Discussion Can mentally ill people have the right to commit suicide?

[tobby rabbit]

Just wandering

 

[Praestat_Mori]

Suicide must be a general human right when someone wants to leave this world for their personal reasons.

 

[Griffith_NPD]

I believe anyone should be allowed to depart from here.... (I'm mentally ill)

 

[FuneralCry]

Nobody is obligated to continue suffering in this existence that they were burdened with no matter what. Trying to force someone to suffer when they want to die will always be criminal and inhumane to me, the right to die is a basic human right.

 

[Takamagahara]

Most "mental illnesses" are, by and large, social constructs with fluid definitions determined by consensus of the prevailing culture. They are designated as illnesses because they are considered responsible for producing dysfunctional or socially objectionable behavior within the context of a particular society. Certain behaviors observed in women, that weren't even necessarily exclusive to women, were classified as "female hysteria" despite nowadays being considered relatively normal, and had historically subjected women to being placed in insane asylums or even lobotomized. Human behaviors run a spectrum and the designations of what behavior is "normal" and what behavior is "ill" is arbitrary.

I don't consider someone mentally ill unless they are literally non-functional in a physiological sense.

So yes, everyone who is aware of suicide as an option has the right to decide for themselves if suicide is a valid outcome for themselves. That's self-determination.

 

[venting247]

I'm mentally ill and yes I think everyone should have the right to CTB if they feel they want to. It is someone's personal choice to leave, it's not like they're killing someone else. They will have their own reasons, and yes, it may hurt others who know/knew that person, but forcing them to stay when they aren't going to get better is selfish.

 

[Minsu]

Most "mental illnesses" are, by and large, social constructs with fluid definitions determined by consensus of the prevailing culture. They are designated as illnesses because they are considered responsible for producing dysfunctional or socially objectionable behavior within the context of a particular society. Certain behaviors observed in women, that weren't even necessarily exclusive to women, were classified as "female hysteria" despite nowadays being considered relatively normal, and had historically subjected women to being placed in insane asylums or even lobotomized. Human behaviors run a spectrum and the designations of what behavior is "normal" and what behavior is "ill" is arbitrary.

I don't consider someone mentally ill unless they are literally non-functional in a physiological sense.

So yes, everyone who is aware of suicide as an option has the right to decide for themselves if suicide is a valid outcome for themselves. That's self-determination.

Seconding this. Well written

 

[fwompie]

Being mentally ill is torture. Being mentally ill in a society where the rest of the population is allowed to choose death but not you, is pure evil.

It'll just take a longer process to check baseline and improvements, to make sure it's what you really want and that your suffering is endless, but that's fine. At least that would seem normal and dignified to me. For assisted suicide I mean.

Most "mental illnesses" are, by and large, social constructs with fluid definitions determined by consensus of the prevailing culture. They are designated as illnesses because they are considered responsible for producing dysfunctional or socially objectionable behavior within the context of a particular society. Certain behaviors observed in women, that weren't even necessarily exclusive to women, were classified as "female hysteria" despite nowadays being considered relatively normal, and had historically subjected women to being placed in insane asylums or even lobotomized. Human behaviors run a spectrum and the designations of what behavior is "normal" and what behavior is "ill" is arbitrary.

I don't consider someone mentally ill unless they are literally non-functional in a physiological sense.

So yes, everyone who is aware of suicide as an option has the right to decide for themselves if suicide is a valid outcome for themselves. That's self-determination.

I've heard this theory before but I don't really understand it. What mental illness would fall into that category? I know mine limit my functioning a lot without having to do with my interaction with society.

 

[Takamagahara]

I've heard this theory before but I don't really understand it. What mental illness would fall into that category? I know mine limit my functioning a lot without having to do with my interaction with society.

In summary: "If everyone is mentally ill, then no one is mentally ill."

In other words, things like mental illness, suicidality, deviant behavior, or psychotic tendencies are behaviors that are only considered "wrong" or "an illness" through context and comparison with so-called "non-ill", "non-deviant", "non-psychotic actors", aka people lacking in these behaviors.

Let's use a "classic" mental illness as an example: everyone's favourite, schizophrenia. Despite the idiosyncratic nature of schizophrenic behaviors, modern psychology has deemed that schizophrenia has a demonstrably repeatable and observable pattern of behaviors with which to diagnose. In some way or another, all schizophrenics are considered to behave similarly.

To demonstrate, let us simply reverse the paradigm. Let's say that the entire human population consists of a large majority of schizophrenics with the "usual" schizophrenic symptoms: visual and auditory hallucinations, asociality (lack of desire to form relationships), thought dissociation (believing that your thoughts are not your own), and so on. Their society, culture, and the socialization of their children revolve around their acceptance of these things as "normal" behaviors.

Now, insert a symptomless human into that society. They don't see or hear anything they cannot physically perceive. Instead of being asocial, they want to form relationships with everyone. They think that all of their thoughts belong to them.

Who, in this situation, is going to be considered mentally ill? And by whom?

If all of the medical professionals of a society run by schizophrenics encounters a symptomless human, isn't it true that the symptomless human by definition would be considered an aberrative, dysfunctional deviant?

 

[fwompie]

In summary: "If everyone is mentally ill, then no one is mentally ill."

In other words, things like mental illness, suicidality, deviant behavior, or psychotic tendencies are behaviors that are only considered "wrong" or "an illness" through context and comparison with so-called "non-ill", "non-deviant", "non-psychotic actors", aka people lacking in these behaviors.

Let's use a "classic" mental illness as an example: everyone's favourite, schizophrenia. Despite the idiosyncratic nature of schizophrenic behaviors, modern psychology has deemed that schizophrenia has a demonstrably repeatable and observable pattern of behaviors with which to diagnose. In some way or another, all schizophrenics are considered to behave similarly.

To demonstrate, let us simply reverse the paradigm. Let's say that the entire human population consists of a large majority of schizophrenics with the "usual" schizophrenic symptoms: visual and auditory hallucinations, asociality (lack of desire to form relationships), thought dissociation (believing that your thoughts are not your own), and so on. Their society, culture, and the socialization of their children revolve around their acceptance of these things as "normal" behaviors.

Now, insert a symptomless human into that society. They don't see or hear anything they cannot physically perceive. Instead of being asocial, they want to form relationships with everyone. They think that all of their thoughts belong to them.

Who, in this situation, is going to be considered mentally ill? And by whom?

If all of the medical professionals of a society run by schizophrenics encounters a symptomless human, isn't it true that the symptomless human by definition would be considered an aberrative, dysfunctional deviant?

I see, interesting. It's just that this isn't the case in society right now. Not everybody is mentally ill. And thus people who differ from "the norm" will still struggle immensely.

I get the theory and it makes sense but the theory is just not reality to me.

I don't want to dismiss it so I'll give a little example to explain my thoughts. I amongst other things struggle with dissociation. If the whole world experienced that frequently, it would be normal. But they don't which is why I have different needs than most. And it's also partially why I'm suicidal and why some people might not be.

Or am I getting it wrong here?

 

[Takamagahara]

I see, interesting. It's just that this isn't the case in society right now. Not everybody is mentally ill. And thus people who differ from "the norm" will still struggle immensely.

I get the theory and it makes sense but the theory is just not reality to me.

I don't want to dismiss it so I'll give a little example to explain my thoughts. I amongst other things struggle with dissociation. If the whole world experienced that frequently, it would be normal. But they don't which is why I have different needs than most. And it's also partially why I'm suicidal and why some people might not be.

Or am I getting it wrong here?

You're not wrong; my assertion that "most mental illness doesn't exist" is a normative statement ("How I think the world should be"), rather than a positive statement ("This is how the world is"). In other words, it's just my personal beliefs and how I see the world; I don't consider myself mentally ill, but I'm sure someone else who looks at my behavior or even considers the fact that I'm suicidal to be a clear sign of crippling mental illness.

In a world of "normality", there are certainly people, like you, whose needs and behaviors run beyond the boundaries of the spectrum of normality, and thus experience hardship and ostracisation as a result. You and these people are disadvantaged in the current iteration of society, there's absolutely no denying that.

Just for me personally, I refuse to allow myself to be called "mentally ill" because such a label is so often used as a dismissal. "You're not sad, you're just mentally ill." "You don't have any reason to be depressed, you just have a chemical imbalance in your brain." I want people to know and understand that I consider my despair, my perspective, and ultimately my decision to CTB to be perfectly valid and rational given the circumstances I am in. And ultimately, to dispel the "myth" of mental illness is to garner greater acceptance. None of us are sick; we just have different needs, needs that deserve to be accommodated, rather than denied and isolated and stigmatized, as much as any normal person's needs have the right to be accommodated.

 

[brokeandbroken]

It probably depends on *what* mentall illness. Are we assuming a waiting period? If someone is in full blown psychosis and says they want to kill themselves I am not sure we honor that request. If someone has long term severe treatment resistant depression and they have waited I think it is quite fair...

 

[fwompie]

You're not wrong; my assertion that "most mental illness doesn't exist" is a normative statement ("How I think the world should be"), rather than a positive statement ("This is how the world is"). In other words, it's just my personal beliefs and how I see the world; I don't consider myself mentally ill, but I'm sure someone else who looks at my behavior or even considers the fact that I'm suicidal to be a clear sign of crippling mental illness.

In a world of "normality", there are certainly people, like you, whose needs and behaviors run beyond the boundaries of the spectrum of normality, and thus experience hardship and ostracisation as a result. You and these people are disadvantaged in the current iteration of society, there's absolutely no denying that.

Just for me personally, I refuse to allow myself to be called "mentally ill" because such a label is so often used as a dismissal. "You're not sad, you're just mentally ill." "You don't have any reason to be depressed, you just have a chemical imbalance in your brain." I want people to know and understand that I consider my despair, my perspective, and ultimately my decision to CTB to be perfectly valid and rational given the circumstances I am in. And ultimately, to dispel the "myth" of mental illness is to garner greater acceptance. None of us are sick; we just have different needs, needs that deserve to be accommodated, rather than denied and isolated and stigmatized, as much as any normal person's needs have the right to be accommodated.

Aaah I get it! Thanks so much for explaining, I'd been wondering about it for a while.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I'd imagine plenty of mentally ill people can still demonstrate the capacity to reason- so- they ought to have the same right to autonomy as everyone else. I'd say it's only when it can be demonstrated that someone can't understand what assisted suicide is and its implications that they need further assessment.

That said- I think it's perfectly reasonable to suggest to someone with say- longterm depression that their thinking MAY have becone warped. Would they like to consider different therapies to see if they help? The choice should still be theirs to make though. It shouldn't be something that is forced on people.

I believe that some mental illnesses are treatment resistant- just the same as some physical illnesses. If we allow people with chronic physical illness access to assisted suicide- because they can't be helped anymore- the same should go for mental illness also.

I wouldn't say I was mentally ill. I perhaps have mild to moderate depression but it isn't exactly debhilitating. If the 'normies' want to insist I am mentally ill- then- surely- I ought to be on benefits.

 

[jbear824]

I'm mentally ill, and have been my whole life. It's bad enough that I can not productively participate in societal expectations. I can't work. I can barely leave the house. And even just being home, where I'm safe, I struggle with existing as a human being.

And now I live in poverty and will soon be facing permanent homelessness. I should be allowed to die despite the fact that I'm not rational 100% of the time.

 

[eashanm]

Yes, right to die is one of the most basic fundamental rights.

 

[Stuckinpast28]

I don't think there is a law that prevents suicide, so yes they can :P. I personally think that people like us should at least try to get help from professionals before committing, obviously, there are other circumstances that can change that like chronic pain or incurable diseases.

 

[Orbitc]

Most "mental illnesses" are, by and large, social constructs with fluid definitions determined by consensus of the prevailing culture. They are designated as illnesses because they are considered responsible for producing dysfunctional or socially objectionable behavior within the context of a particular society. Certain behaviors observed in women, that weren't even necessarily exclusive to women, were classified as "female hysteria" despite nowadays being considered relatively normal, and had historically subjected women to being placed in insane asylums or even lobotomized. Human behaviors run a spectrum and the designations of what behavior is "normal" and what behavior is "ill" is arbitrary.

I don't consider someone mentally ill unless they are literally non-functional in a physiological sense.

So yes, everyone who is aware of suicide as an option has the right to decide for themselves if suicide is a valid outcome for themselves. That's self-determination.

I can't give a definitive answer because I've had severe depression for many years, but I haven't seen a doctor. If I go to a doctor, I know that I am recognized as mentally ill because such depression is considered a mental illness in society. But I don't think that this is a disease because I have a terrible life, and vice versa, an inadequate perception of reality would be the absence of depression - since, for example, laughter and joy at the funeral of a loved one is inadequate. It's the same in my situation - when everything is so bad, then not having depression will not be normal. In any case, I think that anyone should be able to commit suicide.

 

[Takamagahara]

I can't give a definitive answer because I've had severe depression for many years, but I haven't seen a doctor. If I go to a doctor, I know that I am recognized as mentally ill because such depression is considered a mental illness in society. But I don't think that this is a disease because I have a terrible life, and vice versa, an inadequate perception of reality would be the absence of depression - since, for example, laughter and joy at the funeral of a loved one is inadequate. It's the same in my situation - when everything is so bad, then not having depression will not be normal. In any case, I think that anyone should be able to commit suicide.

Yeah, I feel the same way. If I go to a doctor or a psychiatrist, they would look at me and declare me "mentally ill". As in, they would superficially examine the circumstances of my life and decide that I am simply wrong to feel the way I feel about my life. According to their standards and the standards of society, I apparently have a pretty decent life, at least materially speaking. I have no reason to believe that things will get worse, according to them.

Not so. I, like most humans and even some animals, have something known as "pattern recognition". I am aware that things won't get better for me no matter how hard I try--because I have tried, with all the usual pro-lifer bullshit. Exercise, get some sun, meet people from your hobbies, open up, meditate, eat healthy, all of that. None of that has alleviated my loneliness or despair; it's only forced me to hide it deeper so I can pretend to be functional.

 

[Gonnerr]

We were born without our consent so we should be able to leave anytime , those who wants to stay , fine but we have the right to die with dignity with a peaceful method surrounded by friends and family.

But unfortunately, some of us have to rely on a violent method, it's not fair because we did not consent on being born.

 

[ihatethisplanet]

I don't understand why I can let the vet relieve my pets from suffering yet I'm not allowed to get the same care myself. I have a lifetime of anxiety and 20 years of on/off depression that medication doesn't help or if it does, I can't take it due to IBS side effects. When you have an established medical record as long as this and see that almost everything has been tried and failed, a person should be allowed to go.

What is it to them if we stay or go? Most people don't give a crap about whatever you're going through. That "reach out if you're suicidal" is a bunch of BS. You'll get accused of emotional manipulation, told you're going to hell and/or thrown into the nuthouse.

 

[LSDXMT]

I think one should have the choice as long as they are not in any sort of acute psychotic episode or perhaps something like a very bad trip on psychedelics, in which case i think its best to wait until that state has passed in order to make a decision whether to die. I just think as long as the person is lucid and aware of the decision, then i think they have the right to make it.

 

[DaysOfTomorrow]

Suffering is suffering, we're human and we're self aware, so if somebody's suffering for whatever reason, why they should have to take it and live with it? I mean I'm pretty darn sure many if not most suicidal people are suffering from the inside, me included, they may live a good "physical" life, but they are just...suffering.
A lot's been said here that I totally agree with, we came here without ever wanting, now we just have to go on, for WHAT reason? Why am I supposed to live a life that I don't want? I'm just forced to, and that's inhumane.
Anyway, the point is, our mental condition is a big part of what makes us who we are, if not the biggest, and if there is a problem with that, then there is a BIG problem.
Some may wanna make it better through whatever means, some may don't wanna, and some may just wanna...end it, that's up to them, again, that's what makes us, us.