Has anyone here been able to wean off of strong sleeping meds and get back to sleeping naturally?

[murdoc23]

Long story short,

I used to be a pretty good sleeper up until 8-9 months ago when I started getting sleep anxiety due and a disregulated nervous system to my situation of living with new roommates.

About 5 months ago, I started trying SSRI's, however I had an adverse reaction to them and they made my insomnia even worse.

The lighter sleeping medications, like OTC, Melatonin, Trazedone, Mirtzapine, and Hydroxyzine weren't able to knock me out.

For the past nearly 4 and a half months, the only one that worked for me somewhat consistent was 12.5mg of Ambien CR and even that had issues sometimes so I would have also 50-100mg of Seroquel to take as needed in case I hadn't fallen asleep.

Lately the Seroquel has been giving me a lot of EPS systems like muscle twitches, spasms, involuntary body jerks, which have freaked me out so now I'm avoiding on taking it.

Lately the Ambien CR hasn't been as effective and I've been getting 4 hours of sleep a night and less. I just got prescribed 50mg of Quvivic which is one of the newer DORA sleep medicines that use a different mechanism that Ambien and the other Z-drugs. However this doesn't really knock me out either and I have to still take the 12.5mg of Ambien CR with it and together I might get around 6 to 6 and a half hours of sleep, which still leaves me feeling drowsy and like a zombie when I wake up.

I really would like get off these drugs and be able to sleep naturally again, however it seems like such a tall order because I'm not getting that much sleep even with these drugs and full dose. Trying to taper off of these drugs would probably end up leading to a lot of sleepless nights.

Or is it possible to just stop cold turkey and let your body naturally pass out from lack of sleep? Will something like that even work by forcing yourself into sleep deprivation and force your brain to sleep naturally again?

 

[Kamaainakupua]

They took me off Trazodone after an OD attempt, and I couldn't sleep without aid, so they put me on different meds (suvorexant) but the side effects almost killed me. I've been trying to use this, but it's hard to break old habits, and harder to start new ones.

 

[Pepper]

If I were you, I wouldn't stop cold turkey. I would taper off what you're currently taking and talk to your prescriber about doing so. I know a lot of doctors talk about sleep hygiene: going to bed at the same hour every night and getting up at the same hour every morning, avoiding alcohol, caffeine (after 12 pm), cigarettes and large meals before bedtime, avoiding screen time before going to bed (I'd give it about three hours before bed, but that's my preference), exercise or at least be productive enough during the day to tire yourself out, keep your bedroom dark and cool, and to create a relaxing bedtime routine.
Personally, my sleep has also been shit this past month, but I do deal with a chronic pain disorder that makes me get non-restorative sleep and I deal with insomnia on top of that. What helps me is by not being on my cell phone or watching TV three hours before bed, turning my fan on so that way I'm nice and cool, and then I read with a reading light while I drink chamomile tea (with valerian root). When I'm ready to go to bed, I take my Hydroxyzine, Trazodone (which haven't been working lately lol), and Magnesium, and I wear earbuds and listen to like classical piano music.
Recently I was just prescribed Belsomra (Suvorexant) due to my sleep being so inconsistent, however, I haven't tried it yet. I'll be picking that up tomorrow afternoon, so I'll let you know how it goes. It's used to treat insomnia by blocking orexin, a neurotransmitter that keeps you awake, and is designed to work with your body's natural sleep-wake cycle rather than forcing sedation. It's supposed to help you fall asleep faster and stay asleep longer.
My psychiatric NP already knows that I don't want to be on Belsomra for a long time - and if I'm not mistaken, I don't think Ambien should be either. I look at sleeping medication as an aid (Melotonin does fuck all for me), but it's still up to me to put in the work to get back on schedule in order to come off of it.
By any chance, do you have adhd? I was diagnosed a few years back, and I know that if it's taken later in the day for me, that keeps me up as well. Sometimes I have to completely stop it too and then come back to it at a later time.

 

[murdoc23]

Yea, I've been trying to work on sleep hygiene. The thing is before when I slept well naturally, i basically had no sleep hygiene and was still able to get a full night of sleep. Guess this is just a matter of age and bad habits catching up to me.

Belsomra is another DORA sleep aid similar to Quvivic. I've also tried Dayvigo at 10mg, which wasn't strong enough to knock me out. I'm curious to see how Belsomra works for you.

Ambien CR is kind of hard to slowly taper off of since it only comes in 2 amounts, 6.25mg and 12.5mg. I'm not sure if its fine to just cut it up in halves either since its extended release and the delayed release mechanism would just be completely gone if I were to do that.

I've never formally been diagnosed with ADHD but I know I had similar symptoms when I was younger. I've had psych doctors also tell me I have characteristics similar to OCPD and even some on Autism.

My main issue is the amount of sleep I'm getting just isn't enough and restorative as when I was sleeping naturally. I'm 39 so I can't be pulling off 4 hours of sleep a day like I did in my 20s.

All of this lack of good sleep is spiking my suicidal ideation off the charts as well. I've recently talked to a sleep doctor who said I need to get my anxiety and depression under control first (which I'm doing TMS at the moment). I really hope it works out for me otherwise I don't see how I can continue living like this and CTB would be my only option out.

 

[Pepper]

When you slept well naturally, that was before the sleep anxiety, right? How is your anxiety and nervous system now that you've had some time with your new roommates? The same? Worse? Besides age and bad habits, have you ever had a sleep study done?
Is 10mg for Dayvigo the max dosage? And you aren't taking any CYP3A* inhibitors or inducers, or any other medication that could interact with Dayvigo? I know Belsomra comes in 5, 10, 15 and 20mg. I believe I'm prescribed 10mg.
For the Ambien CR, I would go from the 12.5mg you're at now and then go to the 6.25mg to then nothing at all. Or ask your prescriber what they think of just stopping the 12.5mg completely. Every doctor is different, but all I've known is to taper off everything.
I'm not informed much on OCPD or autism, but I'm sure it wouldn't hurt to be assessed and diagnosed.
I understand. I'm 30, and lately I've only managed between two to maybe six hours a night, non-restorative. Research also shows that for every one hour of sleep lost, it can take up to four days to fully recover which of course is absolute ass.
Besides the sleep doctor recommending managing anxiety and depression, they should also look into a sleep study. Could be beneficial to rule anything other than your anxiety and depression out. Oh, and Genesight DNA testing for psychiatric and depression medication could help with narrowing down what works best for you. I've heard success with TMS, but it's going to take quite a few sessions. Honestly, I'm hoping I can do TMS soon since my psych NP is now offering it and I've been through way too many antidepressants in the past decade or two.

 

[murdoc23]

I'm having an at-home sleep study mailed to me, however my sleep specialist says he doesn't think sleep apnea is the issue. I'm not taking any CYP3A* inhibitors either.
10mg is the max dosage for Dayvigo. I can try to taper off the Ambien CR but I'm always too concerned about not getting a good night's sleep, so its a bit of a catch 22.

I finally was able to get an apartment of my own, but unfortunately the damage has already been done as I had to go through 3 mental hospitalizations that did nothing but make my situation worse. I eventually got a genesight test done after taking anti-depressants and it turns out that my body doesn't metabolize pretty much all the anti-depressants well, same with anti-psychotics. I was on a Lexapro for 2 and a half weeks and eventually it was giving me suicidal ideation so I went to my first mental hospital. It made it much worse as the doctor said I didn't need to be weaned off of it, but within days I started suffering discontinuation symptoms, like extremely intense anxiety mental pain, hyperacusis along with a feel other things. They then tested a few other sleeping medications like Restoril, Seroquel, and Ambien CR which is what I'm still on. They also tested anti-psychotics such as Abilify and Zyprexa which gave me EPS side effects so I stopped those immediately.

My second hospitalization ended up being a welfare check sent by a new nurse practitioner who wasn't helpful at all. The psych doctor there wasn't helpful either and I pretty much refused any sort of new medication there and wanted to get discharged out of there as soon as possible.

My third hospitalization was at a pretty well regarded mental hospital here in the US so I figured this would be my best chance at seeing if anything can work for me. I tried Mirtazapine, which made my hyperacusis worse. Then I tried Buspar which gave me some EPS symptoms as well. They they put me on Zyprexa for 2 weeks thinking that plus 2mg of Klonopin each day plus Ambien CR would help me get around 8 hours of sleep. Which it did but I quickly was getting EPS symptoms as a side effect, but the doctors brushed it off and just kept giving me Klonopin to mask those symptoms. I was then discharged to a residentual unit for a month where they weaned me off the Zyprexa due to the EPS symptoms but my sleep was getting worse as well since it was only Ambien CR and that was giving me 4 hours of sleep. So I added Quivivic to the Ambien which gives me 6-6.5 hours but it still not great.

At this point, I feel pretty screwed, pysch medications are what got me to this point but psych meds aren't able to get me out of huge hole I'm in. I'm just praying TMS can do some miracle for me. Last night was especially brutal because I still have some remaining side effects from Seroquel which caused my to have random body jerks/jolts which induced even more anxiety to the point where going to sleep is scary to me, especially when I'm now completely reliant on sleep meds.

I've recently reached out to places like Dignitas and Pegasos for VAD, not sure if they will accept me but it would be less scary than trying to CBT myself. I don't wanna have to die like this but I cannot live like this for much longer either.

 

[RadioRamen]

I'm currently taking 300mg of hydroxyzine recently , only thing to knock me down and keep me asleep longer

 

[BillyBob]

I use to be on a large dose of sleeping medications, but stopped cold turkey and my mind was completely fucked for 1 month and sleep was bad. Then it took about 6 months to get better after that 1 month of terror. Benzos are hard to come off and I should have weaned myself off them but didn't.
Now days I get okish sleep. Still not fully settled but better then what it use to be and I use sleep hygiene now to help.

 

[Daphne]

I've been on just about every insomnia prescription out there. Z-drugs worked but as you know they are short acting. Benzos are the best fme but clinicians discourage their use.

Have you tried ashwaganda? I took it the other day, only half a dose and it knocked me out quicker than ambien. Sometimes natural supplements work as good as medicine.

 

[Pepper]

I've never experienced an at home sleep study before, so I don't know what that entails. All I've ever experienced is going into the center where they do the sleep study. It's good that something is being done about having a sleep study, even if it turns out bust. It's just a process of elimination. That's understandable. Would there be any way you can get a new medication while you decrease the Ambien CR or no?
Oh, wow. I am so, so sorry to hear that. I'm glad that you are finally in an apartment by yourself now though, but I understand psych wards can be traumatizing in themselves. See, that's why I'm on adamant on being weaned off medication. Everybody and every body is different. There's some who will have withdrawal symptoms while others are just perfectly fine.
Sadly, throwing klonopin to mask the symptoms doesn't help and should've never been done in the first place. Ambien CR may increase the risk of next-day drowsiness compared to standard Ambien, so it makes sense as to why you feel like a zombie the next day. Although I believe my Belsomra can also cause next-day somnolence (which I picked up today!). Would your doctor prescribe you Ambien instead of Ambien CR? Have you tried Xanax before? Xanax knocks me on my ass. I'm just wondering if it would have the same effect for you. I know 6 - 6½ hours isn't much, however it is something. Have you spoken to a therapist regarding your anxiety and stress since everything began? It may be beneficial, that way you can find coping mechanisms or something to help you feel more in control, less anxious and stressed. Get to the root of your anxiety and stress, and slowly work at it to regulate your system again.
I understand how you feel. Your situation reminds me of what I went through in late 2018, all the way through 2019. I really am hoping the tms will help you, but like I said, it's going to take time. I would stick to your Ambien CR and Quivivic for now, but do ask your doctor about regular Ambien and Xanax. I know I said that psych wards are traumatizing, but sometimes it's needed for changing medications to be monitor. Unfortunately, you have to go in focused on finding what works for you and what doesn't. Another question that has crossed my mind is, have you tried indica marijuana? I know you most likely won't be able to smoke and take those medications, but yet again, I'm curious if it would help you. Hell, even gummies, if you don't like/want to smoke.
Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but Dignitas and Pegasos won't be able to help. If I'm not mistaken, Dignitas only excepts terminally ill. They won't take anyone in good quality health or when it comes to mental health disorders alone. Pegasos I've heard of just taking $1.5k (maybe more?) of your deposit and denying your application if you're in good quality health and when it comes to mental health disorders alone. Good is among the lines of if you don't have a terminal illness or your quality of life from said diagnosis isn't going to get better, it will only keep declining. If anyone reads this, and I'm wrong, please correct me. I do know you can find more information here on the forums, so I'd check them out. Both are also expensive. I know it's the way I want to go, but I also have the exit bag and SN as backup.
Since I now have my Belsomra, I'll take it tonight alongside my 100mg Hydroxyzine, 150mg Lyrica, 200mg Magnesium and 200mg Trazodone and let you know how it goes. I'm already tired as it is because I've been awake 29 hours and I've had a pretty decent busy day.
Please try to hang in there. In the meantime, if you ever need to vent or whatever, just shoot me a dm. You don't have to walk alone in your fucked up sleeping situation because I'm also going through it, too.

 

[murdoc23]

Yea, I actually tried Xanax as my first sleeping medication but it only gave me 4 hours of sleep. My provider didn't want me taking benzos and that's when I switched to Seroquel which would give me about 8 hours but I'd feel extremely drowsy and groggy the next day. Then I went to Ambien CR which at the beginning was giving me a good 6-8 hours of sleep but now that I've used it for nearly 5 months every day, it has lost effectiveness. So for awhile I would do Ambien + Seroquel until started giving me EPS symptoms. I then tried 10mg of Dayvigo plus the Ambien CR but that combination wasn't strong enough, so now giving Quvivic + Ambien CR a shot. Trying to stay away from Seroquel at all costs due to its side effects.

Klonopin is starting to lose its effectiveness also, been taking it for over a couple months every day now, between 1mg to 1.5mg. Unfortunately it looks like im just circling the drain with these medications and getting into a very vicious cycle.

Regular Ambien barely gives me any sleep, I think the last time I took it was a few months ago and it only gave me 2 hours. So I'm not sure how well weaning off it would help if I'm already not getting much sleep on it.

I've talked to therapists and it seems like the root of my anxiety is lack of sleep, therefore turning into more anxiety, like the chicken and the egg.
I haven't tried indica marijuana or gummies but that is something I can look into.

I appreciate your help and hope the Belsomra works well for you.

That's very unfortunate to hear about Dignitas and Pegasos. I will try anyway once I get the latest copy of my medical reports. Again, I wish I didn't have to die but I've been suffering so much over the past 5 months that eventually its going to come to a breaking point. I just need some hope at the moment and haven't been able to find it.

Can you explain more about your situation from 2018-2019? Was it worse then that it is now? And how did you get through it?