Discussion Venting is Unhealthy and Can Increase Your Anxiety...?

[The Actual Devil]

The other day, I had the following video pop up in my recommended:



I've never watched his content before, and only ever heard of him on this forum.... very recently.... weird... but let's not get distracted! (Also, the URL has "op...Go...Bus" in it, lol.)

See, he goes on to discuss how bad venting is to your mental health. His points on venting:

• It can trap you in a negative mentality.
• Repeated venting creates a (bad) habit that (negatively) rewires your brain.
• Venting online creates an echo chamber of negativity.
• It hurts the relationships you have with the people you vent to.
• It perpetuates a mentality of helplessness.
• The proper way to "vent" is to ask for and accept advice and end the process by saying things that you will do to try to improve your situation.

He unironically uses the analogy of farting in a closed room to describe what venting is like and argues that it is exacerbated by the number of people involved in the vent, as though the people sympathizing with you were also farting.

Finally, he combines Eastern and Western mental health techniques and concepts to form a holistic approach to venting. He concludes that venting is always unhealthy unless it precedes action, meaning that after you vent, you must do something about your problem. Otherwise, the venting process itself will ultimately be harmful to you.

I was ready to dismiss all of this because his explanation was as threadbare as his farting analogy was strained, until I decided to study up on the subject.

Which brings me to an article published in Psychology Today. Not always the best articles, but this one backs itself up with proper sources, so I took a close look.

Why Venting May Not Actually Be Good for You

You're better off sitting on your hands than clenching your fists.

www.psychologytoday.com

Once again, this source has a rather shitty analogy, but it is entirely contained in the first section and easily skipped/skimmed.

The TL;DR is that suppressing positive emotions is unhealthy, while suppressing negative emotions is neutral; likewise, sharing positive emotions and thoughts is healthy, and sharing negative ones is unhealthy.
(To clarify, I used the terms "healthy" and "unhealthy," whereas the article uses terms like "enhanced well-being" and "lowered well-being.")

So, that's it then. If we ignore the first guy, then at worst, venting doesn't hurt, right?
...Right?

Does Venting Your Feelings Actually Help?

While letting your negative emotions out may feel good in the moment, science suggests it might make matters worse in the long run.

greatergood.berkeley.edu

Ok, this is the last article I'd like to point out in this post. Here, a doctor of psychology lists a good deal of sources while delving into the topic at hand.

Her conclusion?

Yeah, stop venting.

Her points all align with the first guy's, while imo doing a Helluva better job explaining it. She also makes one very interesting point, which you probably noticed in the title of this post:

Venting increases your anxiety.

Well, Holy Hell. That really sucks for people—like me—that love to complain.
She calls the echo chambers created by venting online "co-rumination," which, yeah, I never thought of it that way. "Echo chamber" is just a buzzword with a watered-down meaning nowadays, but "co-rumination"? Yikes. That's a bitter pill to swallow. Cripes, this whole article was a bitter pill to swallow.

One silver lining stood out among the rest: how to have a healthy vent. Essentially, you should:

1. Be allowed to vent
2. Get supportive messages to validate your feelings
3. After you cool down, you should ask for help
4. Then (ideally) you should receive some advice and engage with those people in a brainstorming session
5. Make a plan to improve your situation; type it all out and hold yourself accountable
6. Follow through with the plan

Before I wrote this, I searched throughout SaSu to see if this had ever been brought up before. Good ole' @noname223 came close with this thread:

What is the difference between calling a suicide helpline and venting on Sanctioned Suicide?

We had this topic in my self-help group. Some called helplines with different experiences. Bad and good. I told them I never called one because people online described bad experiences. My main question is: what is the difference to talk to someome whose voluntary job it is to talk to you and...

sanctioned-suicide.net

But @minamin asked about it straight-up, here:

does anyone actually feel good after venting?

So for me, I really don't like venting publicly or to other people. Especially because if you tweet "I hate my life", what is anyone else supposed to say? If you tell your friend out loud you want to CTB, they go "Noo, don't do that". And while that's a very nice sentiment, it does not change...

sanctioned-suicide.net

Alas, no conclusion was made, and no changes were suggested.

---

So SaSu: What do you think?
Should we adopt a culture of offering advice in vents, even when it isn't explicitly asked for?
Should we all put more effort into posting about the positive things in our lives, to break up the co-rumination of the echo chamber, or whatever the Hell I was talking about?
Should days-old vents be followed up on, where we ask how they are doing now, and if they have made any efforts to improve their situation, or ask if they are ready for advice?
Should we vote red because I caught him venting on cams, and also because he's been acting really sussy? Sorry, wrong type of venting.

Here's what I'm going to do (and if you follow suit, lmk if it helps you):

I will continue to (try and) NOT offer unsolicited advice, out of respect for the venter's autonomy.
I will start occasionally following up on days-old vents and respectfully ask them how they are.
I will ask if they would be receptive to advice (if they have not already asked for it) IF I can think of anything worthwhile to add.
If and when I vent, I will type it all out first, and then either:

• post it under the "Vent" tag, then make a follow-up post the next day with the "Help" tag, OR
• I will type out my vent, put the "Help" tag on it, and turn it into a scheduled post. That way, by the time it goes live, I'll be more receptive to any help I may get.

Then, I will follow up on my own vents and ask for help by typing out my actionable plan and holding myself accountable to it.

And I'm not just talking about my interactions with SaSu: I mean, I will incorporate these ideas elsewhere in my life as well. It can't hurt, can it?

Final note: some harsh reality. Yes, this is SaSu. The average user isn't here going "My boss is a dick! What should I do?" It's more like... well, you know what it's like. People are at the end of their rope. I'm under no delusion that I can "talk away" someone's chronic pain or dysphoria. But I do think we can help some people. At least the ones that don't spend the entire game camping on cams.

 

[karakoltriste]

Yes, another thing created by the psymafia to get you to give them your money and not vent to your friends or like-minded people! That's what the (p)system and capitalism want.

 

[concession]

The other day, I had the following video pop up in my recommended:



I've never watched his content before, and only ever heard of him on this forum.... very recently.... weird... but let's not get distracted! (Also, the URL has "op...Go...Bus" in it, lol.)

See, he goes on to discuss how bad venting is to your mental health. His points on venting:

• It can trap you in a negative mentality.
• Repeated venting creates a (bad) habit that (negatively) rewires your brain.
• Venting online creates an echo chamber of negativity.
• It hurts the relationships you have with the people you vent to.
• It perpetuates a mentality of helplessness.
• The proper way to "vent" is to ask for and accept advice and end the process by saying things that you will do to try to improve your situation.

He unironically uses the analogy of farting in a closed room to describe what venting is like and argues that it is exacerbated by the number of people involved in the vent, as though the people sympathizing with you were also farting.

Finally, he combines Eastern and Western mental health techniques and concepts to form a holistic approach to venting. He concludes that venting is always unhealthy unless it precedes action, meaning that after you vent, you must do something about your problem. Otherwise, the venting process itself will ultimately be harmful to you.

I was ready to dismiss all of this because his explanation was as threadbare as his farting analogy was strained, until I decided to study up on the subject.

Which brings me to an article published in Psychology Today. Not always the best articles, but this one backs itself up with proper sources, so I took a close look.

Why Venting May Not Actually Be Good for You

You're better off sitting on your hands than clenching your fists.

www.psychologytoday.com

Once again, this source has a rather shitty analogy, but it is entirely contained in the first section and easily skipped/skimmed.

The TL;DR is that suppressing positive emotions is unhealthy, while suppressing negative emotions is neutral; likewise, sharing positive emotions and thoughts is healthy, and sharing negative ones is unhealthy.
(To clarify, I used the terms "healthy" and "unhealthy," whereas the article uses terms like "enhanced well-being" and "lowered well-being.")

So, that's it then. If we ignore the first guy, then at worst, venting doesn't hurt, right?
...Right?

Does Venting Your Feelings Actually Help?

While letting your negative emotions out may feel good in the moment, science suggests it might make matters worse in the long run.

greatergood.berkeley.edu

Ok, this is the last article I'd like to point out in this post. Here, a doctor of psychology lists a good deal of sources while delving into the topic at hand.

Her conclusion?

Yeah, stop venting.

Her points all align with the first guy's, while imo doing a Helluva better job explaining it. She also makes one very interesting point, which you probably noticed in the title of this post:

Venting increases your anxiety.

Well, Holy Hell. That really sucks for people—like me—that love to complain.
She calls the echo chambers created by venting online "co-rumination," which, yeah, I never thought of it that way. "Echo chamber" is just a buzzword with a watered-down meaning nowadays, but "co-rumination"? Yikes. That's a bitter pill to swallow. Cripes, this whole article was a bitter pill to swallow.

One silver lining stood out among the rest: how to have a healthy vent. Essentially, you should:

1. Be allowed to vent
2. Get supportive messages to validate your feelings
3. After you cool down, you should ask for help
4. Then (ideally) you should receive some advice and engage with those people in a brainstorming session
5. Make a plan to improve your situation; type it all out and hold yourself accountable
6. Follow through with the plan

Before I wrote this, I searched throughout SaSu to see if this had ever been brought up before. Good ole' @noname223 came close with this thread:

What is the difference between calling a suicide helpline and venting on Sanctioned Suicide?

We had this topic in my self-help group. Some called helplines with different experiences. Bad and good. I told them I never called one because people online described bad experiences. My main question is: what is the difference to talk to someome whose voluntary job it is to talk to you and...

sanctioned-suicide.net

But @minamin asked about it straight-up, here:

does anyone actually feel good after venting?

So for me, I really don't like venting publicly or to other people. Especially because if you tweet "I hate my life", what is anyone else supposed to say? If you tell your friend out loud you want to CTB, they go "Noo, don't do that". And while that's a very nice sentiment, it does not change...

sanctioned-suicide.net

Alas, no conclusion was made, and no changes were suggested.

---

So SaSu: What do you think?
Should we adopt a culture of offering advice in vents, even when it isn't explicitly asked for?
Should we all put more effort into posting about the positive things in our lives, to break up the co-rumination of the echo chamber, or whatever the Hell I was talking about?
Should days-old vents be followed up on, where we ask how they are doing now, and if they have made any efforts to improve their situation, or ask if they are ready for advice?
Should we vote red because I caught him venting on cams, and also because he's been acting really sussy? Sorry, wrong type of venting.

Here's what I'm going to do (and if you follow suit, lmk if it helps you):

I will continue to (try and) NOT offer unsolicited advice, out of respect for the venter's autonomy.
I will start occasionally following up on days-old vents and respectfully ask them how they are.
I will ask if they would be receptive to advice (if they have not already asked for it) IF I can think of anything worthwhile to add.
If and when I vent, I will type it all out first, and then either:

• post it under the "Vent" tag, then make a follow-up post the next day with the "Help" tag, OR
• I will type out my vent, put the "Help" tag on it, and turn it into a scheduled post. That way, by the time it goes live, I'll be more receptive to any help I may get.

Then, I will follow up on my own vents and ask for help by typing out my actionable plan and holding myself accountable to it.

And I'm not just talking about my interactions with SaSu: I mean, I will incorporate these ideas elsewhere in my life as well. It can't hurt, can it?

Final note: some harsh reality. Yes, this is SaSu. The average user isn't here going "My boss is a dick! What should I do?" It's more like... well, you know what it's like. People are at the end of their rope. I'm under no delusion that I can "talk away" someone's chronic pain or dysphoria. But I do think we can help some people. At least the ones that don't spend the entire game camping on cams.

I think you are really cool for posting your structured analysis and asking those questions.

 

[Unbearable Mr. Bear]

I am sorry about the emotion fueled responses above. They have been deleted. I was an asshole. I am sorry.

 

[Pluto]

 

[karakoltriste]

I am sorry about the emotion fueled responses above. They have been deleted. I was an asshole. I am sorry.

You are not an asshole, i dont understand why they deleted it

 

[Unbearable Mr. Bear]

You are not an asshole, i dont understand why they deleted it

I deleted them. I wrote them in the middle of a panic attack. I was not of sound mind.

But thanks for the kindness. I just...am just too sensitive for this mad world.

 

[JustAGuyImsorry]

I think this resonates with me a lot, having said that, venting about my relationship here (on this site) coming to an end and expressing why I was feeling helpless and lost, actually made a lot of people reach out and help me understand that my perception may not be accurate due to heightened emotional distress. So I gave it more time and well I'm still here, slowly starting to accept this new reality. I suppose that's action thought isn't it….

 

[leloyon]

Yeah, uh, that's cool and all. I don't care. I don't fucking care, I have shit that I will likely never get over, and talking about it sometimes makes me feel better.
(not attacking you, Lucy, just criticising the medical idiots spewing this bile).

Should we adopt a culture of offering advice in vents, even when it isn't explicitly asked for?

No. I would, in fact, argue that this is specifically one of the biggest reasons why people come here in the first place, to get away from this kinda shit.

 

[cemeteryismyhome]

After awhile you see the "expert advice" go around and around and around, and then you get jaded and call it all B.S. Venting for example. First it was good for you, then not. Every other day something is good, bad, good, bad. It's so stupid.

 

[WhiteRabbit]

Venting online creates an echo chamber of negativity.

This whole site, lol.

 

[DarkShadows]

It's nice to vent without the toxic positivity and people 'worrying' which makes me not want to vent on mainstream sites because I know my inbox will be flooded with people asking if I'm "safe" and telling me that this is temporary. Idc if no one responds to me I mainly want to get it off my chest. I'd rather no one respond than have stupid NPC messages. I like when people can relate with what I'm saying. I often feel so alone in the way I feel.

 

[livershapedbox]

Venting to a good friend: bad
Paid venting to a stranger with a superiority complex that will dismiss any problems as just a mindset issue: good

 

[WhatCouldHaveBeen32]

DR K is a feel good sham for the people who either had some small depression or had random chemicals behave wrong so meds actually worked. I've never seen him work with an actual depressed person that suffered from rape emotional abuse, child abuse, etc. And those that he treats convert into his feel good army that dismisses other people, it's literally a cult post depression where you start giving out shitty advice to keep your own bubble up and running.

Truth = ban on the internet so I can't say that outside of here . But that goes for every psychiatrist psychologist, oh just be careful for your problem to NOT BE out of control already because we can't do anything about it but we'll never tell you that; come talk to us and try these stupid methods of treatment and coping bullshit that only work if you are NOT AWARE.

Oh, sorry? the strategies and coping mechanisms aren't working? here take some medication that will fuck you up because you don't actually have any chemical imbalance, you just got fucked in life , sorry it is what it is but I must preserve the status quo so while I can't really help you personally, your file says that you perfectly fit the depression diagnosis so I'll treat you for that, that will be 100 euros.

They can suck it.

 

[The Actual Devil]

Yes, another thing created by the psymafia to get you to give them your money and not vent to your friends or like-minded people! That's what the (p)system and capitalism want.

That's not what I meant by this. Healthy venting is free and can exist between friends and peers.

I think this resonates with me a lot, having said that, venting about my relationship here (on this site) coming to an end and expressing why I was feeling helpless and lost, actually made a lot of people reach out and help me understand that my perception may not be accurate due to heightened emotional distress. So I gave it more time and well I'm still here, slowly starting to accept this new reality. I suppose that's action thought isn't it….

Hey, sounds like you did it "right" (if there is such a thing). Thank you for your feedback and your story! I'm glad you were able to find some personal growth as a result of your vent. *^____^*

Yeah, uh, that's cool and all. I don't care. I don't fucking care, I have shit that I will likely never get over, and talking about it sometimes makes me feel better.
(not attacking you, Lucy, just criticising the medical idiots spewing this bile).

No. I would, in fact, argue that this is specifically one of the biggest reasons why people come here in the first place, to get away from this kinda shit.

To your second part, I agree. I just wanted to hear what others took away from it. And to your first part, I, well, also agree. Like I said at the end, many are here on SaSu are because they have shit that cannot be "talked through." I am under no delusion that the concept of "healthy venting" can be helpful to everyone. I just wanted to present this information to the people here in the hopes that it will connect with people who might find it useful.
Think I should ask a mod to change the title? In hindsight, it comes off as a bit..."clickbaity." Also, should I ask to have it moved to Recovery?

Thank you, Pluto ^.^

Venting to a good friend: bad
Paid venting to a stranger with a superiority complex that will dismiss any problems as just a mindset issue: good

Yeah, that's what the guy in the video said. Like I said, I don't like his takes. You can engage in healthy venting for free with friends, peers, or in forums, as I went on to explain.

After awhile you see the "expert advice" go around and around and around, and then you get jaded and call it all B.S. Venting for example. First it was good for you, then not. Every other day something is good, bad, good, bad. It's so stupid.

That reminds me of a stand-up comedy routine from a long time ago. I think it was Denis Leary's No Cure for Cancer. He said, "First they tell us that eggs are good for us, then they tell us that they're bad. Now they're trying to tell us, 'Well, actually the white parts are good, but the yolks are bad...' Would you make up your minds! C'mon! I'm just trying to have breakfast here!"
The last article talks about exactly what you said. In the past, we were told to get our negative emotions out and vent them away, lest they build up and explode. Turns out, that was a complete guess: i.e. total horseshit. I actually found that out years ago from, I want to say, either Penn & Teller's Bullshit or Freakonomics? They discovered that people who punch a pillow when they're mad, to "get it out," end up as angrier people overall compared to a control group. I'm pretty sure this was in one of the first seasons of The Simpsons as well. They wire their brains to use venting and violence as a stress response. The last article cites a formal study that confirms this.
Anyway, I at least can't see the harm in being proactive after a vent, unless you're positive you've run out of options, as I said at the end of the first post, and @leloyon confirmed.

This whole site, lol.

I was actually wondering if you'd pop by. I'm glad you did. Thank you.

It's nice to vent without the toxic positivity and people 'worrying' which makes me not want to vent on mainstream sites because I know my inbox will be flooded with people asking if I'm "safe" and telling me that this is temporary. Idc if no one responds to me I mainly want to get it off my chest. I'd rather no one respond than have stupid NPC messages. I like when people can relate with what I'm saying. I often feel so alone in the way I feel.

I agree completely. I never wrote on Reddit myself before, but I'd sometimes look through r/suicidewatch when I was thinking of CTB. The "Just let jesus/allah/whoever into your heart" platitudes made me want to kill myself even harder.
But, if someone did want to help you with a problem, like, if was very similar to some shit they're been through themselves and just want to offer their perspective, what would be the most respectful way they could ask you if you wanted advice? If "I never want advice" is your first answer, then what would be the way they could approach you that would piss you off the least? (Seriously, I know that sounds weird, but I'd just like to learn how to avoid overstepping.)

DR K is a feel good sham for the people who either had some small depression or had random chemicals behave wrong so meds actually worked. I've never seen him work with an actual depressed person that suffered from rape emotional abuse, child abuse, etc. And those that he treats convert into his feel good army that dismisses other people, it's literally a cult post depression where you start giving out shitty advice to keep your own bubble up and running.

Truth = ban on the internet so I can't say that outside of here . But that goes for every psychiatrist psychologist, oh just be careful for your problem to NOT BE out of control already because we can't do anything about it but we'll never tell you that; come talk to us and try these stupid methods of treatment and coping bullshit that only work if you are NOT AWARE.

Oh, sorry? the strategies and coping mechanisms aren't working? here take some medication that will fuck you up because you don't actually have any chemical imbalance, you just got fucked in life , sorry it is what it is but I must preserve the status quo so while I can't really help you personally, your file says that you perfectly fit the depression diagnosis so I'll treat you for that, that will be 100 euros.

They can suck it.

I agree with you about Dr. K. I think he's a shill. For what, I'm not sure. Himself most likely.
That's why my conclusion is about what individuals, forums, and support groups can do for each other. For free. No meds or pill-pushers needed. And if your problems are unsolvable, then I don't see any harm in a typical "unhealthy" (massive quotes) vent. Even if the article is right, and venting normally increases anxiety, what threat is that to people whose anxiety is already at max? It reminds me of how terminal velocity works: once you're falling as fast as you can, what does it matter if the ground gets any further away or closer?

---

And to everyone in general:
I understand it might cause a feeling of animosity or even resentment, seeing this information from the perspective of someone who is at a dead end, presented by someone in Recovery. It must feel like being stranded on a deserted island while a ship sails by in the distance (I know for many that is a pleasant fantasy, but for the sake of argument, let's pretend it is your nightmare). I am sorry if it triggers anyone. It's like I said to @leloyon: this was presented for the people it might be able to help, and to generate discussion. Discussion, namely, to refine the steps I laid out. But of course, I welcome all relevant discourse. Sincerely. o(*￣▽￣*)ブ

 

[vitbar]

I realised this was a big part of my downward spirals. It's not even like there can be a positive outcome. I tell someone about my issues/concerns and they either agree things are hopeless, which feels horrible, or they are positive and give advice, which is annoying and makes me feel unheard.

Sometimes the advice would be good, but a new issue would always replace it.

 

[The Actual Devil]

I realised this was a big part of my downward spirals. It's not even like there can be a positive outcome. I tell someone about my issues/concerns and they either agree things are hopeless, which feels horrible, or they are positive and give advice, which is annoying and makes me feel unheard.

Sometimes the advice would be good, but a new issue would always replace it.

Things can be repetitive, can't they? Life's challenges, the endless days, and me. (Just a little humor in there, if you're up for it. But I really do hear you.)
I've seen you around here, and I always find your comments to be thoughtful. You also help people pretty frequently with your insights. You are appreciated; I mean that.
I hope you find a way to break the cycle and live a peaceful life. You deserve it.

 

[thereisnoneed]

i believe we should not overdo it, and we should learn how to face our own problems, given that everyone has enough problems as it is, not to say you must not vent to your friends and such, but you should not do it too much that you burden them with your troubles, your friends listen to your issues and you listen to theirs, but there still should be a limit to how often you vent to one another.

 

[leloyon]

Think I should ask a mod to change the title? In hindsight, it comes off as a bit..."clickbaity."

Meh, title is fine, tongzhi.

Also, should I ask to have it moved to Recovery?

That... may work better, although I feel it's fine here. Up to you, really.

 

[Forveleth]

I have been mulling this over since I saw the post yesterday and I think my answer is "it depends":

There are times where I just want to tell someone about my shitty day and have another human go "yeah dude, that sucks". But I know there are also situations where I am just voicing a negative thought loop that I am stuck in and anything agreeing with me is not doing me any favors. I need something to kick me out of the loop and get me to stop fixating on it.

I think it can be good if you get the right match of the intentions of the poster with the replies they get. Someone reaching out via their vent getting a good reply (whatever that may be in context) is extremely helpful. But shitty advice or a poster not being receptive to advice can make things worse for them.

 

[GhostInTheMachine]

I've seen people that do nothing but vent and are never better after it, but I don't think that's been an issue with venting itself. When I vent to my BF (and vice versa), I tend to feel better afterwards because we're both on the same page and wavelength, so we can actually get our frustrations off of each other's shoulders. I've found that I don't need to vent as much because of him, since when I get upset, I'm able to just acknowledge it and move on since I've already unburdened myself of it before.

A lot of people just vent, and then continue to carry that weight on their backs which defeats the point of venting to begin with. You just become a factory for negative emotions since venting isn't even a step towards a resolution in such a case. You then just pelt everybody around you with those emotions and now nobody wants to deal with you, which makes you want to vent more, and so on. Obviously some problems will persist even after venting, and that's ok, but one must learn how to vent, and why they should or shouldn't. I'm highly skeptical of anybody who speaks in absolutes when they say something IS bad, or IS good. Water is good until it drowns me.