Venting my first risky thread, about assisted suicide / CTB / euthanasia in the Netherlands, Belgium, and my attempt of a commentary.

[VitaminD3]

title:
my first risky thread, about assisted suicide / CTB / euthanasia in the Netherlands, Belgium, and my attempt of a commentary.

# note for the mods, and members:

> if there are spicy comments in this thread, i would advise mods to move comments to the "politics and philosophy" section of the site, which is accesible here,

> https://sanctioned-suicide.net/forums/politics-philosophy.19/

> i wanted to boost my message, to a more popular part of the forum.

> let the dice of fate be cast, i'm awaiting your criticism, and even if i should've used ChatGPT or another LLM for better formatting, i let this post exist as a sort of "mental diarrhea".

> i hope something interesting still remains.

> a similar comment is accessible here, in case some members can't behave, and should rather comment in a more niche section:

> https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/government-assisted-ctb-rising.206762/

#

i'm going to repost a private note i made, from a thread that might be eventually published, about the right to die and more:

#

here's another article about the right to die, in the Netherlands, some glimpses on how it came to be ...

keep in mind, it was like in the 1970s or 1980s, and Netherlands / Belgium are a more liberal group, and who got developed earlier in the timeline of the world until 2025, the present year.

i vaguely remember, it started in the 1970s with a doctor euthanizing his, or her sick mother, and being acquitted, but i forgot where i read that ...

{{cite web
| title = Euthanasia in the Netherlands - Alliance VITA
| url = https://www.alliancevita.org/en/2017/11/euthanasia-in-the-netherlands/
| date = 2024-04-04
| archiveurl = http://archive.today/tjnhm
| archivedate = 2024-04-04 }}

this is by some pro-life group, but even they recognize

> In 2016, there were 16 cases of euthanasia per day in this country, for a population of 16.8 million; thus accounting for 4% of all deaths annually.

> The majority of these euthanasia cases (83%) were performed on patients suffering from incurable diseases, another 10% for multiple pathologies, 4% for disabilities related to old age, 2% for psychiatric disorders and 1% for dementia.

16 * 365 = 5840 / 12 = ~486 people every 30 days, dead because euthanasia, in a country of ~17 million.

17000000 / 6000 = 2833 ~ 1 in 2833 people? keep in mind i used the 2024 population, for a 2016 report ...

1% would be 28.33 people, so less than 0,1% died, or 99,9% lived, or unspecified, i would assume that, most deaths in the Netherlands, since the law passed, didn't die because of the right to die ...

#

> The majority of these euthanasia cases (83%) were performed on patients suffering from incurable diseases, another 10% for multiple pathologies,

> 4% for disabilities related to old age, 2% for psychiatric disorders and 1% for dementia.

so it's a lie that old people or depressive people or people affected by dementia or alzheimers, would rush to be accepted, in large numbers, for the right to die ...

even in the NL, for some, the most liberal country ever?
the most liberal country, has checks and balances, and a rise in conservatism apparently, sadly, such is life ...

look here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assisted_suicide

not many countries have it, and only 4% of deaths, are caused by assisted suicide, in the Netherlands "(...) for a population of 16.8 million; thus accounting for 4% of all deaths annually".

#

later edit 1:

if 4% of deaths meant 5840 deaths, then how much are 100%?

If 4% equals 5,840 deaths, then to find 100%:


100% = (5,840 × 100) ÷ 4
100% = 584,000 ÷ 4
100% = 146,000 deaths

this was ChatGPT assisted, it could be wrong.

it sounds like, roughly 1 in 20, of all the deaths, perhaps in a given year, get assisted suicide, in the Netherlands ...

> it's a lie if someone says, 10%, or 20% or more, of all the yearly deaths in a country, could be just euthanasia or only assisted CTB ...

#

edit 2:

i tried to make a basic infographic, using ChatGPT:

---

In the Netherlands around the year 2016, there were approximately 146,000 total deaths. Of these, about 5,840 deaths (or 4%) were from assisted suicide (euthanasia).

146,000 - 5,840 = 140,160
(This is the number of deaths not caused by assisted suicide.)

ASCII Bar Comparison:
Each # represents 1,460 deaths (100 # = 146,000 deaths)

100% |
#################################################################################################### (100 #)
(all deaths, 140k)

4% |
#### (4 #)
(euthanasia, 5,8k)

Of the 5,840 euthanasia cases, the majority (83%) were performed on patients suffering from incurable diseases. These typically included:

1. Late-stage cancer
2. Progressive neurological disorders (such as ALS or multiple sclerosis)
3. End-stage heart failure
4. Chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD)
5. Advanced stages of Parkinson's disease
6. Severe, treatment-resistant pain or suffering from terminal conditions

These cases followed Dutch legal requirements, including voluntary and well-considered patient requests and the presence of unbearable suffering with no chance of recovery.

#

...
edit 3:

i'm going to post a few sources from Hacker News, i found from browsing https://hn.algolia.com

{{cite web
| title = Scheduled to Die: The Rise of Canada's Assisted Suicide Program Hac…
| url = https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34149793
| date = 2025-05-27
| archiveurl = http://archive.today/wQo3M
| archivedate = 2025-05-27 }}

this is a more fearmongering article, but i thought of posting it anyway

#

{{cite web
| title = How to live on $432 a month in America Hacker News
| url = https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44074340
| date = 2025-05-27
| archiveurl = http://archive.today/rkmVX
| archivedate = 2025-05-27 }}

about money, why not post it here anyway?

#

{{cite web
| title = Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths Hacker News
| url = https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42396733
| date = 2025-05-27
| archiveurl = http://archive.today/CcbUS
| archivedate = 2025-05-27 }}

1 in 20 deaths, just like the Netherlands. I wonder why CA and NL are so similar in this regard?


#
CHATGPT SLOP BELOW because i didn't have anyone to discuss this at the time:
...

You're right—1 in 20 deaths (which is 5%) from assisted dying in both Canada and the Netherlands is a striking similarity. There are several overlapping reasons why these two countries have arrived at comparable rates:

1. Liberal, secular societies
Both Canada and the Netherlands are relatively secular, socially liberal countries. Public opinion in both tends to favor individual autonomy, especially regarding end-of-life decisions. This creates a cultural and legal environment where assisted dying is more likely to be accepted and utilized.

2. Comprehensive legal frameworks

1) The Netherlands legalized euthanasia in 2002 with detailed regulations ensuring voluntary, informed consent and unbearable suffering.
2) Canada legalized MAID (Medical Assistance in Dying) in 2016, with a framework that has since expanded to include non-terminal conditions under certain circumstances.
Both systems are well-regulated, with mechanisms for oversight and transparency, which helps build trust among physicians and the public.

3. Universal healthcare
Both countries have universal healthcare, which helps ensure equitable access to end-of-life options. This means that people aren't opting for assisted dying purely for financial reasons, as can happen in systems without comprehensive coverage.

4. Aging populations
Both countries face aging demographics with increasing rates of chronic and degenerative illnesses, which are often cited reasons for choosing assisted dying. The demand naturally increases as more people confront prolonged suffering in advanced age.

5. Medical and ethical culture
Both Canadian and Dutch medical communities tend to integrate palliative care with discussions about assisted dying. This reflects a shared ethical focus on quality of life, not just prolonging life.

In summary:
The similarities in legal structure, cultural attitudes, and healthcare systems likely explain why both countries have reached similar assisted dying rates. As their frameworks evolve, ongoing discussions will continue about ethical boundaries, access, and protections for vulnerable groups.

END CHATGPT SLOP
#


only 7 comments, in the article below:

{{cite web
| title = Canada's surge in deaths under MAID outpaces other countries Hacker…
| url = https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39156381
| date = 2025-03-23
| archiveurl = http://archive.today/0IurV
| archivedate = 2025-03-23 }}

#

{{cite web
| title = Father tries to block daughter's euthanasia in landmark Spanish case …
| url = https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43255556
| date = 2025-05-27
| archiveurl = http://archive.today/62PnH
| archivedate = 2025-05-27 }}

> This left a young ~22-23 year old Spanish woman, paraplegic.
> Be careful about jumping, and this is why jumping is discouraged on this forum.

{{cite web
| title = Father tries to block daughter's euthanasia in landmark Spanish case
| url = https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/crrdqdky9gxo
| date = 2025-03-04
| archiveurl = http://archive.today/gUPKK
| archivedate = 2025-03-04 }}

archive BBC link, to not give them views.

#

i think in Spain, only for non-psychiatric issues, euthanasia can happen sadly.

#

i believe in Belgium, one can be euthanized just with residency, and Belgian or EU health insurance, but i could be wrong.

#

{{cite web
| title = Has Belgium become a haven for people wanting to end their life? Eu…
| url = https://www.euronews.com/2023/11/02/has-belgium-become-a-haven-for-people-wanting-to-end-their-life
| date = 2024-02-18
| archiveurl = http://archive.today/5SL3p
| archivedate = 2024-02-18 }}

#

Belgium is one of the very few countries where euthanasia for unbearable mental suffering caused by a psychiatric disorder is allowed. According to the 2002 Belgian Euthanasia Law, the eligibility criteria are: a) the euthanasia request is made by a legally competent adult patient; b) the request is voluntary, repeated, well‐considered, and not the result of external pressure; c) the patient is in a medical condition without prospect of improvement; d) the patient experiences constant and unbearable mental suffering that cannot be alleviated; and e) the suffering is the result of a serious and incurable psychiatric disorder. To assess the fulfilment of these criteria, the attending physician must consult two independent physicians, including a psychiatrist. At least one month should pass between the date of the patient's request and the performance of euthanasia. After the euthanasia is performed, the attending physician must report this to the Federal Control and Evaluation Commission for Euthanasia, which is tasked with the a posteriori control 1 , 2 .

#

{{cite web
| title = Euthanasia for unbearable suffering caused by a psychiatric disorder:…
| url = https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10785970/
| date = 2025-05-27
| archiveurl = http://archive.today/1QAHC
| archivedate = 2025-05-27 }}

#

tl;dr:

too tired for a tl;dr,

#

to be investigated:

what are the requirements for assisted suicide in Belgium?

please read here:

https://archive.is/https://old.reddit.com/r/righttodie/*

some archives might have remained (at this link: https://archive.is/https://old.reddit.com/r/righttodie/*
), but i forgot where it was saved, and how much effort someone can do, to obtain Belgian MAID.

#

bye for now

#

 

[Secrets1]

"Too tired for a tl;dr" is the funniest tl;dr ive ever seen lolol

 

[VitaminD3]

"Too tired for a tl;dr" is the funniest tl;dr ive ever seen lolol

here's an extended TL;DR in case someone doesn't want to miss out on any details.:

#

the LLM model i can't afford to run locally, but benefited from a free offering:

https://openrouter.ai/tngtech/deepseek-r1t-chimera:free

the initial prompt:
please write an extended summary or TL;DR, of all the main points discussed in this post, without losing accuracy or details, don't use emojis, don't use bold, and number the points. thank you.

#

Okay, I need to create an extended summary or TL;DR of the user's post about assisted suicide/euthanasia in the Netherlands, Belgium, and related commentary. The user provided a lot of information, including statistics, sources, and personal thoughts. Let me break it down step by step.

First, the main topic is the right to die in the Netherlands and Belgium. The user mentions historical context, starting in the 1970s or 1980s with a doctor euthanizing a sick mother and being acquitted. That's an important point about how the movement began.

Next, there are statistics from 2016 in the Netherlands: 16 euthanasia cases per day, 4% of all deaths annually. The user breaks down the percentages by condition—83% incurable diseases, 10% multiple pathologies, 4% old age disabilities, 2% psychiatric disorders, 1% dementia. They also do some math to show that 4% equals about 5,840 deaths, leading to an estimated 146,000 total deaths that year.

The user then compares this to Canada, noting a similar 1 in 20 deaths (5%) from assisted dying. They speculate that both countries have liberal, secular societies, comprehensive legal frameworks, universal healthcare, aging populations, and medical cultures that integrate palliative care with assisted dying discussions.

There's a mention of a case in Spain where a paraplegic young woman sought euthanasia, but it's noted that Spain may only allow it for non-psychiatric issues. Belgium is highlighted as a place where euthanasia is possible for psychiatric disorders under strict criteria.

The user cites several sources, including a pro-life group's article, Hacker News threads, and a BBC case study. They also mention a subreddit archive for more info on Belgium's requirements.

They express skepticism about claims that large percentages of deaths are from euthanasia, emphasizing that it's 4% in the Netherlands, not higher. There's also a brief mention of financial struggles in America, which might be tangentially related to reasons for seeking euthanasia.

I should organize these points clearly, numbering them for clarity. I'll need to ensure accuracy by referring back to the user's data and avoiding any personal opinions. Also, make sure to exclude emojis and bold text as requested. Let me piece this together cohesively.

#

1. The post discusses the legal and cultural landscape of assisted suicide (CTB) and euthanasia in the Netherlands and Belgium, with comparisons to Canada and Spain. It emphasizes historical context, statistical data, and ethical considerations.

2. In the Netherlands, euthanasia was first legally debated in the 1970s-1980s after a doctor euthanized their terminally ill mother and was acquitted. The practice was formally legalized in 2002 under strict regulations.

3. Netherlands 2016 data: Approximately 5,840 euthanasia cases occurred, representing 4% of all deaths (146,000 total deaths that year). Breakdown by condition:
- 83% for incurable diseases (e.g., late-stage cancer, ALS).
- 10% for multiple pathologies.
- 4% for disabilities linked to old age.
- 2% for psychiatric disorders.
- 1% for dementia.

4. The post challenges claims that euthanasia is widely abused for non-terminal cases (e.g., depression, aging alone), noting that such cases remain a small minority even in liberal jurisdictions.

5. Canada shows a similar rate of assisted deaths (5% of all deaths, or 1 in 20), attributed to comparable factors: secular liberal values, universal healthcare, aging populations, and regulated legal frameworks (e.g., Canada's MAID law).

6. Belgium is highlighted as unique for permitting euthanasia for psychiatric disorders under strict criteria:
- The patient must be a competent adult.
- Request must be voluntary, repeated, and free of external pressure.
- Mental suffering must be unbearable, incurable, and irremediable.
- Requires approval from multiple physicians, including a psychiatrist.

7. Spain's euthanasia laws are noted to exclude psychiatric conditions, illustrated by a case involving a paraplegic 22-year-old woman whose father opposed her euthanasia request.

8. The post cites critiques from pro-life groups (e.g., Alliance VITA) but stresses that data from the Netherlands and Canada refute exaggerated claims about euthanasia misuse.

9. Financial pressures in end-of-life decisions are briefly mentioned, linking to a Hacker News thread about living on $432/month in America, though this is tangential.

10. Sources include archived articles from Hacker News, BBC, and academic journals, as well as Reddit archives (r/righttodie) for further research on Belgium's requirements.

11. The author concludes by inviting discussion and clarification, particularly regarding Belgium's residency and healthcare requirements for euthanasia access.

#


> here's a short and concise TL;DR:

#

Alright, the user wants a shorter TL;DR now. They had a longer summary before but are asking for something more concise. Let me see what the key points are from the original post.

First, the main topic is euthanasia and assisted suicide in the Netherlands and Belgium, with some comparison to Canada and Spain. The Netherlands' history starting from the 70s or 80s is important. The stats from 2016: 4% of deaths in the Netherlands are from euthanasia (it was actually around 5% but LLMs aren't too accurate), mostly for incurable diseases. The breakdown by condition is crucial too—83% incurable diseases, smaller percentages for other issues like psychiatric disorders.

Belgium's unique aspect is allowing euthanasia for psychiatric conditions under strict rules. The comparison to Canada with a similar 5% rate is noteworthy. Spain's limitations—only for non-psychiatric cases—should be included as a contrast.

The user also mentioned skepticism about misuse and cited some sources, but in a concise version, those details might be too much. I need to focus on the core facts without getting into the weeds.

So, the short TL;DR should include the countries involved, the percentages, main conditions allowed, Belgium's psychiatric exception, and the comparison to Canada. Let me try to condense all that into a few clear sentences.

(this was supposed to be hidden, but i posted it anyway)

#

1. The Netherlands and Belgium legally permit euthanasia/assisted suicide, with ~4-5% of annual deaths attributed to it (mostly terminal illnesses).

2. Belgium uniquely allows euthanasia for psychiatric disorders under strict criteria (competent adults, unbearable suffering, multiple approvals).

3. Netherlands' data (2016): 83% of cases involved incurable physical diseases, while psychiatric/dementia cases were rare (<3%).

4. Canada shows similar rates (~5% of deaths), reflecting comparable liberal, secular frameworks.

5. Spain restricts euthanasia to non-psychiatric cases, highlighted by a paraplegic woman's legal fight.

#

 

[Ann M.]

here's an extended TL;DR in case someone doesn't want to miss out on any details.:

#

the LLM model i can't afford to run locally, but benefited from a free offering:

https://openrouter.ai/tngtech/deepseek-r1t-chimera:free

the initial prompt:
please write an extended summary or TL;DR, of all the main points discussed in this post, without losing accuracy or details, don't use emojis, don't use bold, and number the points. thank you.

#

Okay, I need to create an extended summary or TL;DR of the user's post about assisted suicide/euthanasia in the Netherlands, Belgium, and related commentary. The user provided a lot of information, including statistics, sources, and personal thoughts. Let me break it down step by step.

First, the main topic is the right to die in the Netherlands and Belgium. The user mentions historical context, starting in the 1970s or 1980s with a doctor euthanizing a sick mother and being acquitted. That's an important point about how the movement began.

Next, there are statistics from 2016 in the Netherlands: 16 euthanasia cases per day, 4% of all deaths annually. The user breaks down the percentages by condition—83% incurable diseases, 10% multiple pathologies, 4% old age disabilities, 2% psychiatric disorders, 1% dementia. They also do some math to show that 4% equals about 5,840 deaths, leading to an estimated 146,000 total deaths that year.

The user then compares this to Canada, noting a similar 1 in 20 deaths (5%) from assisted dying. They speculate that both countries have liberal, secular societies, comprehensive legal frameworks, universal healthcare, aging populations, and medical cultures that integrate palliative care with assisted dying discussions.

There's a mention of a case in Spain where a paraplegic young woman sought euthanasia, but it's noted that Spain may only allow it for non-psychiatric issues. Belgium is highlighted as a place where euthanasia is possible for psychiatric disorders under strict criteria.

The user cites several sources, including a pro-life group's article, Hacker News threads, and a BBC case study. They also mention a subreddit archive for more info on Belgium's requirements.

They express skepticism about claims that large percentages of deaths are from euthanasia, emphasizing that it's 4% in the Netherlands, not higher. There's also a brief mention of financial struggles in America, which might be tangentially related to reasons for seeking euthanasia.

I should organize these points clearly, numbering them for clarity. I'll need to ensure accuracy by referring back to the user's data and avoiding any personal opinions. Also, make sure to exclude emojis and bold text as requested. Let me piece this together cohesively.

#

1. The post discusses the legal and cultural landscape of assisted suicide (CTB) and euthanasia in the Netherlands and Belgium, with comparisons to Canada and Spain. It emphasizes historical context, statistical data, and ethical considerations.

2. In the Netherlands, euthanasia was first legally debated in the 1970s-1980s after a doctor euthanized their terminally ill mother and was acquitted. The practice was formally legalized in 2002 under strict regulations.

3. Netherlands 2016 data: Approximately 5,840 euthanasia cases occurred, representing 4% of all deaths (146,000 total deaths that year). Breakdown by condition:
- 83% for incurable diseases (e.g., late-stage cancer, ALS).
- 10% for multiple pathologies.
- 4% for disabilities linked to old age.
- 2% for psychiatric disorders.
- 1% for dementia.

4. The post challenges claims that euthanasia is widely abused for non-terminal cases (e.g., depression, aging alone), noting that such cases remain a small minority even in liberal jurisdictions.

5. Canada shows a similar rate of assisted deaths (5% of all deaths, or 1 in 20), attributed to comparable factors: secular liberal values, universal healthcare, aging populations, and regulated legal frameworks (e.g., Canada's MAID law).

6. Belgium is highlighted as unique for permitting euthanasia for psychiatric disorders under strict criteria:
- The patient must be a competent adult.
- Request must be voluntary, repeated, and free of external pressure.
- Mental suffering must be unbearable, incurable, and irremediable.
- Requires approval from multiple physicians, including a psychiatrist.

7. Spain's euthanasia laws are noted to exclude psychiatric conditions, illustrated by a case involving a paraplegic 22-year-old woman whose father opposed her euthanasia request.

8. The post cites critiques from pro-life groups (e.g., Alliance VITA) but stresses that data from the Netherlands and Canada refute exaggerated claims about euthanasia misuse.

9. Financial pressures in end-of-life decisions are briefly mentioned, linking to a Hacker News thread about living on $432/month in America, though this is tangential.

10. Sources include archived articles from Hacker News, BBC, and academic journals, as well as Reddit archives (r/righttodie) for further research on Belgium's requirements.

11. The author concludes by inviting discussion and clarification, particularly regarding Belgium's residency and healthcare requirements for euthanasia access.

#


> here's a short and concise TL;DR:

#

Alright, the user wants a shorter TL;DR now. They had a longer summary before but are asking for something more concise. Let me see what the key points are from the original post.

First, the main topic is euthanasia and assisted suicide in the Netherlands and Belgium, with some comparison to Canada and Spain. The Netherlands' history starting from the 70s or 80s is important. The stats from 2016: 4% of deaths in the Netherlands are from euthanasia (it was actually around 5% but LLMs aren't too accurate), mostly for incurable diseases. The breakdown by condition is crucial too—83% incurable diseases, smaller percentages for other issues like psychiatric disorders.

Belgium's unique aspect is allowing euthanasia for psychiatric conditions under strict rules. The comparison to Canada with a similar 5% rate is noteworthy. Spain's limitations—only for non-psychiatric cases—should be included as a contrast.

The user also mentioned skepticism about misuse and cited some sources, but in a concise version, those details might be too much. I need to focus on the core facts without getting into the weeds.

So, the short TL;DR should include the countries involved, the percentages, main conditions allowed, Belgium's psychiatric exception, and the comparison to Canada. Let me try to condense all that into a few clear sentences.

(this was supposed to be hidden, but i posted it anyway)

#

1. The Netherlands and Belgium legally permit euthanasia/assisted suicide, with ~4-5% of annual deaths attributed to it (mostly terminal illnesses).

2. Belgium uniquely allows euthanasia for psychiatric disorders under strict criteria (competent adults, unbearable suffering, multiple approvals).

3. Netherlands' data (2016): 83% of cases involved incurable physical diseases, while psychiatric/dementia cases were rare (<3%).

4. Canada shows similar rates (~5% of deaths), reflecting comparable liberal, secular frameworks.

5. Spain restricts euthanasia to non-psychiatric cases, highlighted by a paraplegic woman's legal fight.

#

Do you have to be a citizen of Belgium - or of any of these countries - to go there and do it?

 

[VitaminD3]

Do you have to be a citizen of Belgium - or of any of these countries - to go there and do it?

I don't remember about Netherlands - maybe yes, maybe not.

But in the case of Belgium, according to at least 1 anonymous Reddit account from old.reddit.com/r/therighttodie said that in Belgium you can only apply with residency, or around 6 months per year, presence there.

You don't need citizenship in Belgium, only 6 months per year presence, apparently.

You don't have to, pay 10k CHF or 15 thousand Euros like in Switzerland but you have to be approved.

It takes, 5 years if you only have "depression".

You also have to have an ID card, and passport, and be healthy enough to travel to Belgium, and either work in Belgium or have money to legally reside in Belgium for at least 6 months per year, iirc

If you're an EU citizen it's easier, but from outside EU and especially no job, or no source of money, it's harder.

One can also work in the Netherlands and sleep in Belgium for the lower rent prices, and in case the NL version fails because of citizenship requirements (maybe).

What do you think?

 

[Ann M.]

I don't remember about Netherlands - maybe yes, maybe not.

But in the case of Belgium, according to at least 1 anonymous Reddit account from old.reddit.com/r/therighttodie said that in Belgium you can only apply with residency, or around 6 months per year, presence there.

You don't have to, pay 10k CHF or 15 thousand Euros like in Switzerland but you have to be approved.

It takes, 5 years if you only have "depression".

You also have to have an ID card, and passport, and be healthy enough to travel to Belgium, and either work in Belgium or have money to legally reside in Belgium for at least 6 months per year, if I'm wrong.

If you're an EU citizen it's easier, but from outside EU and especially no job, or no source of money, it's harder.

What do you think?

That does sound hard. Why does this have to be so difficult?

So in Switzerland is the only issue money?

 

[VitaminD3]

That does sound hard. Why does this have to be so difficult?

So in Switzerland is the only issue money?

Yes. 10k or 10 thousand Swiss Francs is the standard rate, which includes cremation. There is no option to donate, or sell one's body, to recoup the costs, but I could be wrong.

But, above this 10k rate, you also have to add, accomodation, food, and extra expenses, making your stay around 15k CHF, perhaps, so around 16k euros, or 18k dollars, when all the fees are accounted for. Including possible extra doctor fees. Which is quite a steep sum.

But, assuming one has just depression, or mostly depression, one could apply in Belgium if they have an EU ID card for example, and work in Belgium for 2-3 years to get around 16k Euros, then apply to Switzerland to get fast tracked.

To skip the 5 year waiting time, in Belgium.

Unfortunately it's still quite a steep price anyway.

There are, around 5 VAD associations, and they all have a non-refundable 500 CHF / 0.5k CHF application fee.

So it's money after money.

One might need, at least 2.5k extra CHF to have money to apply for all 5 VAD associations, in case 4 refuse, to have the 5th, but that's laughable.

Even for Belgium either you have to find money, or your relatives or friends, and that's not cheap nor easy at all, to try the Belgian 5 year variant for "depression". Faster if you have chronic illness or are older, I believe.

 

[Ann M.]

Yes. 10k or 10 thousand Swiss Francs is the standard rate, which includes cremation. There is no option to donate, or sell one's body, to recoup the costs, but I could be wrong.

But, above this 10k rate, you also have to add, accomodation, food, and extra expenses, making your stay around 15k CHF, perhaps, so around 16k euros, or 18k dollars, when all the fees are accounted for. Including possible extra doctor fees. Which is quite a steep sum.

But, assuming one has just depression, or mostly depression, one could apply in Belgium if they have an EU ID card for example, and work in Belgium for 2-3 years to get around 16k Euros, then apply to Switzerland to get fast tracked.

To skip the 5 year waiting time, in Belgium.

Unfortunately it's still quite a steep price anyway.

There are, around 5 VAD associations, and they all have a non-refundable 500 CHF / 0.5k CHF application fee.

So it's money after money.

One might need, at least 2.5k extra CHF to have money to apply for all 5 VAD associations, in case 4 refuse, to have the 5th, but that's laughable.

Even for Belgium either you have to find money, or your relatives or friends, and that's not cheap nor easy at all, to try the Belgian 5 year variant for "depression". Faster if you have chronic illness or are older, I believe.

Im in the US so Belgium probably isn't an option. I could in theory cash out the last of my IRA and have enough for Switzerland.

What is VAD?

 

[VitaminD3]

Im in the US so Belgium probably isn't an option. I could in theory cash out the last of my IRA and have enough for Switzerland.

What is VAD?

In Switzerland, VAD stands for voluntary assisted dying, referring to the practice where individuals with severe and incurable illnesses may choose to end their lives with medical assistance. This is distinct from euthanasia, which remains illegal in Switzerland.

The legal basis comes from Article 115 of the Swiss Penal Code, which permits assisted suicide as long as it is not motivated by selfish interests. Organizations such as Dignitas and Exit oversee the process, ensuring strict medical and psychological evaluations are followed.

Key requirements include:
- The individual must have mental capacity and a sustained, voluntary desire to die.
- The condition must be incurable, associated with severe suffering, or deemed unbearable.
- The process involves a lethal dose of medication, self-administered under supervision.

Unlike euthanasia—where a doctor directly administers life-ending drugs—Swiss law only permits assisted suicide, meaning the individual must take the final step themselves. Other end-of-life options, such as palliative sedation, remain legally separate.

If you need specifics on procedures, eligibility, or organizations involved, I can provide further details.

(from Deepseek V3 from chat.deepseek.com with model improvement for everyone turned off)

 

[Ann M.]

In Switzerland, VAD stands for voluntary assisted dying, referring to the practice where individuals with severe and incurable illnesses may choose to end their lives with medical assistance. This is distinct from euthanasia, which remains illegal in Switzerland.

The legal basis comes from Article 115 of the Swiss Penal Code, which permits assisted suicide as long as it is not motivated by selfish interests. Organizations such as Dignitas and Exit oversee the process, ensuring strict medical and psychological evaluations are followed.

Key requirements include:
- The individual must have mental capacity and a sustained, voluntary desire to die.
- The condition must be incurable, associated with severe suffering, or deemed unbearable.
- The process involves a lethal dose of medication, self-administered under supervision.

Unlike euthanasia—where a doctor directly administers life-ending drugs—Swiss law only permits assisted suicide, meaning the individual must take the final step themselves. Other end-of-life options, such as palliative sedation, remain legally separate.

If you need specifics on procedures, eligibility, or organizations involved, I can provide further details.

(from Deepseek V3 from chat.deepseek.com with model improvement for everyone turned off)

Im interested in eligibility. Im over 50 but not currently dying of anything as far as I know.

Do you know if it's worth joining Exit I ?

 

[VitaminD3]

Im interested in eligibility. Im over 50 but not currently dying of anything as far as I know.

Do you know if it's worth joining Exit I ?

First of all, don't waste your 500 CHF application fee.

Exit and Dignitas might not just approve just for being over 50 and just for "depression".

I've heard from some very old posts, that Life Circle abbreviated as LC on this forum, might be more keen to euthanize as long as you have the money of course.

I don't remember them. You have to search or trust this rumor, and my vague memory from years ago, formed between 2020 to 2024.

Maybe over 50, with Exit, you get an automatic approval once the money exists, but I could be wrong. Maybe their forum access fee matters to you? Idk.

> Up next is my own speculation + story, please feel free to ignore:

If I personally just had 18k dollars or whatever is needed for the standard rate + extra fees + transport, i wonder if I wouldn't just leave most of the money to my 62 year old mom to spend instead, and going by SN myself. Or idk what quick method, under 24 hours, I'm not sure.

Or for a long method just choosing to not eat for over 60 days, or 2 months, that would almost guarantee , assuming one isn't too overweight. I will still drink water.

I tired VSED for 14 days no food, 2 days no water, 16 days in total in January 2020. But I quit to voluntarily, go to a closed acute section, of a Romanian insane asylum for the mentally alienated. Never again, haha.

Anyway, scenarios ... Thanks for the messages.

 

[Ann M.]

What is CHF?

I wouldn't say I'm just depressed. I have several things going on that is making my life really difficult to survive through anyway. If things dont change soon I'll be homeless anyway and wouldn't survive long at that point, but wouldn't be a good way to die either.

Both my parents are dead. I dont have any family that cares about me one way or the other. No one would need that last bit of money. Although if I had a cheap way to do it on my own I could donate it someplace.

First of all, don't waste your 500 CHF application fee.

Exit and Dignitas might not just approve just for being over 50 and just for "depression".

I've heard from some very old posts, that Life Circle abbreviated as LC on this forum, might be more keen to euthanize as long as you have the money of course.

I don't remember them. You have to search forLC or trust this rumor, and my vague memory from years ago, formed between 2020 to 2024.

Maybe over 50, with Exit, you get an automatic approval once the money exists, but I could be wrong. Maybe their forum access fee matters to you? Idk.

> Up next is my own speculation + story, please feel free to ignore:

If I personally just had 18k dollars or whatever is needed for the standard rate + extra fees + transport, i wonder if I wouldn't just leave most of the money to my 62 year old mom to spend instead, and going by SN myself. Or idk what quick method, under 24 hours, I'm not sure.

Or for a long method just choosing to not eat for over 60 days, or 2 months, that would almost guarantee death. I will still drink water.

I tired VSED for 14 days no food, 2 days no water, 16 days in total in January 2020. But I quit to voluntarily, go to a closed acute section, of a Romanian insane asylum for the mentally alienated. Never again, haha.

Anyway, scenarios ... Thanks for the messages.

Ive actually also considered going on a hunger strike to bring attention to the issue that is primarily responsible for me being in this situation to begin with. I haven't ruled that out. If I ended up dying, it would be ok.

 

[VitaminD3]

What is CHF?

I wouldn't say I'm just depressed. I have several things going on that is making my life really difficult to survive through anyway. If things dont change soon I'll be homeless anyway and wouldn't survive long at that point, but wouldn't be a good way to die either.

Both my parents are dead. I dont have any family that cares about me one way or the other. No one would need that last bit of money. Although if I had a cheap way to do it on my own I could donate it someplace.

Ive actually also considered going on a hunger strike to bring attention to the issue that is primarily responsible for me being in this situation to begin with. I haven't ruled that out. If I ended up dying, it would be ok.

CHF means Confederation Helvetica Franc, or Swiss Franc.

1 Swiss Franc = 1.22 USD = 1.06 euros.

I understand you're not just depressed but I wonder if these powerful, and richer people care about these reasons enough to make your dossier approvable.

I've also used "depression" in quotes to signify an exit code, or a sort of "get out jail" card, which unlike in Monopoly, it's not a free card, but it exists.

I'm sorry that your parents are dead, it's crazy that all parents, or most parents, left their kids alone.

My father left me since I was an infant, I'm a single male with a single mom, and my maternal grandparents died, grandpa in 2014 at 86, and grandma at 86 in 2023, 9 yeas later.

No you can't dox me easily, because deaths aren't often published online, like in America.

They were too old, they couldn't be saved or rescued from their chronic illness like diabetes and heart failure. Such is life.

Something good to something bad. Different stages, different flowers.

My mom keeps me alive, if she refused to, or became too sick, I would be forced to begin the hunger strike immediately, even in Romania. Just like in January 2020.

I still want to get a job, to get medically insured in Romania, to get up to 8k New Romanian Lions (RON), or around 1.8k USD as financial help in case of death from the Romanian state, funded by taxes.

My mom could also theoretically choose to donate my body, and pocket most of the money, but idk if she will have the strength for that, since she has orthodox chrisitian religious indoctrination.

It's pathetic I haven't died yet, but such is life ... Take care of your health, be careful about what you wish for, and chronic diseases ... Thanks.

 

[Ann M.]

CHF means Confederation Helvetica Francs, or Swiss Francs.

1 Swiss Franc = 1.22 USD = 1.06 euros.

I understand you're not just depressed but I wonder if these powerful, and richer people care about these reasons enough to make your dossier approvable.

I've also used "depression" in quotes to signify an exit code, or a sort of "get out jail" card, which unlike in Monopoly, it's not a free card, but it exists.

I'm sorry that your parents are dead, it's crazy that all parents, or most parents, left their kids alone.

My father left me since I was an infant, I'm a single male with a single mom, and my grandparents died.

They were too old, they couldn't be saved or rescued from their chronic illness like diabetes and heart failure. Such is life.

Something good to something bad. Different stages, different flowers.

My mom keeps me alive, if she refused to, or became too sick, I would be forced to begin the hunger strike immediately, even in Romania. Just like in January 2020.

I still want to get a job, to get medically insured in Romania, to get up to 8k New Romanian lions, or around 1.8k dollars as financial help in case of death from the Romanian state, funded by taxes.

My mom could also theoretically choose to donate my body, and pocket most of the money, but idk if she will have the strength for that, since she has orthodox chrisitian religious indoctrination.

It's pathetic I haven't died yet, but such is life ... Take care of your health, be careful about what you wish for, and chronic diseases ... Thanks.

Thanks!