Are some of us "called" to death?

[M_E_S]

We're born, and have no control over that.

From birth, societies and cultures immediately set about conditioning us into ascribing objective meaning to everything, with almost all of it defined for us. And for those who realize this and grow skeptical of, or even outright reject, their conditioning the alternative encourages us to generate our own meaning in an otherwise meaningless world. Though we have more autonomy in this latter view it still insists upon living itself as a prerequisite.

Yet any of us who decide that our meaning is tied to life as ultimately futile and seeking to terminate it as fulfillment of that meaning are typically roundly rejected out of the gate regardless of our arguments. And our perspectives dismissed, chocked up to the ramblings of mentally unwell minds simply because we consider death a viable option for self-actualizing our understanding of existence.

My question is, do those of us who hold suicide as a legitimate and viable means of exercising autonomy and fulfilling their own sense of meaning possess a deeper awareness.

In other words, because we tend to be more self aware, think deeply and consider things critically, could we be examples of humans who have realized their purpose is to die?

When everything in existence points to a sense of failure, inadequacy, unfufillment...are we not just responding to nature in the desire to end? Are some of us simply aware that we're being called back to the dust and simply engage with that realization instead of distracting ourselves, deluding ourselves or waiting for much more painful, avoidable and humiliating ways to go, lauded by the masses but ultimately needlessly cruel and trying?

 

[VitaminD3]

excuse my drive by comment, just a few thoughts i had, while still on the laptop, and before going to bed:

even if on average, it was discovered that most suicidal people had higher awareness, or a sort of depressive realism about life, it's one thing to say something, and a much more difficult thing to implement it.

another thing is, some countries like Canada, Belgium, Netherlands, Switzerland, have assisted suicide, and yet there doesn't seem to be a strong international pressure to shut that down. that's good.

there have been rumors of Canada's MAID of being inhumane, but imho, it's mostly conservative talking points, and almost nothing is being said about the programs in Europe.

i don't know if nature, explicitly calls us for our end, it's what the conditions, and circumstances of our life point to. maybe an emergent property of life in general.

not everyone wants to CTB in 1 day, for example i tried to starve to death in 14-16 days but i haven't succeeded, that was in January to March 2020 (was also hospitalized in a RO asylum, which was mostly awful 3/10).

the masses are quite easy to influence, sometimes, see leaders like Trump, Stalin, Ceausescu (who was shot to death, and then the death penalty was swiftly abolished, and any attempts to reinstate that, were shot down, in Romania, maybe for the better, maybe for the worse).

there is a Stalin quote that said, paraphrased:
"our enemies shouldn't be let to have free ideas, since we have taken away their weapons, and don't allow them to have weapons, why should we let them have free ideas". so yeah, in this comment, i tried to speak more freely, to the best i could at 23:34 local time.

even if these leaders had good parts, i chose to highlight bad parts, because i felt they were more useful given the attention span i have.

i didn't want to format it via a LLM nor AI.

thanks for your message, take care, sleep well.

 

[fedup1982]

I don't think we have necessarily a deeper understanding or meaning, just an alternative one.

We are all different. We do all ascribe our own meaning to life, and each person that does so is not only entitled to their view, but their view is unique and uniquely correct for them at that time.

Unfortunately, partly because none of us know the future for ourselves, society jumps into protection mode and stops us from realising complete autonomy, and at times, I'd argue, justifiably.

What gets me is every life is subject to unavoidable suffering. Some people are more averse to it for various reasons. Perhaps due to bad memory or self delusion or whatever, most people think it's fine to expect others to go through it. I think it's deeply unfair but then again I'm biased. So who's right? I'm not the most wise so it's hard for me to say, but I do think the majority is wrong for forcing us through it all.

I found out I'm a "reverse utilitarianism" because I feel like suffering outweighs positive life experiences when calculating a moral ledger to make decisions about fairness, and when to allow someone to end their life, at possible cost to themselves or others

 

[M_E_S]

I don't think we have necessarily a deeper understanding or meaning, just an alternative one.

We are all different. We do all ascribe our own meaning to life, and each person that does so is not only entitled to their view, but their view is unique and uniquely correct for them at that time.

Unfortunately, partly because none of us know the future for ourselves, society jumps into protection mode and stops us from realising complete autonomy, and at times, I'd argue, justifiably.

What gets me is every life is subject to unavoidable suffering. Some people are more averse to it for various reasons. Perhaps due to bad memory or self delusion or whatever, most people think it's fine to expect others to go through it. I think it's deeply unfair but then again I'm biased. So who's right? I'm not the most wise so it's hard for me to say, but I do think the majority is wrong for forcing us through it all.

I found out I'm a "reverse utilitarianism" because I feel like suffering outweighs positive life experiences when calculating a moral ledger to make decisions about fairness, and when to allow someone to end their life, at possible cost to themselves or others

Yes, that subjectivity colors each person's reaction and consideration of their suffering. It's the difference between those who distinguish their suffering as random, isolated incidents from others who see them as a continuous, interconnected set of pieces, summative in their illustration of an existence defined by its suffering.

By deeper I meant that due to many of us having a proclivity to overthinking and overanalyzing, it creates a more fertile ground for real introsepection, especially with the critical eye so many of us place upon ourselves and our actions. As a result, I feel we are less likely to inflate or optimize reality from a place of blissful ignorance, brought on by willful and/or mindless distractions engineered to maintain the contented veneer regardless of circumstances around us.

 

[fedup1982]

Yes, that subjectivity colors each person's reaction and consideration of their suffering. It's the difference between those who distinguish their suffering as random, isolated incidents from others who see them as a continuous, interconnected set of pieces, summative in their illustration of an existence defined by its suffering.

By deeper I meant that due to many of us having a proclivity to overthinking and overanalyzing, it creates a more fertile ground for real introsepection, especially with the critical eye so many of us place upon ourselves and our actions. As a result, I feel we are less likely to inflate or optimize reality from a place of blissful ignorance, brought on by willful and/or mindless distractions engineered to maintain the contented veneer regardless of circumstances around us.

I agree. It makes sense.

This site probably has a larger share of deep thinkers compared with the rest of society.

I was just saying that there are equally deep thinkers that don't hold our views on suicide, so they shouldn't be dismissed as not thinking deeply. They just think deeply differently.

But yes I definitely agree we are probably deeper thinkers than the average person, because we have things we have no choice but to think deeply about and confront: namely, because we aren't handed suicide on a plate even though it's what we want so deeply

 

[M_E_S]

excuse my drive by comment, just a few thoughts i had, while still on the laptop, and before going to bed:

even if on average, it was discovered that most suicidal people had higher awareness, or a sort of depressive realism about life, it's one thing to say something, and a much more difficult thing to implement it.

another thing is, some countries like Canada, Belgium, Netherlands, Switzerland, have assisted suicide, and yet there doesn't seem to be a strong international pressure to shut that down. that's good.

there have been rumors of Canada's MAID of being inhumane, but imho, it's mostly conservative talking points, and almost nothing is being said about the programs in Europe.

i don't know if nature, explicitly calls us for our end, it's what the conditions, and circumstances of our life point to. maybe an emergent property of life in general.

not everyone wants to CTB in 1 day, for example i tried to starve to death in 14-16 days but i haven't succeeded, that was in January to March 2020 (was also hospitalized in a RO asylum, which was mostly awful 3/10).

the masses are quite easy to influence, sometimes, see leaders like Trump, Stalin, Ceausescu (who was shot to death, and then the death penalty was swiftly abolished, and any attempts to reinstate that, were shot down, in Romania, maybe for the better, maybe for the worse).

there is a Stalin quote that said, paraphrased:
"our enemies shouldn't be let to have free ideas, since we have taken away their weapons, and don't allow them to have weapons, why should we let them have free ideas". so yeah, in this comment, i tried to speak more freely, to the best i could at 23:34 local time.

even if these leaders had good parts, i chose to highlight bad parts, because i felt they were more useful given the attention span i have.

i didn't want to format it via a LLM nor AI.

thanks for your message, take care, sleep well.

I appreciate the historical examples.

Stalin in his infinite paranoia always trying to stay one step ahead of his enemies even if it meant the death of the entire Russian population.

It reminded me of an article about Churchill I read a few years back. He suffered his bouts of melancholy, which took him to dark and despondent places. But the author argued the depression also gave him a clarity about people and events most others lacked due to the artificial blinders people put up to cope with the never-ending glut of existential suffering and pain. This clarity allowed him to see and realize what the Austrian painter truly was well before he embarked on his genocidal crusade, and explains why he took such a definitive hard line in combatting Germany.

 

[bleeding_heart_show]

My question is, do those of us who hold suicide as a legitimate and viable means of exercising autonomy and fulfilling their own sense of meaning possess a deeper awareness.

In other words, because we tend to be more self aware, think deeply and consider things critically, could we be examples of humans who have realized their purpose is to die?

I feel as equally deluded as everyone else with a belief system.

For over a decade I have been unable to see any sort of existence as desirable. I could not reason someone that does not already agree with my position into agreeing with it because it is innate to me in the same way their eros is innate to them (not to imply I am entirely unaffected by eros).

Enough anecdotes, back to your original question; for someone to subscribe to the ideology regarding suicide that you have described they would have to dedicate more thought to suicide than most do in a lifetime. I suppose in a way this could be considered greater awareness, but for me this raises the question of this awareness even mattering. It could even be seen as detrimental since it causes those with it to experience greater anguish than those without.