Electroshock Treatment

[Ligottian]

Anyone here had it? My grandfather had it. It only messed his memory up. This was in the 60's when I was a kid and only learned about it years later.

 

[Hollowman]

Only his memory? A persons memory is extremely important.

 

[Kurwenal]

I've had it. I believe I've had 5 or 6 courses total, with each course consisting of 8 to 12 instances of the treatment. Where I live, if you are an involuntary patient (i.e. locked up in the psych ward against your will, escorted there by the police, that kind of thing), the psychiatrist you have been assigned to can lobby some kind of government tribunal to administer ECT without your consent. That has been the case for each of those 5 or 6 courses.

My memory is a disaster. I think it wouldn't be fair to blame it all on the ECT: the cocktails of meds I've been on through the years, the nature of being a mental wreck itself, these will have no doubt contributed. But my memory has been a great loss.

Did it help? Nothing helps. Supposedly it has taken me from out of a catatonic state when administered, but I can't say I remember well enough to confirm that. It certainly never gave me anything that I would call quality of life.

If you have specific questions I can do my best to answer them, but, again, my memory in general is quite broken, and my memory regarding admissions is particularly hazy.

 

[Ligottian]

Only his memory? A persons memory is extremely important.

It did nothing to help his clinical depression. I'm only going by his memory from what I was told.

 

[stardewwindceres]

I had it when I was 31-33 and I'll be 40 this month. I started going to a new practice- Now I know how shady they are there. I was in a bad place and told the therapist I was seeing that I had been thinking about suicide a lot and how I would do it and that, if things didn't get better in the long run, I might do it. She threw a fit and threatened to have me committed and between being paranoid about her overreaction and the fact that my mother would have loved nothing more than to find a reason obtain guardianship over me and being involuntarily committed could give her grounds to do that, I decided it was best to just do it voluntarily. So while there, this one doctor suggested that ECT might make me feel better. I spent two weeks in the hospital with treatments Monday, Wednesday, Friday and then continued to go on an outpatient basis for almost 2 years. ECT is usually a shorter term thing, this doctor kept telling me to come back. I knew better, and I have no idea why I went for so long. I was just resigned. And honestly, I loved going under anesthesia, each time pretending I wasn't going to wake up. Towards the end I was only going once a week though. My memory is shot. When people tell me things, like I know they happened, but I don't actually remember them happening. Then there are things that people will say and I just don't even have a clue. It's a mind-fuck sometimes. And another thing that I have trouble with is in conversations, like forgetting words for things. Like I know what I'm trying to say, but it takes a minute to think of the word for something.

I did feel a bit better after I got out of the hospital and based on the people I saw that were having it, it worked well to pull people out of catatonia and psychotic episodes. in shorter treatment courses. There were some people I did see every week who were doing it long term like I was. I don't know if it was because they were just doing what that doctor told them to or if it really was helping them or if there was another reason.

 

[LetMeOut67]

I am in such a bad place that I am thinking of asking for ECT regardless of the side effects
It seems to be done differently from decades ago and is supposedly very effective for the majority who have it especially in the short term

 

[stardewwindceres]

I am in such a bad place that I am thinking of asking for ECT regardless of the side effects
It seems to be done differently from decades ago and is supposedly very effective for the majority who have it especially in the short term

Yeah, I obviously can't speak to how your hospital or clinic would do it, but it's definitely changed. Here is what I remember of the experience I had at my hospital. This is in the southern US. They would have like a "staging area" which was just a bunch of us in hospital beds with curtains all around us, so a little bit of privacy. There were two rooms on the floor that had like an anesthesiologist, a nurse who would attach electrodes to your head and where they do to monitor vitals and probably other areas that are important to monitor too. The machine just looked like a rectangular metal box with dials and a meter on it. Maybe some other things I can't remember. They'd all be talking to each or try to make small talk with you. It was always the same two nurses in either room, the rest were on rotation or whatever, the doctor would come in ask you how you were feeling, if you thought the treatments were making a difference, ask some other questions, then give his recommendation, which you could turn down if you wanted to. It was the same doctor each time. He talked to me about 5-10 minutes. Then I guess they would prepare the anesthesia and put one of those oxygen masks over your nose and mouth and tell you when they were going to start pushing the anesthesia (They used propofol because it's short-acting, but I'm not sure if that's like the "standard" or if different providers do it differently) and after you knew it- you were waking up in the recovery area about 45ish minutes later with a raging headache and a nurse observing you. Then when they took your last vitals and everything was stable, they'd get someone to wheel you out to whoever was taking you home and tell you to take it easy for the rest of the day.

To be honest with you, I am thinking about doing it again too. I am in a worse place than I was when they recommended it then and I don't have anything that I care about not remembering anyway. In fact, I would love to forget even more. And the idea of frying my brain into oblivion sounds really fucking awesome. All of these suicide methods are either too hard to source or will likely fail and cause more brain damage or worse anyway. Plus the fantasy of not waking up from the anesthesia is pretty cathartic to me. My insurance covers it, so really why the fuck not? And my body is likely to start eating my organs soon enough, of course that is just specific to me. I'm just trying to talk myself back into it I guess lol.

This is just me though. You do what is best for you. If you have any more questions, reservations, support (well, as much as a person in this state can give support, I guess more like commiseration), etc. just let me know.

 

[divinemistress36]

Ect was the worst thing I ever did . Yes, it helped temporarily but it gave me a lot of permanent memory loss which I was told was temporary. So many events in life that I cant remember . Its not fun when you cant remember fun trips you had with friends, intimate moments , jobs. Not worth the tenporary relief in my opinion

 

[Ligottian]

They were going to give it to my now deceased elderly mother until they discovered she had an inoperable blocked carotid artery up near her brain. The electric current probably would have burst it, sending it to her brain and killing her. The doctor almost seemed disappointed. I've read "shock" is quite lucrative for MDs.

 

[ipmanwc0]

i've had ect it did 6/10 sessions then stopped didn't do anything positive but probably nothing negative either. it's rlly scary tho

 

[3FailedAttemptss]

I've had nine electroshock therapy treatments in april/may and it did nothing for me. Absolutely nothing. It just fucked with my memory, and my memory is still fucked. That's my experience— I've heard from others that it's done tremendous work for them and really pulled them in a positive direction.

 

[Cosmophobic]

My father had it in the 80's and he claims it worked wonders for him. I've always been skeptical. My memory is already very poor so seeing all of you say it messed with your memory...I'm thinking no thanks.

 

[dust-in-the-wind]

I had 17 treatments last year. It didn't help and have memory issues around the time of the treatments.

 

[copioushopelessness]

I've had it. I believe I've had 5 or 6 courses total, with each course consisting of 8 to 12 instances of the treatment. Where I live, if you are an involuntary patient (i.e. locked up in the psych ward against your will, escorted there by the police, that kind of thing), the psychiatrist you have been assigned to can lobby some kind of government tribunal to administer ECT without your consent. That has been the case for each of those 5 or 6 courses.

My memory is a disaster. I think it wouldn't be fair to blame it all on the ECT: the cocktails of meds I've been on through the years, the nature of being a mental wreck itself, these will have no doubt contributed. But my memory has been a great loss.

Did it help? Nothing helps. Supposedly it has taken me from out of a catatonic state when administered, but I can't say I remember well enough to confirm that. It certainly never gave me anything that I would call quality of life.

If you have specific questions I can do my best to answer them, but, again, my memory in general is quite broken, and my memory regarding admissions is particularly hazy.

I'm sorry they did this to you without your consent.
It seems like the Trump administration wants to make it even easier to 'treat' people against their will, under the civil commitment legal process.
As fas as med cocktails go, have you been put on any antipsychotics? Those are a doozy to the memory.

 

[PI3.14]

My psychiatrist suggested this after all meds have failed. I declined though, meds already affected my memory, I don't need a more damaged brain.

 

[Kurwenal]

I'm sorry they did this to you without your consent.
It seems like the Trump administration wants to make it even easier to 'treat' people against their will, under the civil commitment legal process.
As fas as med cocktails go, have you been put on any antipsychotics? Those are a doozy to the memory.

Thank you for your kind words. I'm not even in the USA; suffice it to say that in many parts of the world, once you have the label of 'mental illness' on you, you have all the rights of a toddler when it comes to how you are treated. I'm in my early-mid thirties, but my government infantilizes me at every twist and turn because I am deemed incapable of deciding what is best for me. Never mind that the trauma of my many involuntary admissions has given rise to new problems. Never mind that the drugs upon drugs forced upon me (both through literal force and through threat of admission if I didn't comply) had so many side effects that my physical health has deteriorated significantly too, with no improvement in my mental state. No. I don't know what's best for me. They do. There's my conspiracy talk for the day, I suppose.

I've been on antipsychotics, yes. The most notable were olanzapine, quetiapine and brexpiprazole. The olanzapine saw me gain 25kg in the space of a year. I used to be of slight build; no longer. That really hurt. The quetiapine was back when I was at university, and it dulled my mind far too much for me to operate at an academic level. The brexpiprazole was the last of all the antipsychotics I was on, and indeed, one of the last meds I have been on, as I weaned myself off everything early this year. The twitching. God, the twitching. Every time I wanted to sleep, I would twitch. Mainly my legs, sometimes my arms. If I was up and doing something, no problems, no twitching. But as soon as I tried to rest and sleep, I was stuck in this cycle of twitching. I sobbed so much in that time. It took months after ceasing it before the twitching diminished at all, and I still get it a few times a week now. I recall being on aripiprazole for quite some time, and a short period of risperidone. I don't have specific side effects associated with them that I can recall. I can't say for certain, but I believe the ECT I underwent was during the times of aripiprazole and/or olanzapine.

The best part was always going back to the psychiatrist, explaining the side effects I was experiencing, and being told that the medication doesn't do that and to stop worrying about it. "It's all in your head," basically.

 

[copioushopelessness]

Thank you for your kind words. I'm not even in the USA; suffice it to say that in many parts of the world, once you have the label of 'mental illness' on you, you have all the rights of a toddler when it comes to how you are treated. I'm in my early-mid thirties, but my government infantilizes me at every twist and turn because I am deemed incapable of deciding what is best for me. Never mind that the trauma of my many involuntary admissions has given rise to new problems. Never mind that the drugs upon drugs forced upon me (both through literal force and through threat of admission if I didn't comply) had so many side effects that my physical health has deteriorated significantly too, with no improvement in my mental state. No. I don't know what's best for me. They do. There's my conspiracy talk for the day, I suppose.

I've been on antipsychotics, yes. The most notable were olanzapine, quetiapine and brexpiprazole. The olanzapine saw me gain 25kg in the space of a year. I used to be of slight build; no longer. That really hurt. The quetiapine was back when I was at university, and it dulled my mind far too much for me to operate at an academic level. The brexpiprazole was the last of all the antipsychotics I was on, and indeed, one of the last meds I have been on, as I weaned myself off everything early this year. The twitching. God, the twitching. Every time I wanted to sleep, I would twitch. Mainly my legs, sometimes my arms. If I was up and doing something, no problems, no twitching. But as soon as I tried to rest and sleep, I was stuck in this cycle of twitching. I sobbed so much in that time. It took months after ceasing it before the twitching diminished at all, and I still get it a few times a week now. I recall being on aripiprazole for quite some time, and a short period of risperidone. I don't have specific side effects associated with them that I can recall. I can't say for certain, but I believe the ECT I underwent was during the times of aripiprazole and/or olanzapine.

The best part was always going back to the psychiatrist, explaining the side effects I was experiencing, and being told that the medication doesn't do that and to stop worrying about it. "It's all in your head," basically.

I understand, I got labelled many years ago as a teen, put on so many meds then that I went from an honor student to a drop out.
For years as an adult I declined meds and they called me non-compliant, even refusing to recognize my physical chronic illnesses until I did their mental health surveys. After a few admissions they forced me on medication, which I've been trying to quit. The cognitive decline has been alarming. I've tried to quit with not much success.
Can I ask how you weaned off olanzapine and how that went?
I know exactly what you mean about the twitching, everytime I almost fall asleep I twitch. It's like I'm never fully asleep. Very vivid distrubing dreams. Did you see any improvement when you stopped?

 

[Kurwenal]

I understand, I got labelled many years ago as a teen, put on so many meds then that I went from an honor student to a drop out.
For years as an adult I declined meds and they called me non-compliant, even refusing to recognize my physical chronic illnesses until I did their mental health surveys. After a few admissions they forced me on medication, which I've been trying to quit. The cognitive decline has been alarming. I've tried to quit with not much success.
Can I ask how you weaned off olanzapine and how that went?
I know exactly what you mean about the twitching, everytime I almost fall asleep I twitch. It's like I'm never fully asleep. Very vivid distrubing dreams. Did you see any improvement when you stopped?

I'm sorry for your experience. It's a disgusting reality that we can be forced into these treatments without consent, and certainly without informed consent. The number of times I would ask about the potential side effects of a new medication, only to be told there would be nothing to worry about …

Please take anything I say with a very healthy dose of salt. My experience is my own and I would hate for my words to influence your decisions in any way that could be detrimental. I aim only to share what has happened to me, not to tell you what you should or should not do.

My memory isn't perfect, but I do know the olanzapine was ceased under a psychiatrist. I had changed to a different psychiatrist as the previous one gave brick walls a bad name (not that any of those whom I've seen have much by way of listening skills, in my opinion). I expressed my ongoing concerns about the significant weight gain from the olanzapine, which has fallen on dead ears with the previous psychiatrist. This new one agreed to cease it, but with a replacement, of course. This is where memory gets hazy. I believe, but can't be certain, the replacements were lithium and the aforementioned aripiprazole. I was on lithium for several years but am uncertain of when it was started. I also have vague memories of being on both the aripiprazole and the olanzapine at the same time, which could suggest some sort of crossover weaning period. I really can't say for sure.

In terms of withdrawals, I can say with certainty that coming off absolutely everything was insanely rough. Looking back at transitions from any one medication to another, I don't specifically recall withdrawal symptoms, perhaps because I was also dealing with the onset of the new medications at the time. But this year was and is hell. At the beginning of the year, I was on daily brexpiprazole, lithium and duloxetine. I believe there was some kind of contraindication between the brexpiprazole and duloxetine, if memory serves, but they had me on them together all the same. I was also taking codeine p.r.n., as well as diazepam p.r.n. at the start of this year. The codeine in particular was getting out of control.

So, beginning of this year, my physical state, funnily enough, got such that I decided enough was enough, told the psychiatrist where he could stick it, and worked with my general practitioner on a withdrawal schedule. Brexpiprazole was first to go, over maybe 6-8 weeks, I think. It felt like what I have seen of heroin addicts going through withdrawal. I guess it was like the worst flu I've ever had, but multiplied many, many times. It was hell. Next was duloxetine, maybe 2 months of weaning off. I don't think it was as bad, but it still was awful. Lithium was weird, as I was told I could stop it over the course of a week. Strange. Reducing the diazepam was not particularly rough compared to the rest, but the codeine took quite a while. By the second week of June, I think, I wasn't taking any of the above. Happened to have a very stressful and major life event in that same week, and went off the rails. Whether the meds would have prevented this, I doubt, but I can't say with certainty.

Life now is drudgery. There have been some positives: for example, stopping the lithium means that I actually have the rare night that I can sleep through, as on lithium I would get up to go to the toilet 5-6 times a night. Now at least I can stay in bed and ruminate, but not have to go to the toilet! I'm not twitching as often now. The twitching actually got a lot worse in the first month, I think, of the brexpiprazole weaning. They ended up giving me something, I have no idea what, that was meant to help with that. It didn't really do anything, anyway. But the twitching is now more of a major but thankfully infrequent annoyance than it is something that made me cry every day and every night.

I don't know if any of this is helpful to you. Be aware that off the meds, I still want to die. I didn't have some sudden 'eureka' moment where everything became clear, the fog lifted, I was 'myself' again. But at least I'm not getting any fatter and I can sleep, sometimes. I hope this rambling wall of text is somehow not useless to you.

Sorry, addendum I just recalled: I have apparently developed sleep paralysis since all this. I don't know exactly when it started, but I would estimate sometime during the duloxetine weaning. I wake up, and I just can't move anything or do anything. I know I'm awake, but I'm completely trapped. I don't know how long it lasts, because I can't access a clock or phone or anything while I'm like that. It feels like an eternity. It probably isn't, really. The first few times were terrifying beyond belief. Now it's still scary, but it's also, just, kind of, there. It happened last night. Eventually, something changes and I'm able to move an arm. Not really sure what's causing it, not really sure anyone ever will figure it out. But it happens.

Moral of the story: Don't do drugs. Especially the ones they tell you are safe. A bit of jest, sorry. I am well aware that meds help many people. But it often feels like the voices of those whom they don't help, and even hinder, are ignored and brushed aside. End of rant.

 

[claracatchingthebus]

DONT DO IT!!!! IT ALWAYS FUCKS UP YOUR MEMORY PERMANENTLY AND RARELY OFFERS ANY BENEFIT!!!!

DOCTORS SAY IT SOMETIMES CAUSES MEMORY ISSUES AND ARE LYING! THEIR INFO IS BASED ON FLAWED STUDIES THAT MINIMIZE PATIENT SUFFERING

THEY ARE GREEDY AVARICIOUS MONSTERS!!!! AVOID!!!!

 

[copioushopelessness]

I'm sorry for your experience. It's a disgusting reality that we can be forced into these treatments without consent, and certainly without informed consent. The number of times I would ask about the potential side effects of a new medication, only to be told there would be nothing to worry about …

Please take anything I say with a very healthy dose of salt. My experience is my own and I would hate for my words to influence your decisions in any way that could be detrimental. I aim only to share what has happened to me, not to tell you what you should or should not do.

My memory isn't perfect, but I do know the olanzapine was ceased under a psychiatrist. I had changed to a different psychiatrist as the previous one gave brick walls a bad name (not that any of those whom I've seen have much by way of listening skills, in my opinion). I expressed my ongoing concerns about the significant weight gain from the olanzapine, which has fallen on dead ears with the previous psychiatrist. This new one agreed to cease it, but with a replacement, of course. This is where memory gets hazy. I believe, but can't be certain, the replacements were lithium and the aforementioned aripiprazole. I was on lithium for several years but am uncertain of when it was started. I also have vague memories of being on both the aripiprazole and the olanzapine at the same time, which could suggest some sort of crossover weaning period. I really can't say for sure.

In terms of withdrawals, I can say with certainty that coming off absolutely everything was insanely rough. Looking back at transitions from any one medication to another, I don't specifically recall withdrawal symptoms, perhaps because I was also dealing with the onset of the new medications at the time. But this year was and is hell. At the beginning of the year, I was on daily brexpiprazole, lithium and duloxetine. I believe there was some kind of contraindication between the brexpiprazole and duloxetine, if memory serves, but they had me on them together all the same. I was also taking codeine p.r.n., as well as diazepam p.r.n. at the start of this year. The codeine in particular was getting out of control.

So, beginning of this year, my physical state, funnily enough, got such that I decided enough was enough, told the psychiatrist where he could stick it, and worked with my general practitioner on a withdrawal schedule. Brexpiprazole was first to go, over maybe 6-8 weeks, I think. It felt like what I have seen of heroin addicts going through withdrawal. I guess it was like the worst flu I've ever had, but multiplied many, many times. It was hell. Next was duloxetine, maybe 2 months of weaning off. I don't think it was as bad, but it still was awful. Lithium was weird, as I was told I could stop it over the course of a week. Strange. Reducing the diazepam was not particularly rough compared to the rest, but the codeine took quite a while. By the second week of June, I think, I wasn't taking any of the above. Happened to have a very stressful and major life event in that same week, and went off the rails. Whether the meds would have prevented this, I doubt, but I can't say with certainty.

Life now is drudgery. There have been some positives: for example, stopping the lithium means that I actually have the rare night that I can sleep through, as on lithium I would get up to go to the toilet 5-6 times a night. Now at least I can stay in bed and ruminate, but not have to go to the toilet! I'm not twitching as often now. The twitching actually got a lot worse in the first month, I think, of the brexpiprazole weaning. They ended up giving me something, I have no idea what, that was meant to help with that. It didn't really do anything, anyway. But the twitching is now more of a major but thankfully infrequent annoyance than it is something that made me cry every day and every night.

I don't know if any of this is helpful to you. Be aware that off the meds, I still want to die. I didn't have some sudden 'eureka' moment where everything became clear, the fog lifted, I was 'myself' again. But at least I'm not getting any fatter and I can sleep, sometimes. I hope this rambling wall of text is somehow not useless to you.

Sorry, addendum I just recalled: I have apparently developed sleep paralysis since all this. I don't know exactly when it started, but I would estimate sometime during the duloxetine weaning. I wake up, and I just can't move anything or do anything. I know I'm awake, but I'm completely trapped. I don't know how long it lasts, because I can't access a clock or phone or anything while I'm like that. It feels like an eternity. It probably isn't, really. The first few times were terrifying beyond belief. Now it's still scary, but it's also, just, kind of, there. It happened last night. Eventually, something changes and I'm able to move an arm. Not really sure what's causing it, not really sure anyone ever will figure it out. But it happens.

Moral of the story: Don't do drugs. Especially the ones they tell you are safe. A bit of jest, sorry. I am well aware that meds help many people. But it often feels like the voices of those whom they don't help, and even hinder, are ignored and brushed aside. End of rant.

I know what you mean about their listening skills, nil, none, gaslit when you ask a question, it's always 'don't worry about it'

I know what you mean about their listening skills, nil, none, gaslit when you ask a question, it's always 'don't worry about it'

I'm reading the rest of your reply now. I used to be a speed reader but since olanzapine I have to start and stop, reread many times. I just wanted to say I know the frustration of not being heard by any kind of doctor not just psychiatrists.

I'm sorry for your experience. It's a disgusting reality that we can be forced into these treatments without consent, and certainly without informed consent. The number of times I would ask about the potential side effects of a new medication, only to be told there would be nothing to worry about …

Please take anything I say with a very healthy dose of salt. My experience is my own and I would hate for my words to influence your decisions in any way that could be detrimental. I aim only to share what has happened to me, not to tell you what you should or should not do.

My memory isn't perfect, but I do know the olanzapine was ceased under a psychiatrist. I had changed to a different psychiatrist as the previous one gave brick walls a bad name (not that any of those whom I've seen have much by way of listening skills, in my opinion). I expressed my ongoing concerns about the significant weight gain from the olanzapine, which has fallen on dead ears with the previous psychiatrist. This new one agreed to cease it, but with a replacement, of course. This is where memory gets hazy. I believe, but can't be certain, the replacements were lithium and the aforementioned aripiprazole. I was on lithium for several years but am uncertain of when it was started. I also have vague memories of being on both the aripiprazole and the olanzapine at the same time, which could suggest some sort of crossover weaning period. I really can't say for sure.

In terms of withdrawals, I can say with certainty that coming off absolutely everything was insanely rough. Looking back at transitions from any one medication to another, I don't specifically recall withdrawal symptoms, perhaps because I was also dealing with the onset of the new medications at the time. But this year was and is hell. At the beginning of the year, I was on daily brexpiprazole, lithium and duloxetine. I believe there was some kind of contraindication between the brexpiprazole and duloxetine, if memory serves, but they had me on them together all the same. I was also taking codeine p.r.n., as well as diazepam p.r.n. at the start of this year. The codeine in particular was getting out of control.

So, beginning of this year, my physical state, funnily enough, got such that I decided enough was enough, told the psychiatrist where he could stick it, and worked with my general practitioner on a withdrawal schedule. Brexpiprazole was first to go, over maybe 6-8 weeks, I think. It felt like what I have seen of heroin addicts going through withdrawal. I guess it was like the worst flu I've ever had, but multiplied many, many times. It was hell. Next was duloxetine, maybe 2 months of weaning off. I don't think it was as bad, but it still was awful. Lithium was weird, as I was told I could stop it over the course of a week. Strange. Reducing the diazepam was not particularly rough compared to the rest, but the codeine took quite a while. By the second week of June, I think, I wasn't taking any of the above. Happened to have a very stressful and major life event in that same week, and went off the rails. Whether the meds would have prevented this, I doubt, but I can't say with certainty.

Life now is drudgery. There have been some positives: for example, stopping the lithium means that I actually have the rare night that I can sleep through, as on lithium I would get up to go to the toilet 5-6 times a night. Now at least I can stay in bed and ruminate, but not have to go to the toilet! I'm not twitching as often now. The twitching actually got a lot worse in the first month, I think, of the brexpiprazole weaning. They ended up giving me something, I have no idea what, that was meant to help with that. It didn't really do anything, anyway. But the twitching is now more of a major but thankfully infrequent annoyance than it is something that made me cry every day and every night.

I don't know if any of this is helpful to you. Be aware that off the meds, I still want to die. I didn't have some sudden 'eureka' moment where everything became clear, the fog lifted, I was 'myself' again. But at least I'm not getting any fatter and I can sleep, sometimes. I hope this rambling wall of text is somehow not useless to you.

Sorry, addendum I just recalled: I have apparently developed sleep paralysis since all this. I don't know exactly when it started, but I would estimate sometime during the duloxetine weaning. I wake up, and I just can't move anything or do anything. I know I'm awake, but I'm completely trapped. I don't know how long it lasts, because I can't access a clock or phone or anything while I'm like that. It feels like an eternity. It probably isn't, really. The first few times were terrifying beyond belief. Now it's still scary, but it's also, just, kind of, there. It happened last night. Eventually, something changes and I'm able to move an arm. Not really sure what's causing it, not really sure anyone ever will figure it out. But it happens.

Moral of the story: Don't do drugs. Especially the ones they tell you are safe. A bit of jest, sorry. I am well aware that meds help many people. But it often feels like the voices of those whom they don't help, and even hinder, are ignored and brushed aside. End of rant.

Don't worry about the wall of text. I appreciated the response. I hate that I can relate to everything you said. I wish psychiatry didn't destroy so many lives. I was majorly depressed before meds but much more so since these quacks robbed me of any dopamine or serotonin. Every single moment I want to die. I've always had major life events that it wouldn't of made a difference medicated or not, when one's life falls apart the last thing that's going to help is any drug. Their 'safe' drugs are more dangerous than street drugs I swear. Don't bother asking the side effects, they want you to believe the benefits outweigh the risks. They never do. The only benefit was getting some much needed sleep the first week. After that paradoxical effects and I haven't slept right since.

 

[Kurwenal]

Don't worry about the wall of text. I appreciated the response. I hate that I can relate to everything you said. I wish psychiatry didn't destroy so many lives. I was majorly depressed before meds but much more so since these quacks robbed me of any dopamine or serotonin. Every single moment I want to die. I've always had major life events that it wouldn't of made a difference medicated or not, when one's life falls apart the last thing that's going to help is any drug. Their 'safe' drugs are more dangerous than street drugs I swear. Don't bother asking the side effects, they want you to believe the benefits outweigh the risks. They never do. The only benefit was getting some much needed sleep the first week. After that paradoxical effects and I haven't slept right since.

It's a strange feeling: it is a comfort to know that my experience is shared, but it is greater still the sadness to know that it is shared, too. I am sorry you have followed a path similar to mine. I know exactly what you mean about meds not being much use in a crisis of life events. My family likes to point out how miserable I have been this year, in what is seemingly an attempt to shame me into taking meds again. Nevermind that every one of my past suicide attempts took place while on a mind-bending mix of prescription medications that I was told would make me feel better, maybe even make me normal. The fact that I haven't had an attempt this year is kind of surprising to me, actually; I think a latent part of my mind wanted to stop the meds to help push me to try death one last time. I spent a lot of my 20s blaming psychiatry for all my problems. In fairness, they certainly made things worse in many regards. But I now believe that whatever has happened at any point in my life, I was fundamentally broken from.the very beginning, and every branching path ultimately always led to this, and hopefully, to death not too far down the track. I'm sorry you've been one of us unlucky, silent 'few' who weren't helped, who didn't get better. The media loves to glorify those who have obstacles thrown their way, only to overcome them. I don't begrudge those people their successes. I am glad that there are people out there able to recover. But those of us who languish do so with our voices unheard.

On the note of reading and olanzapine: that hit me hard. I don't know if it was specifically the olanzapine, but I actually haven't been able to read a book in about a decade. I used to pore over books, day in, day out. I can still read short articles on my phone, or forum posts, obviously (and I don't seem to have lost the ability to produce word vomit, though I fear it is much less coherent than once it was). I can't pinpoint a single.medication that might have done it, but I really miss reading. I hope you're able to find a way to either cope with the olanzapine, or negotiate an alternative with your doctor. Don't give up on fighting for your right to quality of life. Though any of us may decide to die soon, we should at least be able to have a say in how our final days are spent.

 

[stardewwindceres]

You guys are talking about antipsychotics. I spent years going through them too. The older ones like clozapine and haldol and of course all of the atypical ones that all do the exact same thing but there's like 20 of them that they push on you and tell you they will help and the docs get a kickback from the pharmaceutical companies. For me, Seroquel was the worst. I couldn't think clearly, people would tell me I was talking slow and slurring and I didn't even realize it half the time, I couldn't focus on anything, I couldn't function at all, in a different way than when I am suicidal depressed like I am now. And I gained so much weight, it triggered the worst ED relapse I have ever had. I was eating hardly anything but barely losing weight, I was so malnourished and in the hospital all the time. I got off of them, but I can still tell they changed the way brain processes things to this day even though I have been off of them. It's hard to explain but you guys get it probably. I was lucky, at least, to not be forced voluntarily. I would have been committed by my doctors and/or my mother multiple times, but I didn't want it to be in the legal system. If my mother ever got guardianship over me, she would have complete control and most definitely abuse it. She already tries to manipulate my actual doctors to try to get private information about me from them. She keeps threatening me (she thinks I'm am stupid, I know they are empty threats) because I won't sign release forms to give my doctors permission to discuss my medical and psychiatric information with her. If she got actual control I would give in to my impulses and stop planning out my CTB and probably fail. Anyway, I do the word vomit thing too, sorry.

@Kurnwel, you said something that I have been thinking about and have told people but they dismiss it, but I unfortunately believe it. It's true that medicine and therapy does help a lot of people. I am no professional and would never advise anyone not to try. But maybe some people are just born with something wrong with their brain and they are just going to be mentally ill no matter what. Like you said, fundamentally broken. Meds can maybe mask certain things, but when it comes right down to it, whatever is wrong, it just can't be fixed and no amount of talking is going to fix it either. Of course, no one wants to admit that, especially mental health "professionals"- how are they gonna make all Or speed it along. Of course, that's a personal choice. I live in America and we have a test run going on right now for military patroling the streets and our President/Dictator-Wannabe has his own private law enforcement agency (ICE) running around kidnapping people everywhere based on nothing but skin color. And trampling all over our Constitution. And getting away with rape. It's only a matter of time before one of them shoots someone at a perfectly legal protest and actual violent riots break out. So who knows what's going to happen over here. I'm operating under the assumption that a lot of people are going to die. I wouldn't mind taking out some, for lack of better words, fascist fuckwads on my way out. Sorry, got off topic again. I think it was because I started talking about pharma CEOs.

But this thread is about ECT so I will shut up now. But yeah, as for ECT, if memory is very important to you, I would probably skip it.

 

[claracatchingthebus]

Again, I want to emphasize that doctors say it MAY in some circumstances cause TEMPORARY memory loss.

It's a lie. For almost ALL patients subjected to ECT their memory is never the same again. Don't do it!!!!!

 

[claracatchingthebus]

I've had it. I believe I've had 5 or 6 courses total, with each course consisting of 8 to 12 instances of the treatment. Where I live, if you are an involuntary patient (i.e. locked up in the psych ward against your will, escorted there by the police, that kind of thing), the psychiatrist you have been assigned to can lobby some kind of government tribunal to administer ECT without your consent. That has been the case for each of those 5 or 6 courses.

My memory is a disaster. I think it wouldn't be fair to blame it all on the ECT: the cocktails of meds I've been on through the years, the nature of being a mental wreck itself, these will have no doubt contributed. But my memory has been a great loss.

Did it help? Nothing helps. Supposedly it has taken me from out of a catatonic state when administered, but I can't say I remember well enough to confirm that. It certainly never gave me anything that I would call quality of life.

If you have specific questions I can do my best to answer them, but, again, my memory in general is quite broken, and my memory regarding admissions is particularly hazy.

I am so sorry. You should lobby to change that rule. Psychiatrists are so often evil and avaricious.

 

[divinemistress36]

Again, I want to emphasize that doctors say it MAY in some circumstances cause TEMPORARY memory loss.

It's a lie. For almost ALL patients subjected to ECT their memory is never the same again. Don't do it!!!!!

They told me this bullshit to. Fuck them

 

[Kurwenal]

I am so sorry. You should lobby to change that rule. Psycbiatrists are so often evil and avaricious.

Thank you for your kindness. I spent a great deal of time (which I admittedly have a lot of), effort (which I don't have nearly as much of), heartache and tears in lobbying for a broader scope for medically assisted suicide where I live throughout this past year, as it happens. As it stands, the rules here are so ridiculously rigid and limited, you almost have to be practically dead already to be considered eligible. I argued on a few different fronts. I focused on quality of life, or rather, the lack thereof. I also addressed the fact that the health system at large, but specifically the mental health system, has no options left for me. I have physical concerns too, sadly nothing that will kill me any time soon, but generally am dismissed as having everything being psychosomatic. The specialists just tell me to come back in six months and "we'll see what's changed". And on the mental health front, I've disengaged from all mental health services because they have actively contributed to my deterioration. I don't think I'm paranoid. I instead draw distinct connections from involuntary admissions, forced treatments, horrific side effects, and ultimately, having the agency of a toddler over my own health and my own life. So, I argued, if the health system is basically saying that it can't help me, I should have a right to die peacefully. I also made the (perhaps left-field) argument that my mental condition is itself a terminal illness, because I believe it is almost certain that I will kill myself rather than die of another cause. I wrote and called to local members of parliament, state members of parliament, federal members of parliament, state senators, state ministers, anyone and everyone. I actually put in the effort not to copy-paste my correspondence to each, but targeted it to them and their capacity and portfolio. Most of them met me with silence. Some forwarded my emails to other offices, as it wasn't their problem. One minister's office had an ambulance and police officers turn up at my door. Thankfully, my mother happened to be home when they turned up (she actually answered the door) to and defused the situation, and I somehow escaped being committed. Two weeks ago, I got the most generic email I've ever received from someone with a meaninglessly pretentious title to say that I wasn't eligible, that there were no individual review processes, and that I could simply voice my concerns in an upcoming review of the system that will take place within the next 3 years. And to please stop contacting them. That email broke me. I mean, I was already broken, but it REALLY broke me.

I looked into things like Pegasos. They want an obscene, non-refundable down payment (and I have a negative net worth, with very little in actual cash or assets) before they even consider your application, and from what I've read, if you have a history of someone slapping a label of mental illness on you, your chances of being accepted are exceedingly slim. I can't burn that amount of money, which I don't even have in the first place, on such a tiny sliver of a chance.

Sorry, long rant there. All that was to say, I have tried to lobby for something in the past, and it just made things worse. If you are deemed mentally ill, your opinions don't matter. Your experience doesn't matter. Your voice doesn't matter. Nothing about you matters, because you don't see things the way they "really are", you have a "distorted view of reality", you are barely human in that you seemingly have no ability to reason or think critically or do anything other than cry in a locked room in a psych ward.

Again, I'm sorry for the rant. I know I will kill myself at some point, hopefully sooner rather than later. That's what will have to happen. There are lots of things, inconsequential many of them, that stand in my way. I feel deeply sad that I won't be able to have my loved ones with me when it happens. I can't even tell them when it will happen, and so I can't actually say farewell to them. I'll know it's farewell forever, but they won't. I don't want to hurt my family. But if my continued existence is going to hurt them as well, I have little choice. My death will hurt my family. The fact that they won't be able to bid me farewell will hurt them so much more.

Sorry, rant over. It's been a rough day. Thank you for your kindness.

 

[copioushopelessness]

It's a strange feeling: it is a comfort to know that my experience is shared, but it is greater still the sadness to know that it is shared, too. I am sorry you have followed a path similar to mine. I know exactly what you mean about meds not being much use in a crisis of life events. My family likes to point out how miserable I have been this year, in what is seemingly an attempt to shame me into taking meds again. Nevermind that every one of my past suicide attempts took place while on a mind-bending mix of prescription medications that I was told would make me feel better, maybe even make me normal. The fact that I haven't had an attempt this year is kind of surprising to me, actually; I think a latent part of my mind wanted to stop the meds to help push me to try death one last time. I spent a lot of my 20s blaming psychiatry for all my problems. In fairness, they certainly made things worse in many regards. But I now believe that whatever has happened at any point in my life, I was fundamentally broken from.the very beginning, and every branching path ultimately always led to this, and hopefully, to death not too far down the track. I'm sorry you've been one of us unlucky, silent 'few' who weren't helped, who didn't get better. The media loves to glorify those who have obstacles thrown their way, only to overcome them. I don't begrudge those people their successes. I am glad that there are people out there able to recover. But those of us who languish do so with our voices unheard.

On the note of reading and olanzapine: that hit me hard. I don't know if it was specifically the olanzapine, but I actually haven't been able to read a book in about a decade. I used to pore over books, day in, day out. I can still read short articles on my phone, or forum posts, obviously (and I don't seem to have lost the ability to produce word vomit, though I fear it is much less coherent than once it was). I can't pinpoint a single.medication that might have done it, but I really miss reading. I hope you're able to find a way to either cope with the olanzapine, or negotiate an alternative with your doctor. Don't give up on fighting for your right to quality of life. Though any of us may decide to die soon, we should at least be able to have a say in how our final days are spent.

I miss reading books too. Reading was my way to escape the world and get sleepy.

You guys are talking about antipsychotics. I spent years going through them too. The older ones like clozapine and haldol and of course all of the atypical ones that all do the exact same thing but there's like 20 of them that they push on you and tell you they will help and the docs get a kickback from the pharmaceutical companies. For me, Seroquel was the worst. I couldn't think clearly, people would tell me I was talking slow and slurring and I didn't even realize it half the time, I couldn't focus on anything, I couldn't function at all, in a different way than when I am suicidal depressed like I am now. And I gained so much weight, it triggered the worst ED relapse I have ever had. I was eating hardly anything but barely losing weight, I was so malnourished and in the hospital all the time. I got off of them, but I can still tell they changed the way brain processes things to this day even though I have been off of them. It's hard to explain but you guys get it probably. I was lucky, at least, to not be forced voluntarily. I would have been committed by my doctors and/or my mother multiple times, but I didn't want it to be in the legal system. If my mother ever got guardianship over me, she would have complete control and most definitely abuse it. She already tries to manipulate my actual doctors to try to get private information about me from them. She keeps threatening me (she thinks I'm am stupid, I know they are empty threats) because I won't sign release forms to give my doctors permission to discuss my medical and psychiatric information with her. If she got actual control I would give in to my impulses and stop planning out my CTB and probably fail. Anyway, I do the word vomit thing too, sorry.

@Kurnwel, you said something that I have been thinking about and have told people but they dismiss it, but I unfortunately believe it. It's true that medicine and therapy does help a lot of people. I am no professional and would never advise anyone not to try. But maybe some people are just born with something wrong with their brain and they are just going to be mentally ill no matter what. Like you said, fundamentally broken. Meds can maybe mask certain things, but when it comes right down to it, whatever is wrong, it just can't be fixed and no amount of talking is going to fix it either. Of course, no one wants to admit that, especially mental health "professionals"- how are they gonna make all Or speed it along. Of course, that's a personal choice. I live in America and we have a test run going on right now for military patroling the streets and our President/Dictator-Wannabe has his own private law enforcement agency (ICE) running around kidnapping people everywhere based on nothing but skin color. And trampling all over our Constitution. And getting away with rape. It's only a matter of time before one of them shoots someone at a perfectly legal protest and actual violent riots break out. So who knows what's going to happen over here. I'm operating under the assumption that a lot of people are going to die. I wouldn't mind taking out some, for lack of better words, fascist fuckwads on my way out. Sorry, got off topic again. I think it was because I started talking about pharma CEOs.

But this thread is about ECT so I will shut up now. But yeah, as for ECT, if memory is very important to you, I would probably skip it.

Did you have bad withdrawal coming off?

You guys are talking about antipsychotics. I spent years going through them too. The older ones like clozapine and haldol and of course all of the atypical ones that all do the exact same thing but there's like 20 of them that they push on you and tell you they will help and the docs get a kickback from the pharmaceutical companies. For me, Seroquel was the worst. I couldn't think clearly, people would tell me I was talking slow and slurring and I didn't even realize it half the time, I couldn't focus on anything, I couldn't function at all, in a different way than when I am suicidal depressed like I am now. And I gained so much weight, it triggered the worst ED relapse I have ever had. I was eating hardly anything but barely losing weight, I was so malnourished and in the hospital all the time. I got off of them, but I can still tell they changed the way brain processes things to this day even though I have been off of them. It's hard to explain but you guys get it probably. I was lucky, at least, to not be forced voluntarily. I would have been committed by my doctors and/or my mother multiple times, but I didn't want it to be in the legal system. If my mother ever got guardianship over me, she would have complete control and most definitely abuse it. She already tries to manipulate my actual doctors to try to get private information about me from them. She keeps threatening me (she thinks I'm am stupid, I know they are empty threats) because I won't sign release forms to give my doctors permission to discuss my medical and psychiatric information with her. If she got actual control I would give in to my impulses and stop planning out my CTB and probably fail. Anyway, I do the word vomit thing too, sorry.

@Kurnwel, you said something that I have been thinking about and have told people but they dismiss it, but I unfortunately believe it. It's true that medicine and therapy does help a lot of people. I am no professional and would never advise anyone not to try. But maybe some people are just born with something wrong with their brain and they are just going to be mentally ill no matter what. Like you said, fundamentally broken. Meds can maybe mask certain things, but when it comes right down to it, whatever is wrong, it just can't be fixed and no amount of talking is going to fix it either. Of course, no one wants to admit that, especially mental health "professionals"- how are they gonna make all Or speed it along. Of course, that's a personal choice. I live in America and we have a test run going on right now for military patroling the streets and our President/Dictator-Wannabe has his own private law enforcement agency (ICE) running around kidnapping people everywhere based on nothing but skin color. And trampling all over our Constitution. And getting away with rape. It's only a matter of time before one of them shoots someone at a perfectly legal protest and actual violent riots break out. So who knows what's going to happen over here. I'm operating under the assumption that a lot of people are going to die. I wouldn't mind taking out some, for lack of better words, fascist fuckwads on my way out. Sorry, got off topic again. I think it was because I started talking about pharma CEOs.

But this thread is about ECT so I will shut up now. But yeah, as for ECT, if memory is very important to you, I would probably skip it.

Did you have bad withdrawal coming off?

 

[claracatchingthebus]

Thank you for your kindness. I spent a great deal of time (which I admittedly have a lot of), effort (which I don't have nearly as much of), heartache and tears in lobbying for a broader scope for medically assisted suicide where I live throughout this past year, as it happens. As it stands, the rules here are so ridiculously rigid and limited, you almost have to be practically dead already to be considered eligible. I argued on a few different fronts. I focused on quality of life, or rather, the lack thereof. I also addressed the fact that the health system at large, but specifically the mental health system, has no options left for me. I have physical concerns too, sadly nothing that will kill me any time soon, but generally am dismissed as having everything being psychosomatic. The specialists just tell me to come back in six months and "we'll see what's changed". And on the mental health front, I've disengaged from all mental health services because they have actively contributed to my deterioration. I don't think I'm paranoid. I instead draw distinct connections from involuntary admissions, forced treatments, horrific side effects, and ultimately, having the agency of a toddler over my own health and my own life. So, I argued, if the health system is basically saying that it can't help me, I should have a right to die peacefully. I also made the (perhaps left-field) argument that my mental condition is itself a terminal illness, because I believe it is almost certain that I will kill myself rather than die of another cause. I wrote and called to local members of parliament, state members of parliament, federal members of parliament, state senators, state ministers, anyone and everyone. I actually put in the effort not to copy-paste my correspondence to each, but targeted it to them and their capacity and portfolio. Most of them met me with silence. Some forwarded my emails to other offices, as it wasn't their problem. One minister's office had an ambulance and police officers turn up at my door. Thankfully, my mother happened to be home when they turned up (she actually answered the door) to and defused the situation, and I somehow escaped being committed. Two weeks ago, I got the most generic email I've ever received from someone with a meaninglessly pretentious title to say that I wasn't eligible, that there were no individual review processes, and that I could simply voice my concerns in an upcoming review of the system that will take place within the next 3 years. And to please stop contacting them. That email broke me. I mean, I was already broken, but it REALLY broke me.

I looked into things like Pegasos. They want an obscene, non-refundable down payment (and I have a negative net worth, with very little in actual cash or assets) before they even consider your application, and from what I've read, if you have a history of someone slapping a label of mental illness on you, your chances of being accepted are exceedingly slim. I can't burn that amount of money, which I don't even have in the first place, on such a tiny sliver of a chance.

Sorry, long rant there. All that was to say, I have tried to lobby for something in the past, and it just made things worse. If you are deemed mentally ill, your opinions don't matter. Your experience doesn't matter. Your voice doesn't matter. Nothing about you matters, because you don't see things the way they "really are", you have a "distorted view of reality", you are barely human in that you seemingly have no ability to reason or think critically or do anything other than cry in a locked room in a psych ward.

Again, I'm sorry for the rant. I know I will kill myself at some point, hopefully sooner rather than later. That's what will have to happen. There are lots of things, inconsequential many of them, that stand in my way. I feel deeply sad that I won't be able to have my loved ones with me when it happens. I can't even tell them when it will happen, and so I can't actually say farewell to them. I'll know it's farewell forever, but they won't. I don't want to hurt my family. But if my continued existence is going to hurt them as well, I have little choice. My death will hurt my family. The fact that they won't be able to bid me farewell will hurt them so much more.

Sorry, rant over. It's been a rough day. Thank you for your kindness.

It's not a rant. It's interesting.

It's entirely true that once there is a diagnostic label on you, they absolutely dismiss what you say as not being reality.

I've experienced this with medical records with an involuntary stay in which things were often written down that just weren't true. They would be things like "got expelled from school as student" or sometimes another patient's name would be listed and it was clear they had just copied and pasted notes from another digital chart and modified them, more difficult to dispute were emotional descriptions that were just wrong, such as "patient doing better while on new medication" written while i was secretly self-harming to test if i could end my life by a larger cut but openly saying i felt worse on the new medication (how do I prove that wrong?).

It's part of the reason psychiatry feels like such a money grab to me. And yes, the extreme loss of agency is terrible. It's part of the reason I don't see psychiatrists anymore. I feel like I am free of them. And even though there are nice psychiatrists out there, I want to be free of their system, free of their control. I don't trust that I won't somehow be subject to more emotional abuse and expectations of subservience if I am put into that system. I don't let anyone know where I live, no one can easily do a welfare check on me, which makes me sleep easier, but still not great. I probably have PTSD from my last involuntary stay but it will never be diagnosed.

I think it was noble of you to write those politicians, but also risky. Suicide is a thorny area because of religious views. Unlike advocsting for easier euthenasia, patient protrctions regarding ECT is a more paletable position. There are some jurisdictions in which ECT can't be compelled. Laws like that already exist. It would probably be better to advocate as an oeganization to stop mandatory ECT, actually forming a group of sorts. Outlawing ECT would probably be better for patients because often when doctors push ECT it's when patients are at their lowest, often when they may lack the ability to research other patient experiences. If psychiatry were an ethical profession, and not just about money, ECT would not be allowed. But time and time again, history shows us how that profession is just about financial exploitation and noble motives almost always become subservient to it.

Given that they have already sent an police and an abulance to where you live, I would understand not wanting to advocate. Them sending that was certainly a method of attempted social conrol and coercision, but once someone has a diagnoses such coersion can be effective.

You guys are talking about antipsychotics. I spent years going through them too. The older ones like clozapine and haldol and of course all of the atypical ones that all do the exact same thing but there's like 20 of them that they push on you and tell you they will help and the docs get a kickback from the pharmaceutical companies. For me, Seroquel was the worst. I couldn't think clearly, people would tell me I was talking slow and slurring and I didn't even realize it half the time, I couldn't focus on anything, I couldn't function at all, in a different way than when I am suicidal depressed like I am now. And I gained so much weight, it triggered the worst ED relapse I have ever had. I was eating hardly anything but barely losing weight, I was so malnourished and in the hospital all the time. I got off of them, but I can still tell they changed the way brain processes things to this day even though I have been off of them. It's hard to explain but you guys get it probably. I was lucky, at least, to not be forced voluntarily. I would have been committed by my doctors and/or my mother multiple times, but I didn't want it to be in the legal system. If my mother ever got guardianship over me, she would have complete control and most definitely abuse it. She already tries to manipulate my actual doctors to try to get private information about me from them. She keeps threatening me (she thinks I'm am stupid, I know they are empty threats) because I won't sign release forms to give my doctors permission to discuss my medical and psychiatric information with her. If she got actual control I would give in to my impulses and stop planning out my CTB and probably fail. Anyway, I do the word vomit thing too, sorry.

@Kurnwel, you said something that I have been thinking about and have told people but they dismiss it, but I unfortunately believe it. It's true that medicine and therapy does help a lot of people. I am no professional and would never advise anyone not to try. But maybe some people are just born with something wrong with their brain and they are just going to be mentally ill no matter what. Like you said, fundamentally broken. Meds can maybe mask certain things, but when it comes right down to it, whatever is wrong, it just can't be fixed and no amount of talking is going to fix it either. Of course, no one wants to admit that, especially mental health "professionals"- how are they gonna make all Or speed it along. Of course, that's a personal choice. I live in America and we have a test run going on right now for military patroling the streets and our President/Dictator-Wannabe has his own private law enforcement agency (ICE) running around kidnapping people everywhere based on nothing but skin color. And trampling all over our Constitution. And getting away with rape. It's only a matter of time before one of them shoots someone at a perfectly legal protest and actual violent riots break out. So who knows what's going to happen over here. I'm operating under the assumption that a lot of people are going to die. I wouldn't mind taking out some, for lack of better words, fascist fuckwads on my way out. Sorry, got off topic again. I think it was because I started talking about pharma CEOs.

But this thread is about ECT so I will shut up now. But yeah, as for ECT, if memory is very important to you, I would probably skip it.

I often wonder if psychiatry can actually cause or worsen brain dysfunction in some cases. I have major brain dysfunction, but I started out just beijg depressed. It was only after more and more drugs for depression that I started having more serious issues.

From what I know, there are no studies looking at people with serious depression who never tried psychiatry and people with serious depression who didn't try psychiatry and looking at long-term outcomes. It's challenging because even if such a study showed people who avoided psychiatry were less likely to end up with bipolar disorder or schizophrenia, psychiatrists would say the people who never saw psychiatrists were in less bad condition to begin with. I believe psychiatric medications may cause an increase in the development of worse conditions in the absence of drug addiction. (In other words, to see this possible impact, you would have to remove from the data set people who are addicted to drugs, likely to develop schizophrenia as a result, and then stopped using drugs because they are calmer on psych meds.) I am referring to more average people with horrible depression without drug addiction; I believe among that data set those who get psychiatric help may fare worse in terms of development of long-term more severe mental health condition. I have no evidence to support this theory and it could be completely wrong, it's not evidence based, but rather a hunch based on atypical antipsychotics resulting in greater brain mass decreases over time compared to those who don't take antipsychotics. I suppose my theory is that brains have evolved over millions of years and that any time you try to alter their functioning by adding a chemical that is given 24 hours a day 7 days a week, there's going to be secondary side effects to the brain that are harmful. It would be interesting to hear a response from a psychiatrist on this concern, but that will never happen since I don't interact with those types anymore.

 

[soulie]

Anyone here had it? My grandfather had it. It only messed his memory up. This was in the 60's when I was a kid and only learned about it years later.

There's a Facebook group of many people severely damaged by it. I don't recommend