Plastic bag method that might actually be great

[BlissfulEnigma]

So, not long ago I posted about a potential method which involves hyperventilating followed by taping your mouth and nose shut. The hyperventilation part SHOULD lower CO2 enough to experience a hypoxic blackout, but I realized that 1. The tape might move around and let air in due to unconscious conclusions, and 2. I don't have strong tape around anyways. But what's it you used a plastic bag instead? So you hyperventilate until your CO2 levels are extremely low, then you place the bag over your head and tighten it as much as possible. It might be bit more complex than that, but how would this not be effective assuming the bag is airtight and for the most part airless?

 

[muu]

always poses the risk of brain damage if found, and it's hard to guarantee it would kill

 

[Jello Biafra]

So, not long ago I posted about a potential method which involves hyperventilating followed by taping your mouth and nose shut. The hyperventilation part SHOULD lower CO2 enough to experience a hypoxic blackout, but I realized that 1. The tape might move around and let air in due to unconscious conclusions, and 2. I don't have strong tape around anyways. But what's it you used a plastic bag instead? So you hyperventilate until your CO2 levels are extremely low, then you place the bag over your head and tighten it as much as possible. It might be bit more complex than that, but how would this not be effective assuming the bag is airtight and for the most part airless?

I don't want to rain on your parade, but this is almost certainly not going to work. Passing out from hyperventilation, or holding your breath for a long time, only lasts for a few seconds. You will most certainly regain consciousness and begin to struggle - especially if you use a plastic bag. Once respiration resumes, the bag is going to fill with slowly rising levels of co2, which in turn is going to activate your body's hypercapnic response. Meaning you will tear the bag off of your head unless you have an extreme amount of willpower.

You would be better off introducing some type of asphyxiant to the plastic bag, which will induce unconsciousness and therefore bypass the hypercapnia.

 

[BlissfulEnigma]

I don't want to rain on your parade, but this is almost certainly not going to work. Passing out from hyperventilation, or holding your breath for a long time, only lasts for a few seconds. You will most certainly regain consciousness and begin to struggle - especially if you use a plastic bag. Once respiration resumes, the bag is going to fill with slowly rising levels of co2, which in turn is going to activate your body's hypercapnic response. Meaning you will tear the bag off of your head unless you have an extreme amount of willpower.

You would be better off introducing some type of asphyxiant to the plastic bag, which will induce unconsciousness and therefore bypass the hypercapnia.

Well I'd appreciate if you could elaborate. When you make the claim that unconsciousness lasts just a few seconds, can you explain how that happens? Because to me it wouldn't make sense for your oxygen to reach such low levels and then suddenly rise back up after a "few seconds". And again, the bag is ideally so tight that there is a negligible amount of air that you could theoretically breathe in. Maybe you're just criticizing the use of hyperventilation alone to cause unconsciousness , but what I'm saying is that if you also utilize a tight plastic bag around your head (AND very crucially, holding your breath as long as you can as soon the hyperventilation is done), then I don't see why you go from consciousness to unconscious and THEN back to consciousness.


Edit: looking back, I really should've added that it is CRUCIAL that right after you hyperventilate, you must exhale all the air out (or as much as possible) and HOLD it like that while securing/tightening the bag over your head. Obviously if you just hyperventilate and tighten a bag over your head, you will breathe in more oxygen as a result and I would not trust that.

 

[Jello Biafra]

Well I'd appreciate if you could elaborate. When you make the claim that unconsciousness lasts just a few seconds, can you explain how that happens? Because to me it wouldn't make sense for your oxygen to reach such low levels and then suddenly rise back up after a "few seconds". And again, the bag is ideally so tight that there is a negligible amount of air that you could theoretically breathe in. Maybe you're just criticizing the use of hyperventilation alone to cause unconsciousness , but what I'm saying is that if you also utilize a tight plastic bag around your head (AND very crucially, holding your breath as long as you can as soon the hyperventilation is done), then I don't see why you go from consciousness to unconscious and THEN back to consciousness.


Edit: looking back, I really should've added that it is CRUCIAL that right after you hyperventilate, you must exhale all the air out (or as much as possible) and HOLD it like that while securing/tightening the bag over your head. Obviously if you just hyperventilate and tighten a bag over your head, you will breathe in more oxygen as a result and I would not trust that.

If you do some searches on the forum, you will find a wealth of information about people who have tried this.

Unconsciousness is short lived because you have approx. 5 liters of oxygenated blood circulating throughout your body. It would take approximately 4 minutes, assuming you have no additional oxygen supply, to be in a state where you lose consciousness. As long as your heart is still beating, your brain is still getting oxygen.

Free divers hyperventilate and are able to hold their breath for a very long time. Typically, they only lose consciousness after several minutes and due to the depressurization of the lungs, ie., going from deep water to shallow water. If they simply passed out immediately due to not having the urge to breathe, they would die.

You can certainly do what you feel is best, just trying to offer my 2 cents. YMMV

 

[BlissfulEnigma]

If you do some searches on the forum, you will find a wealth of information about people who have tried this.

Unconsciousness is short lived because you have approx. 5 liters of oxygenated blood circulating throughout your body. It would take approximately 4 minutes, assuming you have no additional oxygen supply, to be in a state where you lose consciousness. As long as your heart is still beating, your brain is still getting oxygen.

Free divers hyperventilate and are able to hold their breath for a very long time. Typically, they only lose consciousness after several minutes and due to the depressurization of the lungs, ie., going from deep water to shallow water. If they simply passed out immediately due to not having the urge to breathe, they would die.

You can certainly do what you feel is best, just trying to offer my 2 cents. YMMV

Umm a normal person can hold their breath for 4 minutes with hyperventilation (or pass out before then, which is what you want). And shallow water blackout specifically does not depend on pressure change that compresses and decompresses the lungs. All kinds of people have died from SWB in accidental situations, so I don't see your point holding up. But if there are threads you can point me to that have tried to do something similar to what I'm suggesting, then I'm more than willing to look into those sources. I appreciate your comments though, so thank you for that. I'm gonna CTB in the next few days, so i need something that is quick and painless (i would use inert gas, but i don't have access to it)

 

[Jello Biafra]

Umm a normal person can hold their breath for 4 minutes with hyperventilation (or pass out before then, which is what you want). And shallow water blackout specifically does not depend on pressure change that compresses and decompresses the lungs. All kinds of people have died from SWB in accidental situations, so I don't see your point holding up. But if there are threads you can point me to that have tried to do something similar to what I'm suggesting, then I'm more than willing to look into those sources. I appreciate your comments though, so thank you for that. I'm gonna CTB in the next few days, so i need something that is quick and painless (i would use inert gas, but i don't have access to it)

You can hold your breath for 4 minutes after hyperventilating? That's pretty extraordinary and not something I would think most people could do.

I mean, it kind of doesn't make sense unless I'm misunderstanding you. If you are able to do that, did you pass out? Obviously you are still here, which would indicate you passed out and resumed respiration. All of that oxygenated blood is then going to convert to oxygen and carbon, or, co2, filling the bag with such.

We'll have to agree to disagree about swb. I was not saying that it relies solely on the depressurization of the lungs. It's a combination of factors and the initial pressure the lungs undergo at depth is one of several physiological components that enables the diver to even hold their breath long enough to cause hypoxia.
There have been many discussions here by people who have entertained using hyperventilation as a way to ctb - mostly in conjunction with drowning. To my knowledge, nobody has been successful with this.

I was simply offering my opinion based on what I've read here, which, as stated, been discussed from time to time. You certainly have the right to do what you feel is best.

I do hope you find the peace you are after, whatever that may be.

 

[BlissfulEnigma]

You can hold your breath for 4 minutes after hyperventilating? That's pretty extraordinary and not something I would think most people could do.

I mean, it kind of doesn't make sense unless I'm misunderstanding you. If you are able to do that, did you pass out? Obviously you are still here, which would indicate you passed out and resumed respiration. All of that oxygenated blood is then going to convert to oxygen and carbon, or, co2, filling the bag with such.

We'll have to agree to disagree about swb. I was not saying that it relies solely on the depressurization of the lungs. It's a combination of factors and the initial pressure the lungs undergo at depth is one of several physiological components that enables the diver to even hold their breath long enough to cause hypoxia.
There have been many discussions here by people who have entertained using hyperventilation as a way to ctb - mostly in conjunction with drowning. To my knowledge, nobody has been successful with this.

I was simply offering my opinion based on what I've read here, which, as stated, been discussed from time to time. You certainly have the right to do what you feel is best.

I do hope you find the peace you are after, whatever that may be.

When I claim that you can "hold your breath for 4 minutes" after deep and rapid hyperventilation, I mean that CO2 levels will NOT rise high enough to warn you before hypoxic blackout (if you hyperventilate for long enough beforehand). So, I'm not denying the possibility that you pass out at minute 3 or 4 (which TECHNICALLY means you aren't holding your breath for the full 4 minutes), but this is actually just what you want. Again, you do rapid and deep hyperventilation for maybe 3 minutes, then you exhale as much air as you possibly can, and then (while still holding your breath) securing the bag over your head and tightening it so that there's almost no air in the bag (and no airflow). However, your criticism isn't valid for what I'm describing, because the reason people sometimes wake up from unconsciousness (after doing hyperventilation + breath hold) is BECAUSE there is a source of air to breathe (which contains oxygen). I'm saying that if you drastically limit the amount of air in the bag, you limit the amount of oxygen as a consequence. Now, how do you know if it is too much air? That is a more complex question that is quite reasonable, but again I'm just explaining the science as it is. Now, if you can find me an example of someone doing something actually similar to what I'm suggesting, I'd love to look at it.




Edit: just to be extra extra clear about what I'm suggesting, here it is:

1. Hyperventilate (rapid and deep inhale and exhale) for maybe 3 minutes or once you start to feel intense tingling (your hand might even want to close into the shape of a lobster claw, caused by extremely low CO2 which is what you want)

2. As soon as you're done with the hyperventilation, IMMEDIATELY exhale as much air as possible (not to the degree that it causes a lot of discomfort, but the more the better)

3. As soon as you have exhaled all the air, DO NOT take another breath in. The next steps require you to hold your breath (with minimal air in your lungs)

4. Secure a small-ish bag over your head and tighten it so that it is as snug as it can be around your head (this is EXTREMELY important), and make sure that it is so tight that air CANNOT get in.

5. Continue to hold your breath, and eventually you should pass out from hypoxia. At some point, your unconscious body will make extreme attempts to take air in (convulsions), but there will be SO LITTLE air (and as a consequence, so little oxygen) that you will continue to be unconscious until you die.

 

[Jello Biafra]

When I claim that you can "hold your breath for 4 minutes" after deep and rapid hyperventilation, I mean that CO2 levels will NOT rise high enough to warn you before hypoxic blackout (if you hyperventilate for long enough beforehand). So, I'm not denying the possibility that you pass out at minute 3 or 4 (which TECHNICALLY means you aren't holding your breath for the full 4 minutes), but this is actually just what you want. Again, you do rapid and deep hyperventilation for maybe 3 minutes, then you exhale as much air as you possibly can, and then (while still holding your breath) securing the bag over your head and tightening it so that there's almost no air in the bag (and no airflow). However, your criticism isn't valid for what I'm describing, because the reason people sometimes wake up from unconsciousness (after doing hyperventilation + breath hold) is BECAUSE there is a source of air to breathe (which contains oxygen). I'm saying that if you drastically limit the amount of air in the bag, you limit the amount of oxygen as a consequence. Now, how do you know if it is too much air? That is a more complex question that is quite reasonable, but again I'm just explaining the science as it is. Now, if you can find me an example of someone doing something actually similar to what I'm suggesting, I'd love to look at it.




Edit: just to be extra extra clear about what I'm suggesting, here it is:

1. Hyperventilate (rapid and deep inhale and exhale) for maybe 3 minutes or once you start to feel intense tingling (your hand might even want to close into the shape of a lobster claw, caused by extremely low CO2 which is what you want)

2. As soon as you're done with the hyperventilation, IMMEDIATELY exhale as much air as possible (not to the degree that it causes a lot of discomfort, but the more the better)

3. As soon as you have exhaled all the air, DO NOT take another breath in. The next steps require you to hold your breath (with minimal air in your lungs)

4. Secure a small-ish bag over your head and tighten it so that it is as snug as it can be around your head (this is EXTREMELY important), and make sure that it is so tight that air CANNOT get in.

5. Continue to hold your breath, and eventually you should pass out from hypoxia. At some point, your unconscious body will make extreme attempts to take air in (convulsions), but there will be SO LITTLE air (and as a consequence, so little oxygen) that you will continue to be unconscious until you die.

Thanks for clarifying.

If you use the search function, perhaps search for "drowning" and "swb" threads. Although I don't recall someone attempting a literal exact replication of what you intend to do, as I mentioned above, there have been many discussions in here of people using the same mechanisms you intend to employ, however mostly in relation to trying to drown unconsciously, instead of your idea of asphyxiating unconsciously.

And I should probably clarify - I have never read anyone on here getting as far as actually attempting - it usually ends up with a multi-page discussion, similar to ours, where the user then changes their mind and ditches the idea.

Hope everything works out for you.