SN seller Kenneth Law pleads guilty

[Dot]

So the dad who said something like " I didn't have to worry about Tom CTB because he wanted a painless method and there aren't any" I found a bit shocking. Just to think your only focus is well he's trapped here so he won't be able to do it, I found so unempathetic. Just how it came across to me.

Th/ perspctve tht slf gt frm tht commnt = tht if u belive tht sme1 = in temprry crsis thn = mre of 'protectve factr' e.g 'thy r sfe fr nw' as opposd 2 hm b-ing insenstve -- tht = jst slf pov frm xpernce

The lady who was on a previous documentary Emma talking about buying from Law and then surviving her attempt-I was shocked to hear she had now CTB. She blamed KL for making it so easy for her to attempt but it seems like she found another way to do it (I presume) since then.

Slf remmbr hr - tht = v sd

 

[lesserbohemian]

@lesserbohemian OK so I've listened to almost all of it-and actually I thought it was excellent, and not nearly as pro-life as I expected. I was impressed and it was a really interesting listen.

A few thoughts-I can't believe the person who ordered SN then told pro-lifers all about it, including the tracking number! Then when they failed to get the package stopped by the postage system, told the pro-lifers that the package had arrived. OK so maybe it's because I've not experienced an acute crisis but it just made me think what was the point in ordering SN and then telling everyone about it? You know they're going to get it taken off you. Anyway I'm glad they got the help they need and if it was more a cry for attention then I'm very glad they told someone.

So the dad who said something like " I didn't have to worry about Tom CTB because he wanted a painless method and there aren't any" I found a bit shocking. Just to think your only focus is well he's trapped here so he won't be able to do it, I found so unempathetic. Just how it came across to me.

The lady who was on a previous documentary Emma talking about buying from Law and then surviving her attempt-I was shocked to hear she had now CTB. She blamed KL for making it so easy for her to attempt but it seems like she found another way to do it (I presume) since then.

Ashtyn's mother sounded like she'd really tried to understand the mindset of a depressed person and accepted it was her son's decision. Bless her. I found her a lot more understanding that the other parents.

What did you think, have you had a chance to listen to it all?

I have only listened to the two episodes out on Apple podcasts but I've heard they're all on youtube- I was told they do actually interview people who had positive experiences on the site in the last episode so I'm happy about that!

I get what you mean about Tom's dad- he's just so British to me but if I really wanted to save my kid and wasn't surprised at his death, I'd like to think I would've done more to try to connect with and understand him.

It is a really well made podcast in general, I only listened by chance as S1 was so good (but very very dark, all of the content warnings you can imagine), so this one was a shock when they started to allude to this website and it was somewhere I had actually frequented!

 

[X-sanguinate86]

A lot of people - probably most - who end up suicidal had shitty parents in one way or another. And for youths, even when it isn't directly related to the parents it's a failure on their part if they can't maintain decent awareness of their child and take adequate steps to try to address the root problem. I don't write this to make them feel worse but to be fair, they are part of the problem in most suicides. People who encourage irresponsible parents are part of the problem.

As for KL, I don't know how much time he got but if I compare him to a lot of criminals I see him on the lower end of the evil scale. At worst he's like a callous drug dealer who ruins/takes lives to make easy money. Not the same as someone who'd actually kill you with their own hands. Not a sadist just based on what we know. And this is assuming he had no ethical reasons in his mind for why he sold it (ie people should have the right to a peaceful way out of this world).

 

[lesserbohemian]

As for KL, I don't know how much time he got but if I compare him to a lot of criminals I see him on the lower end of the evil scale. At worst he's like a callous drug dealer who ruins/takes lives to make easy money. Not the same as someone who'd actually kill you with their own hands. Not a sadist just based on what we know. And this is assuming he had no ethical reasons in his mind for why he sold it (ie people should have the right to a peaceful way out of this world).

Not when children were involved imo. He was just out for money as far as I can see

 

[betternever2havbeen]

Th/ perspctve tht slf gt frm tht commnt = tht if u belive tht sme1 = in temprry crsis thn = mre of 'protectve factr' e.g 'thy r sfe fr nw' as opposd 2 hm b-ing insenstve -- tht = jst slf pov frm xpernce



Slf remmbr hr - tht = v sd

Yeah good point. It came across like we don't have to worry our kid is suicidal because he can't do anything about it-but that's probably not what he meant at all. It's kind of risky to rely on that thought process though.

I was shocked about Emma. I was sceptical she wouldn't have the same thoughts again despite saying she was doing better after that attempt but no way did I expect to hear she had actually CTB

I have only listened to the two episodes out on Apple podcasts but I've heard they're all on youtube- I was told they do actually interview people who had positive experiences on the site in the last episode so I'm happy about that!

I get what you mean about Tom's dad- he's just so British to me but if I really wanted to save my kid and wasn't surprised at his death, I'd like to think I would've done more to try to connect with and understand him.

It is a really well made podcast in general, I only listened by chance as S1 was so good (but very very dark, all of the content warnings you can imagine), so this one was a shock when they started to allude to this website and it was somewhere I had actually frequented!

Yeah I listened to the last bit and they did interview a guy who said this site needs to stay in the very last episode-they really really covered everything and talked to so many people for it. It was really well done and I was so glad they actually talked to someone who said this site had helped them. And a psychologist(?) who said yes talking things over in a place like this can be positive for many people whilst acknowledging some of the potential dangers for others. They definitely treated the whole thing in a balanced way which was hugely surprising and refreshing!

Yeah Tom's dad I dunno, he says he knew as soon as he saw the police what had happened (not an accident or anywhere else your mind would go but suicide) that tells me on some level he had to know this was sadly a possibility. It's just such a stark contrast to see him accept his son was struggling for years and then say KL effectively murdered him...

 

[houseofleaves]

Why would I care what his position is on the subject of suicide? It makes no difference to me as a customer who wants his product. He's not forcing me to ingest the substance. It's still my choice to die, whether he sells it to me or the local diy store sells me a rope and a ladder.

YES and THIS so much. People are somehow so hang up on the topic of whether he was smart or kind or whatever. I fail to see how this matters.

Even if you want to describe suicide as selfish, it's still someone making a personal choice about their own existence. It's much more selfish to force people into existence, and then tell them they're not allowed to leave even if they're miserable or in terrible pain. And to also make that decision about millions of people, whom you've never even met or never experienced their life or endured any of their pain or suffering. You can't just assume everyone's suffering is the same… it clearly isn't.

Suicide doesn't always have to be the answer. But it also shouldn't be a forbidden option. And there shouldn't be gatekeepers like you, who want to decide for others what is the right choice in their life…

If you want to help people… then go ahead… help… but don't demand that people should wait around for some undefinable period of time hoping you or someone else can pull a magic silver bullet out of your ass and fix all of their problems for them.

All because YOU "don't like" people killing themselves.

Frankly, who gives a flying fuck about likes and dislikes. What matters is the suffering people of this world, and having the option to gracefully exit when that suffering becomes too much…

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