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NaturalBornNEET

NaturalBornNEET

知らないわ 周りのことなど 私は私 それだけ
Feb 22, 2022
213
Do you believe there are things that exist that are objectively "wrong" and need correcting? Seems most people operate on this assumption that what they interpret as wrong is in fact wrong and not just their own interpretation of it.

Another way to frame the question is do you believe in evil?
 
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U. A.

U. A.

Some day the dream will end
Aug 8, 2022
2,086
Objectivity does not exist.

"Color" is subjective. "Bright", "cold", "fun"; absent belief in some theistic dictum, there is literally nothing absolute.

"Evil" is the same. Subjective, however, does not mean non-existent.
 
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NaturalBornNEET

NaturalBornNEET

知らないわ 周りのことなど 私は私 それだけ
Feb 22, 2022
213
Objectivity does not exist.

"Color" is subjective. "Bright", "cold", "fun"; absent belief in some theistic dictum, there is literally nothing absolute.

"Evil" is the same. Subjective, however, does not mean non-existent.
This is canon. I think it's vain to try fix the "outside" when it's self evident that all "problems" are merely your judgment of them as problems, so if any transformation is to be undertaken it should be of your mind and how it relates to the world.
 
H

Hvergelmir

Wizard
May 5, 2024
651
This is canon. I think it's vain to try fix the "outside" when it's self evident that all "problems" are merely your judgment of them as problems, so if any transformation is to be undertaken it should be of your mind and how it relates to the world.
That also sounds like an extremist take.

Sometimes it's easier to just challenge evil, and put it right. I think the world will be better if everyone stands up for what is right, than if everyone sits in meditation not caring about it.
Even when right and wrong is subjective, there's overwhelming agreement on the fundamentals.
 
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F

Forever Sleep

Earned it we have...
May 4, 2022
13,882
Seeing as humans are beings that can reason and feel deeply- yes- I think there are certain actions that are very wrong. The obvious ones are child molestation, rape and murder. I don't think you can look at any of them and think- maybe they weren't so bad. They didn't really impact that other person.

I suppose it could be argued to say it's pretty insulting for victims of rape or child abuse that it's up to them to reframe their thinking. That what happened to them wasn't actually all that bad or serious- of course it was!

What becomes a little more complicated is whether we can claim a person is outright evil. But sure- I think we are all capable of doing evil actions.

I suppose there are ones that are outright evil and utterly selfish and will likely cause suffering to another being for the rest of its life. Then, there are very probably the day to day choices we all likely make that are convenient but do still cause suffering.

Maybe that is one definition of evil though- knowingly causing suffering to another being- when you have the choice not to. As humans especially- we have that choice. We have the empathy/ knowledge to know how our actions affect others. While it may be difficult, we also have will power to prevent us doing things we know full well are simply considered wrong. But- we surely know they are too. Would a potential rapist or murderer mind some other person doing that to their family?

But yes- I'd say all three of the above are fundamentally wrong actions. They brutally remove the agency of another person. So- of course they need to try to be prevented and then- punished- if they do occurr.

The complicated one is choice. Some people seem to believe in determinism. So- some people will literally have no choice but to end up a rapist or murderer. So- even if we agree the choice to rape a child is bad. If they didn't strictly make that choice, it isn't their fault (seems to go the theory.)

I struggle with that though- if I'm honest. I think there are circumstances where it becomes more likely a person will turn a certain way. If they encountered abuse themselves say. But still, I just think we have millions and millions of thoughts. Likely many thousands of times we can challenge thoughts we know are wrong or, we know are taking us down a path where we may actually act wrongly.

I find it hard to believe some people can't stop themselves. Because presumably they are every day. Those of us tempted to do anything shady likely say no to ourselves more than yes. I imagine- the more evil or illegal the action, the more we would hold ourselves back. I doubt many serial killers murder every day! So- they are very capable of holding themselves back. Obviously- that's in the case of more premiditated acts but then- I imagine, a lot of them are.

How we became 'evil' or, became able to notice it, is an interesting idea I think. It's partly why I hate the concept of God and religion. Because- any evil action taken here- God presumably envisaged first or- let Satan introduce. So- that means we have a God that wanted it this way! Maybe to test us but- I don't see that as a good excuse. I can't help but worry that if there is a God- they themselves are at least, partly evil.

If it's all just simply chance and evolution then- we're simply animals that grew a conscience. So- rape, murder etc. exist in the animal kingdom too. Although- we tend to believe most animals act entirely based on instinct. So, we don't blame them to the same extent.

Why we grew a conscience and debatably, greater empathy is interesting I think. Maybe because we are a social species. So- working together helped us as a species. Having individuals within that species who go around committing extremely unsocial acts likely hurts the whole group so- maybe our senses of right and wrong became heightened to create more harmony. Plus- we perhaps (debatably) feel things more deeply. I imagine a human's experience of being raped is more impactful than a ducks. Although obviously- we can't know for sure. But- seeing as we are a sensitive race- certain things really affect us- a sense of right and wrong is therfore important to protect the more vulnerable.
 
NormallyNeurotic

NormallyNeurotic

Everything is going to be okay ⋅ he/him
Nov 21, 2024
477
I do not believe in evil, but I do believe in harmful. There are objectively harmful or bad actions, but I don't believe entire people are tied down to a "good or bad" label. Their actions make them what they are, and some choose to be disgusting, horrible person.
 

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