god genuinely doesn’t fucking exist

[overthrone]

i did not expect this to become an intense theological debate

 

[Shadows From Hell]

When I was little, I was told that god answers prayers. If that's true, why the hell haven't I won the lottery yet?

 

[isthisit?]

"haven't done anything to him" - every human has rebelled against god in some form

 

[Unbearable Mr. Bear]

"haven't done anything to him" - every human has rebelled against god in some form

That is, if god even has a meaning. Gods come in such different sizes and packages that range from somewhat superior human to literally everything that exists. The only thing tying them together is that these are all human definitions, and since they can differ a lot between one and other, nothing else can be really derived from the usage of the term.

So, in short, god is meaningless to humans, and if we were created by a god, we were created without the capacity to understand our creator, which is sort of foresighted when you need your creation to believe in you...

 

[socksnsandles]

he prolly doesnt but even if he did, hes a little bitch

 

[isthisit?]

That is, if god even has a meaning. Gods come in such different sizes and packages that range from somewhat superior human to literally everything that exists. The only thing tying them together is that these are all human definitions, and since they can differ a lot between one and other, nothing else can be really derived from the usage of the term.

So, in short, god is meaningless to humans, and if we were created by a god, we were created without the capacity to understand our creator, which is sort of foresighted when you need your creation to believe in you...

The bible is pretty clear on what god wants from us and what god is. Sure, we dont have the capacity to understand god, but why does that matter? We dont have to understand something to believe its real.

 

[Unbearable Mr. Bear]

The bible is pretty clear on what god wants from us and what god is. Sure, we dont have the capacity to understand god, but why does that matter? We dont have to understand something to believe its real.

What I said is just a thought experiment, it's actually called https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theological_noncognitivism, which is related to https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Ignosticism, which in turn is related to agnosticism. the christian bible is clear, antiquated wording notwithstanding, but it is also an ancient text, written by flawed humans, and translated and revised countless times throughout history to conform to politics, among other things, so forgive me if I'm skeptical of it being accurate to a decent degree about anything, including on the conceptualization of its deities.

I think understanding things is something that helps humans become more aware of the whys and hows of reality, and how they can react to them better to avoid frustrations and problems in the future, but if believing in a god makes you feel better and doesn't harm anyone, I don't see any problem on it.

 

[isthisit?]

What I said is just a thought experiment, it's actually called https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theological_noncognitivism, which is related to https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Ignosticism, which in turn is related to agnosticism. the christian bible is clear, antiquated wording notwithstanding, but it is also an ancient text, written by flawed humans, and translated and revised countless times throughout history to conform to politics, among other things, so forgive me if I'm skeptical of it being accurate to a decent degree about anything, including on the conceptualization of its deities.

I think understanding things is something that helps humans become more aware of the whys and hows of reality, and how they can react to them better to avoid frustrations and problems in the future, but if believing in a god makes you feel better and doesn't harm anyone, I don't see any problem on it.

The christian standpoint on the bible being written by flawed humans is that the holy spirit guided the early church members but I know that isnt good enough for atheists. The bible also isnt translated to conform to politics, I agree that some parts of the bible can be interpreted in different ways, but most modern translations are translated from the original greek, which are completely neutral and havent gone through any changes, as is confirmed by multiple ancient sources having the same text.

 

[eggsausagerice]

The next time someone says "gods plan" or whatever. Ask em what the plan was when all those religious leaders raped/abused innocent children.

kind of uncomfortable that you want to use child molestation as a le epic comeback. it's an easy thing to fall back on because of how all religious communities deal with grooming and manipulation, but it's callous towards the victims of sexual assault. it's usually a taboo to talk about rape at all in front of religious people, but they're quick to brush off victims and say they're lying or that the assault was because of the devil. there's always another excuse in religion. no one wins besides the ones at the top.

 

[Hollowman]

kind of uncomfortable that you want to use child molestation as a le epic comeback. it's an easy thing to fall back on because of how all religious communities deal with grooming and manipulation, but it's callous towards the victims of sexual assault. it's usually a taboo to talk about rape at all in front of religious people, but they're quick to brush off victims and say they're lying or that the assault was because of the devil. there's always another excuse in religion. no one wins besides the ones at the top.

Reality is often very uncomfortable.

 

[eggsausagerice]

Reality is often very uncomfortable.

i just don't think that you should use rape as a throwaway comment for an religious debate. it downplays the experiences of victims by turning them into a statistic. it doesn't reach the core of the argument either, it's more of a shock value thing. i'll drop the subject though.

 

[Unbearable Mr. Bear]

The christian standpoint on the bible being written by flawed humans is that the holy spirit guided the early church members but I know that isnt good enough for atheists.

So does that mean all I need to say to be believed by christians is to say I'm being guided by the holy spirit? Honestly, no wonder so many charlatans take advantage of blind faith...

The bible also isnt translated to conform to politics

There is ample evidence that some elisions and additions to some chapters were made for political reasons or to express a religious viewpoint that differed from that held by the original author of the chapter. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Council_of_Nicaea, Theodora and Justinian I's changes to protect their miaphysite faith, and King James Version, where translators were directed to solidify England's king and church's authority in it.

but most modern translations are translated from the original greek, which are completely neutral and havent gone through any changes

Even the ancient greek version already had changes because of the difference between aramaic and ancient greek languages. And besides, even if we could have the original, unadultered texts, there would still be the problem of flawed humans, which goes back at your holy spirit handwave.

Also, what if god is just messing with us and telling us to write a bunch of bull and accept it as the holy truth? What exactly is stopping them from doing that? Power and authority aren't exactly conducive to honesty, honestly.

Look, this looks like it's going in circles already, so unless you really want to keep doing this, let's just agree to disagree, ok? I think I've derailed the thread long enough...

 

[Riu]

I think that it is illogical to completely deny the existence of a God or gods. We know so little that we can't know for sure if there is one or not. I think that if there were some form of God they wouldn't be how we think they are, like a person, or have some kind of shape. I also think that since there are so many different religions, different God/gods, and different interpretations in these religions that it is unlikely for any religion to have the details and specifics completely correct or even close to correct. I also feel like a God wouldn't be all good and incapable of anything remotely bad because wouldn't that mean he doesn't have free will? Or maybe he's just so full of wisdom that he sees no purpose in any bad deeds but I question why he didn't make us wise and caring enough to be better than how we are now? And also a problem I have with the interpretation that life is sort of like a test to see who deserves to go to heaven or hell is that I feel like it would be selfish for God to conduct this test by giving us free will which causes such a great amount of suffering. Since God is such a higher form, like basically the eldest and most wise person in a family you should hold them to a higher standard and expect them not to indirectly create so much suffering by giving people free will just to see who ends up in heaven/hell.

 

[isthisit?]

So does that mean all I need to say to be believed by christians is to say I'm being guided by the holy spirit? Honestly, no wonder so many charlatans take advantage of blind faith...

There is ample evidence that some elisions and additions to some chapters were made for political reasons or to express a religious viewpoint that differed from that held by the original author of the chapter. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Council_of_Nicaea, Theodora and Justinian I's changes to protect their miaphysite faith, and King James Version, where translators were directed to solidify England's king and church's authority in it.

Even the ancient greek version already had changes because of the difference between aramaic and ancient greek languages. And besides, even if we could have the original, unadultered texts, there would still be the problem of flawed humans, which goes back at your holy spirit handwave.

Also, what if god is just messing with us and telling us to write a bunch of bull and accept it as the holy truth? What exactly is stopping them from doing that? Power and authority aren't exactly conducive to honesty, honestly.

Look, this looks like it's going in circles already, so unless you really want to keep doing this, let's just agree to disagree, ok? I think I've derailed the thread long enough...

No, being guided by the holy spirit takes real faith and sacrifice. The also obvious difference between the holy spirit guiding the disciples and us is that the importance of them being right heavily ourweighed us.
Sure, some translations have been altered, but the modern translations, like the NIV and ESV, are taken from the original manuscripts which are unchanged.
Sure, there are differences between aramaic and greek, but greek manuscripts have been copied over the centuries.
lul, Ive heard this argument before from a friend. My answer is why bother? Why would god even make us at that point? and also there is no proof of that so why bother.
I agree. As with every atheist vs chrisitan debate, we arent going to convince one another of anything. It was fun tho.

Seeya around

 

[thevoidpointer]

While I don't believe in a religion, I think some of the concepts from them are interesting like the idea that there are invisible spirits trying to drive you away from good (in Islam) and that man's fate is the choice of god (in Christianity). There are problems with every religion but concepts like that lead to people being friendlier towards others.

 

[LetMeOut67]

I see no evidence for God
Plenty for the devil