SN seller Kenneth Law pleads guilty

[GT Darkarage]

I just wish this notice becomes internationally known. It is just because a lot of countries have the same numbers for people who commits suicide and this notice sure could help so many ways.

I mean, to increase the chaos around it. For people to become more awareness, for suicidals to become more.

I don't want people to die exactly or suffer. Just that this type of news will sure someday show how important is for other to have an option to choose and not to make a huge drama over it.

 

[thefirstluminary]

Unless a caring person prevents you and keeps you alive, until the very end of your natural life because they want other people to stay alive.

SaSu lives in these gray areas because imo, it's possible to believe that people have the right to do what they want with their own lives, while also thinking that KL was a predatory and opportunistic dick.

And also hope and want other people to get better, life a good life, deserve opportunities and support while also realizing that it's not that simple for everyone. And that those who are done with life do not deserve to end in violence and isolation.

I seriously don't know at this point man this whole pro-choice thingy just doesn't make sense it's just... not right
@rainwillneverstop thanks for ts btw ♥

Everything about being dead is safe. Nothing can hurt you when you're dead, literally 1,000's of things can (and do) hurt you when you're alive.

Why would I care what his position is on the subject of suicide? It makes no difference to me as a customer who wants his product. He's not forcing me to ingest the substance. It's still my choice to die, whether he sells it to me or the local diy store sells me a rope and a ladder.

And many people's decision to leave this life, is a rational decision. Trying to paint suicidal people as being irrational and not thinking clearly, is the classic strategy from pro-lifers to give them the excuse to deny people autonomy over their own body/life. It's a BS tired worn out strategy that everyone sees through at this point…



But nobody needs to come back from death… lol.. dead people have no "needs". You only need happiness, because unhappiness exists. But dead people do not need either of them.

Even if you want to describe suicide as selfish, it's still someone making a personal choice about their own existence. It's much more selfish to force people into existence, and then tell them they're not allowed to leave even if they're miserable or in terrible pain. And to also make that decision about millions of people, whom you've never even met or never experienced their life or endured any of their pain or suffering. You can't just assume everyone's suffering is the same… it clearly isn't.

Suicide doesn't always have to be the answer. But it also shouldn't be a forbidden option. And there shouldn't be gatekeepers like you, who want to decide for others what is the right choice in their life…

If you want to help people… then go ahead… help… but don't demand that people should wait around for some undefinable period of time hoping you or someone else can pull a magic silver bullet out of your ass and fix all of their problems for them.

All because YOU "don't like" people killing themselves.

Frankly, who gives a flying fuck about likes and dislikes. What matters is the suffering people of this world, and having the option to gracefully exit when that suffering becomes too much…

ok

 

[Surek]

I wonder what happened over the course of nearly four weeks that made us shift from a position like:

but you still gonna die at some point it's like saying live your life to the fullest or something and then what just nothing? some people lived their whole life suffering and then bam they are dead now why even being attracted to the current life if it's all pain and gonna end at some point

to one like:

It's grim, but I don't want people to kill themselves. I hate the idea of them dying, even if they think it's just going to be eternal suffering or whatever. I wish they would just stick around. Aren't we all suffering? We're all going to die at some point anyway

---

Wanting a person's life to improve and for them to DECIDE to keep living is not a bad thing
Wanting a person's life to improve and FORCING them to keep living is a bad thing

---

Depriving a person of their right to choose and imposing alternatives on them just because you feel like it, because you think you know better, because things "might" get better in the future, or because certain vulnerable individuals happen to get caught in the crossfire - that is unjustified paternalism and cruelty

You cannot guarantee that things will get better for a person, and you will face no consequences if the life of the person you forced to live does not improve, causing them to continue suffering or ultimately commit suicide

---

People are forced to live as if life were some kind of casino, and in this casino, they are FORCED to keep playing to the bitter end in hopes of winning

But the chips aren't free, and those who are forced to "play" don't just pull them out of thin air. They have to borrow them - paying either with their own time and suffering, or at the expense of their loved ones, which brings pain to both the individual and their family. More often than not, it's a combination of both

---

On a separate note, I am sick of the hypocrisy of so-called "protecting vulnerable individuals" and "protecting CHILDREN", which are often lumped together into one big mess
Under these slogans, they pass ban after ban, restriction after restriction, and refuse to accept any criticism because, "What, are you against CHILDREN?!"

"I will kill CHILDREN in the name of CHILDREN!" - that is how I see it. This achieves nothing except making life worse for everyone else. But hey, at least the kiddies are safe (!!!)

---

Neither SN nor these sellers are the root cause. They are simply the result of where society is at right now

People wouldn't be poisoning themselves with SN or buying it from shady characters if they had a peaceful way out, and if alternatives were offered rather than forced upon them. I am certain that, in such a scenario, more people would actually try to turn their lives around before ending them

And I can say the same about those "vulnerable individuals" - if this were the case, there would be no Kenneth Laws whose products somehow ended up in the hands of "vulnerable individuals", nor would such sellers be seen as a "necessary evil" without which things would be even worse

 

[thefirstluminary]

I wonder what happened over the course of nearly four weeks that made us shift from a position like:

to one like:

---

Wanting a person's life to improve and for them to DECIDE to keep living is not a bad thing
Wanting a person's life to improve and FORCING them to keep living is a bad thing

---

Depriving a person of their right to choose and imposing alternatives on them just because you feel like it, because you think you know better, because things "might" get better in the future, or because certain vulnerable individuals happen to get caught in the crossfire - that is unjustified paternalism and cruelty

You cannot guarantee that things will get better for a person, and you will face no consequences if the life of the person you forced to live does not improve, causing them to continue suffering or ultimately commit suicide

---

People are forced to live as if life were some kind of casino, and in this casino, they are FORCED to keep playing to the bitter end in hopes of winning

But the chips aren't free, and those who are forced to "play" don't just pull them out of thin air. They have to borrow them - paying either with their own time and suffering, or at the expense of their loved ones, which brings pain to both the individual and their family. More often than not, it's a combination of both

---

On a separate note, I am sick of the hypocrisy of so-called "protecting vulnerable individuals" and "protecting CHILDREN", which are often lumped together into one big mess
Under these slogans, they pass ban after ban, restriction after restriction, and refuse to accept any criticism because, "What, are you against CHILDREN?!"

"I will kill CHILDREN in the name of CHILDREN!" - that is how I see it. This achieves nothing except making life worse for everyone else. But hey, at least the kiddies are safe (!!!)

---

Neither SN nor these sellers are the root cause. They are simply the result of where society is at right now

People wouldn't be poisoning themselves with SN or buying it from shady characters if they had a peaceful way out, and if alternatives were offered rather than forced upon them. I am certain that, in such a scenario, more people would actually try to turn their lives around before ending them

And I can say the same about those "vulnerable individuals" - if this were the case, there would be no Kenneth Laws whose products somehow ended up in the hands of "vulnerable individuals", nor would such sellers be seen as a "necessary evil" without which things would be even worse

Don't go stalking my history just to prove a point. Yeah, I was kinda talking about myself in that post because that is honestly how I see my life playing out. I know it's wrong I know it goes against everything, especially my beliefs but I'm still willing to do it regardless. I'm here to ctb, after all.

It's just weird... I can't accept the idea of letting people die just like that, even if they have the free will to choose it. I care. I don't want people to suffer. I read posts from users here every day and it genuinely makes me cry, especially the goodbye threads. It's funny, I guess, considering I'll end up making one of those threads myself at some point

I don't know man I'm losing my mind currently I don't know wtf is wrong me I can't think straight anymore I just be saying shit :( nothing is right nothing make sense everything is lame everything is retarded

 

[Surek]

The road to hell is paved with good intentions...

 

[Hystearical]

You can't come back from death. I'd rather force someone to stay alive for a possibility of happiness than let them make a permanent decision based on pain that might pass. Call caring selfish if it helps you sleep at night, but don't forget suicide is considered selfish too, right?
So why can't the pro-lifers be selfish? Why can't they drag you in and make you live? They suffer too probably just as much as you and they still endure it. You chose the easy way out. I don't think someone who loved you would like the fact that you want to ctb. They'd rather do anything to keep you, even if it means forcing you to be alive. If you're selfish, they can be selfish too.
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Look, with respect this is a paternalistic take that is not as humane as you think. No matter how intractable or unameliorable someone's pain is, how shit the QOL is , or how consistent and unyielding the desire to die, you'll "force" (because that sure is conducive to well-being!) someone to remain alive for someone. For what? Some dim, amorphous hope that you could never identify? For the vague possibility of improvement, no matter remote(especially considering the general complex constellation of problems that people here generally have)?

I know you are new and not familiar with everyone who regularly contributes here but there is not a small number of users who are pretty damn unequivocal about their desire to die. Read this note. Does it sound humane to have wanted to someone like that to remain alive?

Life isn't going to be a picnic all the time for even those with the most charmed lives but it's patently untrue that everybody suffers to the same degree. And even if they did and chose to endure, what exactly is the relevance of that to someone's decision or desire to not endure it? There is none.

You're right in what you alluded to. Life is all about competing interests at every turn. But if someone's loved one is constantly suffering, always miserable and crying, complaining about their pain and always talking about wanting to die, even deeply loving someone, how could someone ultimately find that preferable? It seems the most humane thing is to let them go. Yeah that is horrible but life is sometimes.

In light of everything you've written here I am not sure participating in this forum is in your interest (you should be okay with other people's opining what it is in your interest or not). That's not me picking on you. My objections to this post notwithstanding I actually was in agreement with you about not rushing to blame the family members for being unable to help or ignoring their deceased loved one's pain before they killed themselves.

 

[thefirstluminary]

You're right in what you alluded to. Life is all about competing interests at every turn. But if someone's loved one is constantly suffering, always miserable and crying, complaining about their pain and always talking about wanting to die, even deeply loving someone, how could someone ultimately find that preferable? It seems the most humane thing is to let them go. Yeah that is horrible but life is sometimes.

come to think of it... it is true I always got hated by everyone for being so negative and talking about how much I want to end my life and how it's gonna be peaceful I heard people like that can be draining to be dealt with maybe what they said is true but still... if someone was close to me who was suffering I just can't let them go like that even if it's best for him that idea is just so cruel to me it is inhumane like you said I just can't

In light of everything you've written here I am not sure participating in this forum is in your interest (you should be okay with me saying that). That's not me picking on you. My objections to this post notwithstanding I actually was in agreement with you about not rushing to blame the family members for being unable to help or ignoring their deceased loved one's pain before they killed themselves.

if I stop using this forum I will have no other place to be in I got nobody I got no one this is the only place that I can as open as dumb as vulnerable as I can be which is my true self you know I'm always angry when I'm alone and... this kinda the only place I feel like myself despite hating it