Grief after suicide

[SchizoGymnast]

If you're here on SaSu, you signed up knowing that people would die here. You signed up for this forum *because* people *could* die here. The assumption is that, if you are here, you are pro choice. What does it mean to be pro choice? I'm sure everyone has their own answer to this question, but I think most people would agree that it consists, in some form, of the following:

-Competent adults can make their own informed choices.
-Suicide shouldn't be stigmatized.
-It is unethical to employ force to prevent suicide.

Notice what's absent? That you have to like or celebrate or agree with someone's decision to pursue suicide.

There have been a lot of deaths here on SaSu and as always, you have all risen to the occasion to embrace not just the person ending their life, but those in their immediate circle struggling with the aftermath. And I'm here to say that it's okay to struggle with it. It doesn't mean that you don't still respect their autonomy or that you don't still wish them peace. It means that you loved them and that you see how the world failed them.

I like to compare this situation to abortion in the cases of fetal abnormality. Babies born with fetal abnormalities can and do often live fulfilling lives and their families and loved ones enjoy caring for them. It's also true that fetal abnormalities are painful, disfiguring, expensive, and life-limiting in a society that doesn't give two shits about caring for even healthy children. Termination for medical reasons is thus a highly individual, highly complex decision unique to each family and you don't have to agree with it. You can say, "I wouldn't have done that. I would like to have changed this outcome." And still allow other people to make those hard decisions without making their lives harder.

I spent some time working in a hospice setting, and I got to work with people with terminal illnesses who got to live full lives. Their deaths were natural and expected and as comfortable as could be. Yet the grief remained. The shock remained. And when I read ctb threads and I see the comments saying, "I hope you found peace," I struggle with that. Of course, there's absolutely nothing wrong with wishing someone peace. Any humane person would wish for that. My problem is that it echoes what I often heard when working in hospice. The overarching theme is that now that they're dead, they're not suffering anymore. We're not allowed to be sad or angry about this person's passing because to do so would be to oppose that person's peace. It's toxic positivity repackaged. Plus, I feel that overemphasizing peace in death takes us away from pursuing peace in life. People pursue peace in death because they've exhausted their options in life and we shouldn't accept that as normal. It may be current reality, but it shouldn't be, and doesn't have to be, normal. It is my personal mission that when someone dies by suicide, I try to honor their memory by doing one small thing that would restore peace in this life. Did someone die by suicide because of a serious illness? I will work overtime and the money I earn will be donated to treating that illness. And so on.

Maybe what I'm saying is offensive or controversial. Maybe it's coming out sideways. But the takeaway is: if you are feeling fatigued and traumatized by recent deaths here on SaSu, it is totally normal and expected. It doesn't mean you are not pro choice. It doesn't mean you didn't care about them or want them to find peace. It means you're human and deep down, you yearn for a better world. Never forget that.

This is the last thing I promise...my inbox is always open and I'm pretty much always awake. It is my joy to serve people. Please reach out anytime.

 

[avalokitesvara]

I agree with most of what you have written. But for me to ask that people who are themselves at the end of their rope take on the burden of bettering the world through things like charity, is too much. What we can do to make the world more peaceful is to cultivate our own inner peace and acceptance of ourselves and others, and do our best to be benevolent towards the beings we encounter. I don't take it as my task to help end cancer because someone died of cancer or end teen suicide because a teen killed herself. It's too much, the scale is too big. Be kind to yourself and those around you. That is manageable.

 

[SchizoGymnast]

I agree with most of what you have written. But for me to ask that people who are themselves at the end of their rope take on the burden of bettering the world through things like charity, is too much. What we can do to make the world more peaceful is to cultivate our own inner peace and acceptance of ourselves and others, and do our best to be benevolent towards the beings we encounter. I don't take it as my task to help end cancer because someone died of cancer or end teen suicide because a teen killed herself. It's too much, the scale is too big. Be kind to yourself and those around you. That is manageable.

It definitely looks different for everyone. Charity is a love language for me, so I immediately gravitated towards that example

I also think it depends on what stage of healing you are in. Did it just happen, or are you years down the line? Etc

 

[Forveleth]

I have seen people mourn just not on goodbye threads. Goodbye threads are for the person dying so they should be full of well wishes. I have seen people say they are sad and miss the person but never anger, because that space is not the place for that. I have seen more emotions expressed on the person's journal/venting thread or on their profile if it is open. I have seen people here express sadness and even a little anger that one of their friends here has left. So it does happen.

As for the charity in memory of, it is a good thought. I had done the same for people I am close to IRL. I might if I got close to someone here. However, I also agree with what has been said above. Morning looks different for everyone and people in our situation are going through a tough time. It is very difficult for some of us to do even the most basic things, let alone go the extra mile for a charity or cause.

 

[SchizoGymnast]

I have seen people mourn just not on goodbye threads. Goodbye threads are for the person dying so they should be full of well wishes. I have seen people say they are sad and miss the person but never anger, because that space is not the place for that. I have seen more emotions expressed on the person's journal/venting thread or on their profile if it is open. I have seen people here express sadness and even a little anger that one of their friends here has left. So it does happen.

As for the charity in memory of, it is a good thought. I had done the same for people I am close to IRL. I might if I got close to someone here. However, I also agree with what has been said above. Morning looks different for everyone and people in our situation are going through a tough time. It is very difficult for some of us to do even the most basic things, let alone go the extra mile for a charity or cause.

Hey thanks for replying! Those are all valid points. I just noticed that in Life In General, people often don't feel like they can express more unsavory emotions in the aftermath of someone's death. It's not necessarily specific to SaSu. And I have seen people on SaSu straight up make statements along the lines of, "Why is suicide a tragedy?" So I felt the need to remind the world that messy feelings post suicide are okay to have and to express.

And yes, we all grieve differently, in our own time and in our own way. Especially after a loss has just happened. I don't want anyone to take my post too literally.

 

[skeptikus]

Being pro-choice means believing that adults have the right to make informed decisions about their own lives, including ending it, without shame or forced intervention. But it doesn't mean you have to agree with or celebrate suicide. It's okay to feel sad, angry, or tired when people die—those feelings show you care and want a better world. Wishing peace to the dead is kind, but we should also work to bring peace to the living. Grief and hope can exist together. Helping others, even in small ways, can be a way to honor those we've lost. You're not alone in this.

Is this summary of your point by chatgpt accurate?

 

[Forever Sleep]

I do agree with some of your points. However, I would argue that being 'happy' for someone or, hopeful even that they will find peace is largey altruistic. Most people here I imagine have tried (likely multiple) things to turn their lives around. Seeing as the act of suicide is frightening for most, it is it's own barrier in a way. I imagine the reality for some people here is that they are struggling immensely with next to no hope of turning things around. Who are we to question them if they insist they've had enough? It's surely kinder to want them to be free of suffering. If they can't achieve that in life, then death can start to make more sense.

That's not to say we can't be sad if they do go but truly- are we being altruistically sad or, selfishly sad? I'd say, it's mostly through selfishness. We will miss the positive impact they had on our lives- even in a small way. Sure, we can feel sad life got to such a bad point, it pushed them to do it but, could we have 'saved' them? Could anyone? Did we/ they try? Did they want us to 'save' them or, was their mind set? Why was that? Maybe because other people had tried to help but failed.

It's human to need people though. It's human to grieve, feel guilt, even feel anger. Still- I think it's important to try to see it from the other person's point of view. I do believe that: If you truly love someone (care about them even,) you let them go if they are suffering.

Not to knock what you do. Giving to charity is great- of course. If I give all of my (meagre) savings to cancer research, will it take away all the pain that cancer sufferers are in now? No. I think it's important to try to reduce suffering if and when we can. I think it's important to recognise that suicides don't happen in isolation. They do indeed deeply affect other people. Those people deserve sympathy and support.

However, I think it's also important to recogise the plight of those who are suffering. If they can't be helped, it's horribly cruel to trap them here with emotional blackmail. It's a double standard too. We are insisting that they can cope with any amount of pain but, we can't cope with their loss. Wishing them peace I think is a beautiful letting go- even if it hurts us. That's the most beautiful, altruistic form of love there is- to my mind. It's the purest form of love because it expects nothing back. We are wanting the best for them. Even if that means losing them.

Of course, that's not to say we might not feel nervous that it is in fact the best or only decision for them. That's always a tricky issue. But then, I tend to remind myself- Would I want someone questioning my decision? Even with the best of intentions? No. My life is my own. I've had to live the shitty thing! Only I really know what I've gone through and how much more I want/ can take. I don't want someone imposing their beliefs or perspectives on me anymore. If I wanted their advice, help or support, I would be asking for it.

It's fine to say we will miss people. That's a form of appreciation but, it can be used as maipulation- PLEASE don't go- I NEED you! That's not fair to dump on someone who's struggling immensely themselves. It's just a ploy to trap them here. That isn't love. It's selfish need.

 

[SchizoGymnast]

I do agree with some of your points. However, I would argue that being 'happy' for someone or, hopeful even that they will find peace is largey altruistic. Most people here I imagine have tried (likely multiple) things to turn their lives around. Seeing as the act of suicide is frightening for most, it is it's own barrier in a way. I imagine the reality for some people here is that they are struggling immensely with next to no hope of turning things around. Who are we to question them if they insist they've had enough? It's surely kinder to want them to be free of suffering. If they can't achieve that in life, then death can start to make more sense.

That's not to say we can't be sad if they do go but truly- are we being altruistically sad or, selfishly sad? I'd say, it's mostly through selfishness. We will miss the positive impact they had on our lives- even in a small way. Sure, we can feel sad life got to such a bad point, it pushed them to do it but, could we have 'saved' them? Could anyone? Did we/ they try? Did they want us to 'save' them or, was their mind set? Why was that? Maybe because other people had tried to help but failed.

It's human to need people though. It's human to grieve, feel guilt, even feel anger. Still- I think it's important to try to see it from the other person's point of view. I do believe that: If you truly love someone (care about them even,) you let them go if they are suffering.

Not to knock what you do. Giving to charity is great- of course. If I give all of my (meagre) savings to cancer research, will it take away all the pain that cancer sufferers are in now? No. I think it's important to try to reduce suffering if and when we can. I think it's important to recognise that suicides don't happen in isolation. They do indeed deeply affect other people. Those people deserve sympathy and support.

However, I think it's also important to recogise the plight of those who are suffering. If they can't be helped, it's horribly cruel to trap them here with emotional blackmail. It's a double standard too. We are insisting that they can cope with any amount of pain but, we can't cope with their loss. Wishing them peace I think is a beautiful letting go- even if it hurts us. That's the most beautiful, altruistic form of love there is- to my mind. It's the purest form of love because it expects nothing back. We are wanting the best for them. Even if that means losing them.

Of course, that's not to say we might not feel nervous that it is in fact the best or only decision for them. That's always a tricky issue. But then, I tend to remind myself- Would I want someone questioning my decision? Even with the best of intentions? No. My life is my own. I've had to live the shitty thing! Only I really know what I've gone through and how much more I want/ can take. I don't want someone imposing their beliefs or perspectives on me anymore. If I wanted their advice, help or support, I would be asking for it.

It's fine to say we will miss people. That's a form of appreciation but, it can be used as maipulation- PLEASE don't go- I NEED you! That's not fair to dump on someone who's struggling immensely themselves. It's just a ploy to trap them here. That isn't love. It's selfish need.

I'm so grateful you came to visit and I felt your comment was respectful and thoughtful. I want to give it the attention it deserves, but I worked the overnight and I need some sleep first. I just don't want you to think I am ignoring you.