Discussion Did you ever feel there was more to life?

[OzymandiAsh]

I'm not just talking about having hope or thinking you would have a bright future and good life, although that is included. I'm more talking about a sense of spirituality I guess. Did you ever think there was some deeper meaning or purpose to your life, or to life itself?

I sure did. Now I am more inclined to feel scammed by life, as if it is one huge dupe. Even as a very rational and logical, cerebral kid, I had a sense of spirituality. I used to be proud of that spirituality, but now I regard it as a kind of punishment, maybe bad karma from past lives... More spiritual = more suffering, pretty much. Ironically, I was an atheist then, now I am pretty sure about there being a God, yet that knowing does little for me.

I used to feel pretty strongly that life was about growth and spiritual evolution, for instance. Now I know that most of that is garbage, for a lot of reasons, not least because it was an ethic sold to me by a capitalist system that promotes infinite and unsustainable growth. I believed in becoming the best person I could be, doing what I could to help others, etc. I had strong feelings and ideas about life and I followed them hard, until I crashed and broke down.

Now I think the nihilists and absurdists have a real point. I took life very seriously but now I know that is one of the worst mistakes you can make, really. Life goes better when you don't take it seriously.

 

[aufrechtm7]

Some of this sounds kind of adjacent to Buddhism which I think is a pretty interesting. I think nobody is inherently special, and nobody is actually superior to anyone else on the planet, life is only as important as we make it out to be.

It sounds like you tied a lot of good deeds to your spirituality, what about aside from that? Like how would you describe your spirituality?

 

[OzymandiAsh]

Some of this sounds kind of adjacent to Buddhism which I think is a pretty interesting. I think nobody is inherently special, and nobody is actually superior to anyone else on the planet, life is only as important as we make it out to be.

It sounds like you tied a lot of good deeds to your spirituality, what about aside from that? Like how would you describe your spirituality?

Buddhism has some of the truth, like any other religion does. That is what I devoted my life to, quite religiously; finding the Truth.

I found more than I ever thought I would, but I never thought it would be so disappointing.

My spirituality nowadays is intensely cynical, dark, and pessimistic, hence my preparing for suicide and hanging out on a suicide forum! :P

 

[aufrechtm7]

Buddhism has some of the truth, like any other religion does. That is what I devoted my life to, quite religiously; finding the Truth.

I found more than I ever thought I would, but I never thought it would be so disappointing.

My spirituality nowadays is intensely cynical, dark, and pessimistic, hence my preparing for suicide and hanging out on a suicide forum! :P

I align with your devotion to truth seeking a lot. I honestly think the only thing that matters is truth, but there's of course multiple layers to what truth actually is.

I guess I should've said what is it you ended up finding that made you think this way, and what religious beliefs do you currently hold? The original post kinda reads if you had some sort of change of heart with your faith.

 

[GodzillasBiggestFan]

i dont know if i ever beleived in a universal purpose to life but i have beleived indvidual lives could have a purpose or even multiple. something that an indvidual is meant to do. i used to not believe that but now i kind of feel like maybe i found one of mine. i go back on forth on whether i think this is just a feeling or whether i do have an actual purpose.

 

[OzymandiAsh]

I align with your devotion to truth seeking a lot. I honestly think the only thing that matters is truth, but there's of course multiple layers to what truth actually is.

I guess I should've said what is it you ended up finding that made you think this way, and what religious beliefs do you currently hold? The original post kinda reads if you had some sort of change of heart with your faith.

I wouldn't say I hold any religious beliefs per se as nothing is particularly religious for me any more, including the Truth, although it very much used to be. Now I have quite an idiosyncratic set of beliefs, mostly drawn from personal experiences. As I said, I think all religions are true in some way, otherwise they simply wouldn't have stuck for thousands of years.

Any change of heart I've had has been negative, mostly. My belief in God for instance is not a change of heart, it is a response to first-hand or first-person evidence and experience (not anything I could show or prove to anyone else, it's a "you have to seek and find for yourself" sort of thing).

i dont know if i ever beleived in a universal purpose to life but i have beleived indvidual lives could have a purpose or even multiple. something that an indvidual is meant to do. i used to not believe that but now i kind of feel like maybe i found one of mine. i go back on forth on whether i think this is just a feeling or whether i do have an actual purpose.

I agree that individual lives can have purpose, if they are fortunate, but that also seems to largely come down to chance and circumstance. I used to have a purpose and a love-of-my-life, which was writing, although now I am blocked from doing that as well as I could have done in an alternate life, and the resulting heartbreak alone is enough to drive me to suicide. I no longer enjoy it and have lost most of the needed faculties, like my imagination.

 

[GodzillasBiggestFan]

I agree that individual lives can have purpose, if they are fortunate, but that also seems to largely come down to chance and circumstance. I used to have a purpose and a love-of-my-life, which was writing, although now I am blocked from doing that as well as I could have done in an alternate life, and the resulting heartbreak alone is enough to drive me to suicide.

yes its definitly much luck to that. that is the downside i have experinced too. when you can't do that thing you love and feel as a purpose, it feels so completely miserable.

 

[takuyangel]

i had a big philosophy phase in senior year and i tried to read and learn a lot about the human condition and existentialism and i eventually stopped because it made me depressed as fuckkk lmfao. was similarly very disappointed, but it ties into the more grandeur disappoint you encroach as you grow older. we were really dissillusioned as fuck as kids about the reality of adulthood lol. i still despise nihilism though, i think it's dangerous to group that alongside absurdism, they're essentially two opposite sides of the same coin. in my own thoughts, the only guarantees in life are suffering and death. when it comes to those, i don't believe there is an objective truth. everyone just makes their own, you know, because no one truly lives in the same world. mine is god. among other things.

 

[aufrechtm7]

I wouldn't say I hold any religious beliefs per se as nothing is particularly religious for me any more, including the Truth, although it very much used to be.

Any change of heart I've had has been negative, mostly. My belief in God for instance is not a change of heart, it is a response to first-hand or first-person evidence and experience (not anything I could show or prove to anyone else, it's a "you have to seek and find for yourself" sort of thing).

Do you feel comfortable explaining what caused this change? I'm admittedly still kinda lost on it, you don't have to prove it to me but could you explain what you learned that created this?

 

[FuneralCry]

No never, existence is just so torturous, cruel and unnecessary and I could never see a point to any of this, I'll always see existence as the most terrible, cruel mistake that just causes all this torture, harm and suffering with no limit as to how much agony one can feel.

All I want is to erase this dreadful existence that just causes all this terrible suffering and cruelty, to suffer in this existence truly is an abomination to me, I just want to be free from the torture of this deeply undesirable, painful existence that just harms existing beings, no matter what this existence of torturous suffering should never be imposed.

 

[OzymandiAsh]

Do you feel comfortable explaining what caused this change? I'm admittedly still kinda lost on it, you don't have to prove it to me but could you explain what you learned that created this?

What change? Not sure if you are asking about my belief in God or my change of heart towards negativity and cynicism, etc.

If I assume you are asking about the latter, the answer is:
* A shitload of trauma
* Absorbing the news and realising the overwhelmingly poopy nature of humanity and human existence
* Medical problems

And so on. From a spiritual point of view I now consider 'optimistic nihilism' the most fitting attitude towards one's human life, although it feels far too late for me to be optimistic about the lack of inherent or universal meaning and purpose to my life, which only strikes me as a tragedy, a biblically fallen state, or even a cosmic scam of sorts. But if I could go back in time, I would probably tell myself something along the lines of this:
"Don't take life too seriously. There are not really any wrong paths, because life is a losing game and we all lose somehow anyway. Most things are utterly forgivable, so you might as well just nihilistically enjoy your time here and doing whatever you really want and love to do. You are basically fucked whatever you do, and since you are bound to make mistakes and every way you could possibly take is bad from some point of view, there are not many truly wrong ways. Just don't go on a killing spree or whatever and you'll probably be fine. Also, don't worry about health or death too much. You will eventually realise that death is good, it is a liberation. Finally, even love is not to be taken too seriously; stay light-hearted, and keep your inner flame warm, bright, and alive. As for your deeper, more painful feelings, get therapy for them ASAP and do the work to resolve them ASAP before they take root."

i had a big philosophy phase in senior year and i tried to read and learn a lot about the human condition and existentialism and i eventually stopped because it made me depressed as fuckkk lmfao. was similarly very disappointed, but it ties into the more grandeur disappoint you encroach as you grow older. we were really dissillusioned as fuck as kids about the reality of adulthood lol. i still despise nihilism though, i think it's dangerous to group that alongside absurdism, they're essentially two opposite sides of the same coin. in my own thoughts, the only guarantees in life are suffering and death. when it comes to those, i don't believe there is an objective truth. everyone just makes their own, you know, because no one truly lives in the same world. mine is god. among other things.

I'm fairly well versed in philosophy and existentialism, don't worry lol. Good point about adulthood, that is my general feeling, I was looking forward to adulthood and now I see that it fucking sucks and even my childhood, tough as it was, was better. It's why I always subtly encourage my little brother to enjoy and appreciate his childhood while he can and not glorify adults and adulthood, because once you get there you will realise that no amount of sweet treats will make you happy when you have to be fully responsible for yourself.

As for nihilism, see my above reply.

 

[meddle]

when i was a child i didnt actually think much about it. now i am an adult and i think, i try to find some meaning in life. but there is no meaning, no sense at all. life just happens. and we are here to experience it, its a blessing and a curse. i think that one can definetely find their own meaning. i came up with a meanings for myself, but thay dont really suit me, idk. like something is still wrong and i cant shake my head off it

so what is the meaning of life for me:
1) to learn new interesting stuff about everything in our university - but knowledge makes me depressed. the more i know, the more i notice the errors of the human ways or inddiference of the universe. or i dont understand anything at all and that also makes me depressed, because when it happens i become disappointed in myself
2) to help others. but the realization, the evidence of how little use my efforts bring, how little they matter, plunges me into despair. like, idk how volunteers even cope with this. like yesterday they saved 10 starving sick cats, took them from the trash heap, and today they see 10 new starving sick cats in the same trash heap... like your help, your efforts dont matter at all. idk

 

[Zaphkiel]

I _do_ think life can be beautiful and wesome for a lot of people (although not the majority).
And i'm not particulary talking about the basic scenario : house wife kids dogs...some people are fulfilled living perfeclty alone etc even if they are outliers they do exists.

For the second part, i think life in itself has no meaning. One should give a meaning to it. I'm unable to di it

 

[purpp37]

I've deluded myself endlessly trying to find purpose despite reaching the logical conclusion since I was in year 1 that life is meaningless. I was just desperate to find anything that could keep me going or give me motivation to push forward but inevitably it always lead to NOTHING

 

[OzymandiAsh]

I think nobody is inherently special, and nobody is actually superior to anyone else on the planet

By the way, I'm not sure why you said this or why you found it relevant to my post. But I find this interesting, and have spent some time thinking about it (the concept of superiority). I might make a separate thread to talk more about it. But... you cannot honestly tell me that you do not find yourself and many others superior to, say, Donald Trump, in some ways. Yes, or no ?

 

[aufrechtm7]

What change? Not sure if you are asking about my belief in God or my change of heart towards negativity and cynicism, etc.

If I assume you are asking about the latter, the answer is:
* A shitload of trauma
* Absorbing the news and realising the overwhelmingly poopy nature of humanity and human existence
* Medical problems

I was wondering your past/present religious beliefs if any, but the second asterisk closer answers what I was trying to get at.

I don't want to make any assumptions because I don't want to say or insinuate anything rude, but there's a lot of disturbing, overwhelming stories and revelations across most religions. And the current state of society is definitely quite grim, I was just wondering what the last straw was specifically.

By the way, I'm not sure why you said this or why you found it relevant to my post. But I find this interesting, and have spent some time thinking about it (the concept of superiority). I might make a separate thread to talk more about it. But... you cannot honestly tell me that you do not find yourself and many others superior to, say, Donald Trump, in some ways. Yes, or no ?

I thought it might've helped to share some of my personal beliefs with you for understanding, I was worried it would come off as being self important but I'm glad you find it interesting.

Not trying to get political but it's kind of required to answer the question. I disagree with a vast majority of not just his policies and decision making as a leader, but his sense of morality and ethics too. It depends what you mean by some ways but I don't consider myself superior in terms of value to anyone, I don't believe value comes from arbitrary things like status or wealth. And arguing that you're superior on the basis of having better morality or ethics also requires a level of pride I don't think is good.

 

[itsgone2]

I didn't feel that I was of any import but yes that there must be something behind all of this. That there must be some higher purpose.
But maybe there isn't. The world seems incredibly pointless to me now. It's just work. The vast majority of it unfulfilling.

 

[meddle]

By the way, I'm not sure why you said this or why you found it relevant to my post. But I find this interesting, and have spent some time thinking about it (the concept of superiority). I might make a separate thread to talk more about it. But... you cannot honestly tell me that you do not find yourself and many others superior to, say, Donald Trump, in some ways. Yes, or no ?

im sorry to interrupt the conversation. but... i dont think that any good person can find himself superior to other person. its about being humble. if you really think about yourself that you are such a great person (i mean the moral aspect, not some achievements that can be measured), then chanses that you actually are so great are slim. like you have to treat yourself with a grain of salt. you can think, for example, something like "im a great specialist in my field", thats totally fine. but if you think that you are more morally right, more kind, more human, superior to someone, then you probably arent

besides all humans(or almost every human) think, that they understand life. that they know, what is good and what is bad, what humanity needs to do in order to reach prosperity. and acts with the best of intentions. there are actually very few people in the world who know that they are doing evil and enjoy doing it. so we all do what we think is best. or we act impulsively. or we dont think about the damage we cause at all. but very few people are irredeemable evil

 

[OzymandiAsh]

im sorry to interrupt the conversation. but... i dont think that any good person can find himself superior to other person. its about being humble. if you really think about yourself that you are such a great person (i mean the moral aspect, not some achievements that can be measured), then chanses that you actually are so great are slim. like you have to treat yourself with a grain of salt. you can think, for example, something like "im a great specialist in my field", thats totally fine. but if you think that you are more morally right, more kind, more human, superior to someone, then you probably arent

besides all humans(or almost every human) think, that they understand life. that they know, what is good and what is bad, what humanity needs to do in order to reach prosperity. and acts with the best of intentions. there are actually very few people in the world who know that they are doing evil and enjoy doing it. so we all do what we think is best. or we act impulsively. or we dont think about the damage we cause at all. but very few people are irredeemable evil

So, you don't consider yourself at all better than child predators, Nazis, Epsteins, and so on? Because if so then I would say you are simply being dishonest and mincing words. Sorry. Subject for another thread anyway.

I was wondering your past/present religious beliefs if any, but the second asterisk closer answers what I was trying to get at.

I don't want to make any assumptions because I don't want to say or insinuate anything rude, but there's a lot of disturbing, overwhelming stories and revelations across most religions. And the current state of society is definitely quite grim, I was just wondering what the last straw was specifically.

I thought it might've helped to share some of my personal beliefs with you for understanding, I was worried it would come off as being self important but I'm glad you find it interesting.

I never really followed or practiced any religion seriously. I became an atheist very early, but as I said, always had a sense of spirituality, which eventually led to my having experiences which confirm (for me) that existence is, essentially, divine, and that there are divine beings and so on. But I also think there is some truth to the whole biblical fall narrative that the Abrahamic religions subscribe to, this world seems very fallen to me. And also as mentioned I believe in karma. Sikhism is actually closer to many of my beliefs than other religions, because it combines the karmic beliefs of dharmic religions with the monotheism of Abrahamic ones, although as I said I consider them all true in some ways (and false in others).

Not trying to get political but it's kind of required to answer the question. I disagree with a vast majority of not just his policies and decision making as a leader, but his sense of morality and ethics too. It depends what you mean by some ways but I don't consider myself superior in terms of value to anyone, I don't believe value comes from arbitrary things like status or wealth. And arguing that you're superior on the basis of having better morality or ethics also requires a level of pride I don't think is good.

Superiority is obviously relative. I have no trouble admitting that some people are my moral superiors, and in some ways intellectual superiors, and so on.

So where does value come from, in your view? In my view value mostly comes from what you can do for others. In that sense - how much you can do for others - many people are vastly superior to me, I'll happily admit that.

 

[aufrechtm7]

So where does value come from, in your view? In my view value mostly comes from what you can do for others. In that sense - how much you can do for others - many people are vastly superior to me, I'll happily admit that.

I follow Kant on a lot of things relating to morality/ethics, I'm actually interested as well in seeing how other users of Sasu would respond to the thread you are interested in making. I don't have a problem continuing this discussion but just let me know if you'd rather save it for that thread or something else.

 

[Forveleth]

Honestly, I never felt this even when I was still Christian. We are merely another living species on this planet. The only difference between us and everything else is that we have developed an awareness of our own existence and the ability to think beyond the basics of survival. Of course, this leads to us contemplating if there is some deeper meaning to life, but I really do not think there is anything more than make babies and eat food just like every other animal

 

[11April]

I understand you completely. For several years, I too believed that despite all the evil in the world, good must still triumph. I sincerely believed this and also worked on my inner world and tried to become the best version of myself. Now, like you, I feel deceived and believe that life is simply a random event, and such concepts as good and evil, justice and deception do not exist. People made everything up themselves simply to give their lives meaning.

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

to me life is the constant worst pain which is so bad the constant worst pain makes everything else meaningless

 

[OzymandiAsh]

I follow Kant on a lot of things relating to morality/ethics, I'm actually interested as well in seeing how other users of Sasu would respond to the thread you are interested in making. I don't have a problem continuing this discussion but just let me know if you'd rather save it for that thread or something else.

Sweet, I'll make another thread on it soon and tag you and anyone else who wants to take part in the conversation. It will be in offtopic rather than here as it's less suicide/depression related. :)

 

[Tautochrome]

I've always felt special in some way (which in itself is sooo special it puts me in one box with 90% of the population). You know that time when you're a kid and hope you have hidden supernatural powers, waiting to be awakened? Well, growing up and facing reality as an adult never eliminated that part of me. I know how that sounds, but I believe I'm a higher being, a daemon of war, inhabiting a human body. Where the "daemon of war" idea came from, I don't know. Plenty of my beliefs have no clear source and have always been there, rather than forming gradually, like, for example, my skewed moral framework or my innate need to oppose all authority. If I try to adopt opinions like a normal person, I often end up accepting multiple contradictory stances, and let me tell you, it doesn't help in day-to-day conversations to be a fucking hypocrite. To make things worse, I seriously consider solipsist theories, the ones claiming only my consciousness exists, so even in the face of suicide, my main character energy only keeps growing. Existence of God? If he does exist in any form, I plan to destroy him. End of the schizo post. v.v