or additional legal work to prove their case. I could literally help my mom die and it would be legal as long as I can prove that this was her wish.

Article 115 of the Swiss Criminal Code:

Inciting and assisting suicide: Any person who for selfish motives incites or assists another to commit or attempt to commit suicide shall, if that other person thereafter commits or attempts to commit suicide, be liable to a custodial sentence not exceeding five years or to a monetary penalty.

Euthanasia in Switzerland - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[ManWithNoName]

I could literally help my mom die and it would be legal as long as I can prove that this was her wish.

And therein lies the potential trap: the government could make an argument that it was not your mother's wish even though it was, and I'm sure there are cases where some pro-lifers in the Swiss government that are giving those who want to ctb a hard time via the legal system. This is why Dignitas is very due diligent about all of this.

 

[RainAndSadness]

And therein lies the potential trap: the government could make an argument that it was not your mother's wish even though it was, and I'm sure there are cases where some pro-lifers in the Swiss government that are giving those who want to ctb a hard time via the legal system. This is why Dignitas is very due diligent about all of this.

Except people don't sit in jail for assisting suicide. That's why we have established 3 organizations that do this 24/7.

 

[autisticalex]

do you think that there are any places currently for people on the spectrum?

 

[ftm68_99]

Allen Gumm
Thu
Hello. This is (I think) my first posting on SS, so pleas bear with me.

My question is directed to those who have treatment resistant depression and who have applied successfully to Pegasos in Switzerland for assisted dying. I'm wondering if you found that the Pegasos people respond favorably to any particular kinds of wording over other kinds in describing your condition. I also wonder how they "grade" one's "biography," wherein we're asked to give an auto-biography in sections of 300 words or less. Lastly, I wonder what kind of responses the psychiatrists are looking for when they interview us to make sure we're of sound mind in making the VAD decision.
.
So to repeat, if anyone suffering from clinical depression has applied…successfully…to Pegasos, could you give me an idea of how I should write to them? And also--what kinds of questions the psychiatrists ask you to determine that you're of sound mind?

Many thanks.

 

[aGoodDayToDie]

Why does everything have to be so fucking hard. Fuck life. Fuck this world. Fuck governments

 

[J&L383]

You have some very good questions. 300 words seems too short to adequately describe ones life. As for the interview by the psychiatrist, I would think you just have to be as honest as you can, and hope that that satisfies the criteria, because I would think that they could detect dishonesty and that would probably be a red flag. My impression is in terms of intractable depression is they would really like to see an effort on the patient's part to try to find solutions, it's not that you have to exhaust everything, including ECT for example, but they really want to see an effort. They just have to be satisfied that it's very unlikely you will ever get better. They also have to be clearly satisfied that you absolutely know what's going to happen when you take the steps to deliver the medication that will kill you. In other words, that there's nothing from a psychological or mental illness perspective from keeping you from having that sound judgment. If you are resolute and unwavering, that's probably what's going to help in the long run.