Why I’ve been vocal and critique at length of psychotherapy and psychiatric systems on SaSu

[TAW122]

In case anyone has noticed (maybe a few) that I've spoken at length and critiqued about the psychiatric system as well as psychotherapy as a whole on various threads (including having a megathread just critiquing the field and industry as a whole while focusing on it's impact on societal parts) on SaSu, there are some reasons for that. First off, psychiatry and psychotherapy (and similar fields, industries related to them) are rather paternalistic and authoritarian, especially when it seeks to pathologize (similar to how the legal system and what not tries to 'criminalize' certain actions, behaviors) certain normal human behaviors and even scarier, when it comes to using the legal system (perhaps both are bedfellows with each other) to enforce it's arbitrary rules. Next, the benevolent paternalism when it comes to risk and even CTB, especially when people are trying to push for reform, for change, and to destigmatize the topic, action, and concept of CTB.

Nevertheless, I found a good video that kind of overlaps what I talk about in various threads as well as the megathread critiquing psychotherapy and psychiatry as a whole. The videos linked here are from an actual psychiatrist that even criticizes his own field (linked here and also another one here) in great depth. The second video has a long interview with a well known author of a really profound book and gives great insight into the horrors and abuses of psychiatry. While many people often deflect or feign ignorance of the ills of psychiatry (with even some defending and promoting it), these videos serve to highlight and expose the corruption and evils within those industry.

So this thread just answers the question and explains why despite SaSu being related to CTB that I cannot talk about CTB without addressing the other obstacles (psychiatry and psychotherapy) being in the way and impinging our community towards progress. Furthermore, since those fields and industries are a threat to our civil autonomy, freedoms, and personal agency, they simply just cannot be ignored. I do think if there is serious reform and change (easier said than done of course), it would be yet another step towards the 'candid' discussion of CTB and similar topics become less stigmatized and more open. In addition to that, it may also alleviate some of the burdens and fears that people (who otherwise would have been open and honest about CTB) have about being denied due process, presumed insane and unsound of mind before they have a chance to present their position, and in the end, may also result in fewer CTB attempts (both successful ones and unsuccessful ones). In the end, that would benefit both sides simultaneously (both us being able to be freer and less worry about having to sneak around language, be deceptive or discreet and dishonest for our protection, and the pro-lifers being able to live their lives and have less 'surprises' and shock as a result of prohibition).

 

[TAW122]

This isn't a new thing and perhaps I've stated before in other replies, posts, threads (don't remember which ones specifically), but one of the main gripes that I have with psychiatry and psychotherapy is the weaponization and use of it as pretext and reasoning to either ignore one's specific plights and causes, presume illness and pathologize the behavior/action/symptom rather than addressing the root cause for whatever it is, and of course the aggressive, forceful intervention over one's personal autonomy. Hence, whenever there are people who suggest therapy or something along those lines it really irks me (as well as many people on here, especially those who made up their minds regarding CTB).

This isn't to say that mental illness and other psychiatric disorders don't exist, I'm sure they do and psychiatry has it's role in society (for better or worse), but the weaponization and use as an excuse or reason by mainstream media and common people are just irritating and frustrating for reasons mentioned before.

 

[Ch4in3dcr0w]

I think the whole reform needs to happend on the law level like for example assisted suicide being legal first alot of problems with therapy comes down that its a tool that people/goverments think can "fix" people when like u said its the person that needs to decide if its worth living and if they actually want to live. The discussion on the value of life has been stopped by the geopolitical situation in the world like for example in my own country because of the ukraine/russia war the whole disscusion has been completly stopped. I think therapist with experience know what they are dealing with and what do to its the system forcing them to behave certain ways in the situations like for example my own therapist telling me when she needs to talk to my parents/ force me into a psych ward that felt like more of a warning so i dont talk about my for example plans with her because that just forces her to act even if she agrees or not. Even as im not as knowledgable as u are on this topic i wholeheartedly agree with you and wish for the changes to happend but even the law changes will take decades in a lot of countries and then u have to educate people what theraphy is really like.

 

[Alexei_Kirillov]

Thanks for sharing those videos, so sick of the "brain illness" narrative. It's unfortunate though that even someone who is so clear-eyed on the flaws of the psychiatric system still says things like "they [mental health services] are essential in acute emergencies and often provide time for professionals and loved ones to develop a plan to keep you safe" which is a paternalistic way of saying "to prevent you from committing suicide."

 

[claracatchingthebus]

Psychiatry and psychotherapy are extremely effective for people who aren't that sad or messed up.

Normal people, who suddenly take a short detour into depression or "craziness," like taking a vacation, suddenly get pampered with attention.

Yes, it's all about you. Yes I will value you, tell me what do you think it means? Here are some pills that will make you feel ever-so-slightly out of it for a month or two. You're having a real moment, you're tackling problems, you care about mental health. Aren't you great?

For people who are actually genuinely sad and/or crazy, getting mild attention and slight mild intoxication for a few months at extremely high prices does not actually do anything positive, gives them false hope, and makes them financially worse off. The psychiatrists and psychologists can't often solve the worst problems, but can certainly try, at horrible financial impact to their victims.

It's a lot like seeing a psychic. If you don't care and are looking fun fun, you'll get a performance and feel great. If you are desperate and sad you're going to get bilked.

There's just not a lot of studies on this truth. They never look at medication and therapy effectiveness when removing the 75 percent of people who want attention, feel mildly sad, and are looking to gain insight by getting to know themselves like a rich woman going to the spa.

Really, in order to do accurate studies on if these things work, they would need to remove anyone NOT suicidal from the study, but that's impossible to do because people who are genuinely suicidal are not honest about it because they don't want to get locked up, instead they want to die. Anyone admitting to being suicidal in a study is often kicked out of the study or may not be serious (because if you really want to die, why ask someone to lock you up to stop it?).

Really therapy and medication only work as forms of self-indulgence for the self-absorbed class with at least some money. It's become even a sort of status thing. Of course I have a therapist! First In went shopping, then I had my nails done, then I had a spa treatment, then I went to a therapist and they said all the people I don't like are narcissists and now I feel great about myself. Next I'm meeting a friend for sushi at a great new restaurant.

This type of client sustains the bulk of the business for these "mental health workers" also it's unclear if they are providing mental health so much as a different kind of positive experience, much in the same way it's an experience to go to a whore, a life coach, a personal stylist, a nail manicurist. Occasionally a person seeing a mental health worker loses a cat or parent, then they go on pills for a few months, get even more pampering, and yes, the system then truly works. They have been healed by the great healers, which may have happened with time anyway.

But for real sadness and real trauma, the kind that craves death, the mental health workers offer no real benefit. But they could never admit that without admitting the whole thing is a terrible fucking ruse, one that only truly fucks and exploits the most vulnerable and downtrodden. The truly vulnerable fall into the trap, and are given pills with side effects that are life altering and irreversible. The solution? Even worse pills. Feeling even worse? Time for inpatient care. The gullible are especially lured in. They have no pity, only greed and self-delusion, lying to even themselves about the "wonderful service" they provide to society.

 

[TAW122]

@claracatchingthebus Excellent post and yes, what you said really sums up the psychiatric and psychotherapy industry in general. This puts the argument that many proponents of psychiatry and forced treatment to shame, which was the "many people who were treated (against or pressured against their will) often don't go to attempt CTB again" or something along those lines and they (the pro-lifers, anti-choicers, and similar people) use that as evidence of recovery when in fact they are omitting and ignoring a lot of factors with such an argument. Their argument is flawed because they ignored the fact that:
A) The people who felt better were never really deeply sad like the way we are (not all, but most of them) similar to what you described, so their sample is already skewed from the start.
B) Consider the fact that people who claim that are incentivized to do so under duress, because if they admit to continued CTB ideation or so, they may face further incarceration.
C) Additionally, the people who are taken from the sample are those who are grateful rather than the representative demographic, meaning those who did not recover and are overrepresented. Instead, they lump all those together into one category, which means their sample is already tainted.
Overall, yes what you said is spot on, and there must be serious overhaul of the system as a whole; firstly to keep those who are truly dangerous to society (perhaps laws that already exist for those who are a threat to others not just themselves), and then for those who aren't a danger to others and only want to escape their suffering, to not be treated like criminals or detained unnecessarily. Until those changes happen, people (who are truly sad and have persistent trauma) will never be truly honest and the most desperate ones will just act (not out of malice, but desperation) on CTB, varying in results (whether successful or not) and everyone is not better off (trauma and collateral damage), the person who CTBs often suffers a lot or exits brutally.

@Alexei_Kirillov Well said and even those people cannot be safely confided in for the very reasons that you stated; and yes, as long as coercive, paternatlistic practices still exist, especially in it's current form (without any substantial changes) will still result in people not trusting them (especially the people who are determined to die). As long as there is a substantial risk of one's civil liberties and freedom being compromised under the guise of safety and benevolent paternalism, they will NEVER take the risk and still see them (the psychiatrists and mental health professionals) as the opposition. That is something that mental health professionals and those in the systems either willingly ignore or try to evade even if that was the case from the beginning.

@Ch4in3dcr0w I'm sorry to hear about that situation and yes, sadly a fair bit of those in the psychiatric and psychotherapy industry are similar to what you described; only varying of different degrees, some are more trigger happy to take action against their client, while others are less trigger happy. However, as long as the notion that the risk of benevolent paternalism and detainment against one's will exists, there will always be people who will never be fully honest and even though more people are waking up to such practices, there are still many people who are either acting in bad faith, blatantly ignoring the cause and evading the issue altogether. I absolutely agree with you, for any substantial change, there must be serious reform to the system, which would either give patients more autonomy and leverage (already it's an serious imbalance of power dynamic between patient and provider), more due process and rights, less red tape and protection to the mental health professional; at the least some sort of pathway to not have the patient's rights being impinged. Perhaps the most tyrannical (and also unfalsifiable) claim is that those who attempt or try to CTB are more at risk and such a bad faith, and misguided claim must be abolished (of course, easier said than done). As long as the mental health system and laws continue to be what they are (or become more paternalistic) there will continue to be people who won't share their true intentions with these 'professionals' and even some very desperate people who attempt (whether successfully or not) resulting in overall collateral damage to society and those around them. Sadly, many professionals will never address or acknowledge that and even if some may do, they are not doing so in good faith, but with a ulterior motive, but I digress..

 

[Ijustcantanymore]

The only thing I will say is that not believing your brain can get sick just like your body, and even suffer real damage from an illness, is ignoring reality. Mental illness is very real. Our brains are susceptible to illness from multiple factors.

I agree with your take on the mental health field though. I mean any health system that is for profit, is by it's very nature corrupt and unethical from the get go. Modern therapy and psychiatry operates on the goal of getting people into the workforce. To be a slave for the machine. Which is why I personally no longer trust it.

 

[TAW122]

True, and there are two additional points I'd like to raise here is that some of these mental illness labels are used as pretext to ignore the other underlying causes of suffering or to 'explain away' the illness rather than finding a solution (if there are any) to the problem/suffering. They use previous ailment of mental illness (whether actual or not) as a reason and fixate on that rather than focusing on the actual problems that said person is having.

Another point I'd like bring up is throughout human civilization and humankind it seems like while these problems do exist, humanity itself have somehow made it through (this isn't to undermine or downplay actual illnesses) and if these illnesses as pervasive as they are today certainly existed in the past. However, society itself did not try to normalize it or bring it to light as they do in present day, hence if this 'epidemic is really an issue', then it either means one or two things: The past there exists those mental illnesses, but are often buried and people did not talk about as much and perhaps it was lower, or in modern day, it is getting more light shined on the matter than it was in the past. In other words, if people of the ancient times made it through then perhaps the whole mental illness thing while real is perhaps overblown and overexaggerated, especially when people decide to normalize and popularize it to fit a narrative, but I digress.