An open letter: From a virgin man to incels and adjacents.

[Unbearable Mr. Bear]

First of all, thank you for your interest. I'm not very good with words and I tend to get emotional on large spiels but I hope I'll be able to communicate my thoughts. I am a man, around 30 years old, bissexual, and a virgin, grown on "family values" (mainly Christian) but not really tied to them or to the religion they come from (I'm Agnostic tending towards Ignosticism). I'm saying this so that you can where I'm coming from and to give a bit of context to why and how I think.

What I know of incels and adjacents is that they are mostly heterosexual men grown on traditional (most likely patriarchal) values, either in a cultural sense or a literal sense. More or less, they are grown on a patriarchal bubble, particularly regarding sexuality and gender roles, and when that bubble pops and they are shown the diversity of reality, they panic and wish to either impose or adapt their ways, frustrating themselves when they can't do it. Basically, they are fish out of water because they've grown in water that is toxic to most people (And probably are to themselves, though they are used to it).

I'm saying this because incels are humans. They didn't become what they are just because. They've been raised in a harmful place and it has permeated them deeply. What they believe is mostly due to how deeply seated this toxicity has become, and the longer they stay in it, the harder it is to take them out of this mess.

But regardless of how hard it is, I think it's important we communicate to them what we think, even if they think we're wrong or if it's hard for them to believe. So I've prepared a few things I think should be told towards incels.

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STOP USING "INCEL"

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Seriously, what's wrong with calling yourself a "virgin"? The word "incel" is loaded with negative connotations. Even if it is an acronym for "INvoluntary CELibate", its meaning has transcended that. It means men who have a strong sexist stance towards others, specially women. Changing the word won't change who you are, but it sure changes how others initially view you, and that by itself may help you get out of the stigma that has permeated you.

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BEAUTY IS RELATIVE

---

"It's in the eye of the beholder", and we're not talking just DnD here. While evolutionary biology identifies cross-cultural, universal markers of physical attractiveness linked to health and genetic fitness (such as facial symmetry and waist-to-hip ratio), Individual variation is significant. Capitalism tries to converge them into unity to more easily sell beauty products and garments, but like everything capitalism does, it's driven by profit and almost all of it is artificial and harmful to actual humans.

Disregarding capitalism, while cultural norms also coalesce towards standards, they are far more flexible and variable, and it just becomes even more variable when at an individual level. It doesn't matter how ugly you think you are, there are people who find you beautiful in a way or another. You may not find them right now, but they exist.

Also, beauty goes beyond the physical realm. You might find beauty on things like voice, or text, or actions. Really, beauty is such a flexible and variable concept that I find surprising how rigid it becomes within the incel community, as if anything outside of that very restrictive apex is nothing short of disgusting. Perhaps part of it is self inflicted by the toxicity within the group, but that's speculation on my part.

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"GAME" IS ABUSIVE

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As the main grievance of the incel community is being a virgin, no wonder scammers created a whole concept to scam them wholesale. "Game" doesn't exist outside the very people that profit with it. It's as real as Cure-all.

The "Alpha" wolf theory was disproved for wild wolves (it was based on captive, unrelated wolves forming unnatural dominance hierarchies). While primatologists do observe alpha/beta/omega hierarchies in primates like chimpanzees, attempting to map these animal behaviors onto human dating dynamics is scientifically baseless. Trying to apply this disproven theory into picking up women is honestly so illogical, I wonder how it even caught on.

Actually, I know how it caught on. It's desperation. It's the toxicity the community pushes, that you are a failure because you are not an "Alpha", that you are lesser, that you are unwanted, that you MUST have sex, because otherwise you lose the "Game". That's what the scammer tells you, and you believe because you want to win. You are a victim, my friend, a victim of a grifter, and I tell you this not as an insult, but as a way for you to understand they took advantage of your vulnerability, and should not be trusted anymore by you or anyone else.

So overall, "Game" is abusive towards others and towards you as well. The whole incel community are being scammed to be taught how to be abusive and manipulative towards others, mostly women, thinking that's how the world works, but in reality, they're just being a pawn of toxicity. Would you like someone to lie and manipulate you into sex? Some of you may like it as a fetish, but believe me, real world doesn't work like fantasies.

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So, in conclusion, you cannot be loved for being good at some "Game" grifters invented to profit out of you, or for being an "Alpha" based on chimp behavior, or because you conform to a beauty standard. You can only be loved for who you are, not for what a community that values lies and scams tells you should be.

I'm open to questions, but understand that I'm not the master of the truth. All of this has been an opinion, with a bit of research to back part of it. You are welcome to disagree, but please, BE CIVIL! I intend here to be a place not of clash, but of exchange of ideas. Everyone here is human and flawed, so let's treat everyone as such, okay?

 

[Aknu132]

I loved your text, you seem like a really nice person to be around. In life, even bad people suffer; the incel community is horrible to others, but at the same time, they also suffer a lot. Life itself is suffering for almost everyone, and yet people continue to perpetuate life. It would be so much better if life had no chance of existing in the universe so that no one would suffer in any way.

 

[Unbearable Mr. Bear]

Sometimes I think like that too. Suffering sucks, and while life allows suffering, it also allows us to mitigate part of it, either for ourselves or for others. If we can't end suffering outright, we should at least try to decrease it where we can.

I made the post because while I see some outright psychopathic incels, I also see incels who are just lonely and want love. The community itself is terrible, but there are genuinely good people that could be taken off that toxic pit to allow them to recover. That is my way of decreasing suffering. And I hope at least one person suffers less because of me.

Also, thanks for the compliment. Mama bear is always available for everyone if they need someone, sweetie.

 

[Aknu132]

Sometimes I think like that too. Suffering sucks, and while life allows suffering, it also allows us to mitigate part of it, either for ourselves or for others. If we can't end suffering outright, we should at least try to decrease it where we can.

Yes, we should spread as much love as possible, at least to make someone's day better, to lessen a little the suffering that people go through.

I made the post because while I see some outright psychopathic incels, I also see incels who are just lonely and want love. The community itself is terrible, but there are genuinely good people that could be taken off that toxic pit to allow them to recover. That is my way of decreasing suffering. And I hope at least one person suffers less because of me.

There are things that some incels say about women that reach an absurd level of cruelty. Sometimes I wonder if they will actually do what they say, and I really hope not. But yes, there are some incels who, despite being pulled into that sick community, can still be saved and change their mindset of blaming women for everything.

Also, thanks for the compliment. Mama bear is always available for everyone if they need someone, sweetie.

You're so sweet, i love how lovely you are, you makes the day brighter, especially in this world with so many empty people.

 

[Unbearable Mr. Bear]

There are things that some incels say about women that reach an absurd level of cruelty. Sometimes I wonder if they will actually do what they say, and I really hope not. But yes, there are some incels who, despite being pulled into that sick community, can still be saved and change their mindset of blaming women for everything.

The community itself is a magnet to all kinds of nasty people. Some are nasty in what they say, others in what they do, and a few are both. Sometimes I wonder if some of the denizens believe it's just a big fantasy like the Omegaverse (NSFW, just in case you look it up) or if they truly believe the world is like that, either by assimilation, delusion or purpose.

In any case, I personally believe people can get out and get clean, if they're not one of the aforementioned nasty people that do it on purpose. Having a community doesn't have to cost you your respect towards others or yourself. If you are in a community that does that, you should get out into another, better community.

You're so sweet, i love how lovely you are, you makes the day brighter, especially in this world with so many empty people.

You make mama blush, sweetheart. I'm here to make people feel better and loved, even if just a little. Mama bear always has room for another cub in her warm heart.

 

[klantedklaw]

Thanks for posting this thread. A lot of Neurodivergent people and/or those with mental illnesses/ trauma struggle to form connections and make friends, let alone have healthy romantic relationships/ have sex. As you said, "Incel" just means involuntarily celibate - just because the term has been appropriated by misogynists and toxic extremeists doesn't automatically mean you identify or resonate with any of their beliefs, that's such an absurd assumption. It's an offensive stereotype based on one characteristic, its no different to stereotyping a blonde german person as being a Nazi or a black person as being a criminal.

The assumption people make about Incels demonizes and outcasts them even more - many of these people are traumatized and/or inflicted with mental illnesses and haven't done anything wrong. Would you call a rape victim an Incel if they're traumatized and can't have sex? What about someone with crippling social anxiety with no friends? or someone with severe depression and depersonalisation?

Many vulnerable people are already struggling with mental issues; getting hate for a downstream effect of their mental struggles and being demonized for being a virgin makes their pain even worse. The cultural and social value of sex, especially for men in the form of arbitrary notions of masculinity & "alpha culture", means society see's those as unable to have sex as inferior, pathetic and worthless. That culture extends to online spaces too, where even on places like Sasu, a place literally filled to the brim with chronically lonely and mentally unwell people, many of who don't even have any real connections, you still have people making offensive assumptions and hating on people unable to have sex.

I think that mysgonists and extremists should get hate for spouting their ideas and lots of people do hate on them, however the angry mob needs to distinguish between Incels and the memebers of "Incel culture" and not make judgements about others just because they're a virgin. I've met plenty of Incels, none of which harbor any hatred towards women - they're just broken people unable to have sex, thats it.

The dictionary and social definitions of "Incel" are completely different and just because someone can't have sex doesn't mean you can project an entire ideology on them. Don't let anyone define your worth, let alone because of something so surface level like sex.

 

[violetforever]

one of the best threads ive ever read on here! <3 and you're excellent with words.

 

[extremelyugly]

BEAUTY IS RELATIVE

---

"It's in the eye of the beholder", and we're not talking just DnD here. While evolutionary biology identifies cross-cultural, universal markers of physical attractiveness linked to health and genetic fitness (such as facial symmetry and waist-to-hip ratio), Individual variation is significant. Capitalism tries to converge them into unity to more easily sell beauty products and garments, but like everything capitalism does, it's driven by profit and almost all of it is artificial and harmful to actual humans.

Disregarding capitalism, while cultural norms also coalesce towards standards, they are far more flexible and variable, and it just becomes even more variable when at an individual level. It doesn't matter how ugly you think you are, there are people who find you beautiful in a way or another. You may not find them right now, but they exist.

Also, beauty goes beyond the physical realm. You might find beauty on things like voice, or text, or actions. Really, beauty is such a flexible and variable concept that I find surprising how rigid it becomes within the incel community, as if anything outside of that very restrictive apex is nothing short of disgusting. Perhaps part of it is self inflicted by the toxicity within the group, but that's speculation on my part.

No. All the rest is fine, but this, no. Why would you "disregard" capitalism and cultural norms? It's literally delusion to disregard reality. Plus, however much you want to deny it, most of the times, women find the same kind of guys attractive, and I mean physically, and why would that be something to deny? But that's how it is. What ISN'T said, is how much being truly ugly affects you, because most incels sure, they aren't probably objectively attractive and some may even be below average, but being truly ugly... nah, it's better to be dead, believe me.

 

[Unbearable Mr. Bear]

Thanks for posting this thread. A lot of Neurodivergent people and/or those with mental illnesses/ trauma struggle to form connections and make friends, let alone have healthy romantic relationships/ have sex. As you said, "Incel" just means involuntarily celibate - just because the term has been appropriated by misogynists and toxic extremeists doesn't automatically mean you identify or resonate with any of their beliefs, that's such an absurd assumption. It's an offensive stereotype based on one characteristic, its no different to stereotyping a blonde german person as being a Nazi or a black person as being a criminal.

The assumption people make about Incels demonizes and outcasts them even more - many of these people are traumatized and/or inflicted with mental illnesses and haven't done anything wrong. Would you call a rape victim an Incel if they're traumatized and can't have sex? What about someone with crippling social anxiety with no friends? or someone with severe depression and depersonalisation?

Many vulnerable people are already struggling with mental issues; getting hate for a downstream effect of their mental struggles and being demonized for being a virgin makes their pain even worse. The cultural and social value of sex, especially for men in the form of arbitrary notions of masculinity & "alpha culture", means society see's those as unable to have sex as inferior, pathetic and worthless. That culture extends to online spaces too, where even on places like Sasu, a place literally filled to the brim with chronically lonely and mentally unwell people, many of who don't even have any real connections, you still have people making offensive assumptions and hating on people unable to have sex.

I think that mysgonists and extremists should get hate for spouting their ideas and lots of people do hate on them, however the angry mob needs to distinguish between Incels and the memebers of "Incel culture" and not make judgements about others just because they're a virgin. I've met plenty of Incels, none of which harbor any hatred towards women - they're just broken people unable to have sex, thats it.

The dictionary and social definitions of "Incel" are completely different and just because someone can't have sex doesn't mean you can project an entire ideology on them. Don't let anyone define your worth, let alone because of something so surface level like sex.

The "Angry Mob" is rightfully angry at the community for fostering hatred and toxicity towards others. That's why I advocate against using the word. Virgin means the same as incel in the right context and carries none of the manosphere connotations. Unless you truly do identify with all the toxicity of the community, you should do yourself a favor and absolutely NOT use incel as a label for yourself. If someone calls you an incel, correct them and say you're a virgin. If they think both mean the same thing, say you don't identify with the toxicity of the community and you're simply someone without sex experience, full stop.

one of the best threads ive ever read on here! <3 and you're excellent with words.

Thank you, dear! I tried to be as non judgemental as possible. I expected more people to find problems with it, bones to pick so to speak, but it seems I hit the spot there. I really hope it helps people look at themselves separate from a bad community such as the Incel one.

 

[Unbearable Mr. Bear]

No. All the rest is fine, but this, no. Why would you "disregard" capitalism and cultural norms? It's literally delusion to disregard reality. Plus, however much you want to deny it, most of the times, women find the same kind of guys attractive, and I mean physically, and why would that be something to deny? But that's how it is. What ISN'T said, is how much being truly ugly affects you, because most incels sure, they aren't probably objectively attractive and some may even be below average, but being truly ugly... nah, it's better to be dead, believe me.

I didn't deny the universal markers, which dictate attractiveness on a biological level (which nobody can deny or turn off), and I did not disregard capitalism or cultural norms, I just noted that despite them, there is still significant variation. The generalization you make upon women is hyperbole, and exactly the kind the incel community tries to instill in its members, and why I'm trying to warn about letting it mold people.

Friend, you seem to have had a real hard time regarding your physical appearance, and for that I'm sorry, nobody deserves to be judged by such superficial matters alone. But the point of the part of my post where I discuss beauty is not disproved by your experiences, as terrible as they were. My post is targeted towards a large group of people, so it addresses general trends rather than individual extremes.

 

[extremelyugly]

I didn't deny the universal markers, which dictate attractiveness on a biological level (which nobody can deny or turn off), and I did not disregard capitalism or cultural norms, I just noted that despite them, there is still significant variation. The generalization you make upon women is hyperbole, and exactly the kind the incel community tries to instill in its members, and why I'm trying to warn about letting it mold people.

Friend, you seem to have had a real hard time regarding your physical appearance, and for that I'm sorry, nobody deserves to be judged by such superficial matters alone. But the point of the part of my post where I discuss beauty is not disproved by your experiences, as terrible as they were. My post is targeted towards a large group of people, so it addresses general trends rather than individual extremes.

Reality doesn't align with what you're saying though, that's the issue; it's why I believe it, not because that or this community believes it, but because it's the truth. It doesn't matter if my experiences are bad or not, it's how biology works. Why deny it? What does someone gain from denying such a basic fact of how it works? That I cannot and will never understand, other than it being a very uncomfortable truth to accept that shallowness is ingrained from birth and permeates every interaction whether someone likes it or not.
Look, I'm extremely "combative" on these talk points because it directly affects me, so forgive me if I come as a cunt, but I cannot take this anymore, not in here too.

 

[Unbearable Mr. Bear]

Reality doesn't align with what you're saying though, that's the issue; it's why I believe it, not because that or this community believes it, but because it's the truth. It doesn't matter if my experiences are bad or not, it's how biology works. Why deny it? What does someone gain from denying such a basic fact of how it works? That I cannot and will never understand, other than it being a very uncomfortable truth to accept that shallowness is ingrained from birth and permeates every interaction whether someone likes it or not.
Look, I'm extremely "combative" on these talk points because it directly affects me, so forgive me if I come as a cunt, but I cannot take this anymore, not in here too.

Regarding shallowness : While physical appearance influences initial impressions, it isn't all encompassing. Long-term bonding relies on shared values and emotional connection, which override pure biological impulse.

You do not need to believe in my opinion, and I did not write the post to attack your worldview. I'm not a scientist or professional researcher, and I stated before that what I write here should be regarded as opinion until noted otherwise.

You're not a cunt, friend, you're just someone that like most of us here is extremely frustrated with life and how it has seemingly led us towards a sad existence. Everyone here has a different reason, each with their own rocky roads, and all of us need to vent from time to time. So no, you're not a cunt, you're a human being that is sensitive on the topic of human beauty, due to how it affected your life.

This post is not intended to harm or upset you, because as I said earlier, it aims to explain general trends, and not specific cases. It was not meant to be an all encompassing model, but just a general observation.

 

[amy joyce]

If someone calls you an incel, correct them and say you're a virgin. If they think both mean the same thing, say you don't identify with the toxicity of the community and you're simply someone without sex experience, full stop.

I'm curious why anyone should or would take it upon themselves to say anything to anyone about their personal sex life?

I find it baffling that people would put some kind of label or identity onto themselves that may be perceived (outwardly or by one's self) in any kind of negative way (that'd obviously depend on the circumstances). It'd be an individuals opinion but could be perceived as negative by others outside of any well established, safe confines.

Maybe it's different online and in forums where there is complete anonymity. But even then it can still hurt and someone can be hounded. Anyone around hearing negativity about others in the same situation or awareness might to.
*Kudos to the OP for their confidence and self awareness, but many people don't have that. I think maybe I'm old fashioned and think it's too revealing, keen almost stating a sexual preference. which was something never disclosed in my day (before internet of course).

There seems to be a phenomenon these days of openly identifying in various ways. The best advice I ever received from a doctor was not to live a label (he was reluctant to diagnose me I think) but I thought it was generally good advice and always tried to avoid it. Maybe I'm so in awe about it all is because I've felt that way for quite a while.

 

[Unbearable Mr. Bear]

I'm curious why anyone should or would take it upon themselves to say anything to anyone about their personal sex life?

I find it baffling that people would put some kind of label or identity onto themselves that may be perceived (outwardly or by one's self) in any kind of negative way (that'd obviously depend on the circumstances). It'd be an individuals opinion but could be perceived as negative by others outside of any well established, safe confines.

Maybe it's different online and in forums where there is complete anonymity. But even then it can still hurt and someone can be hounded. Anyone around hearing negativity about others in the same situation or awareness might to.
*Kudos to the OP for their confidence and self awareness, but many people don't have that. I think maybe I'm old fashioned and think it's too revealing, keen almost stating a sexual preference. which was something never disclosed in my day (before internet of course).

There seems to be a phenomenon these days of openly identifying in various ways. The best advice I ever received from a doctor was not to live a label (he was reluctant to diagnose me I think) but I thought it was generally good advice and always tried to avoid it. Maybe I'm so in awe about it all is because I've felt that way for quite a while.

I was talking mostly in the context of the word "incel", which is short for INvoluntary CELibate. If someone calls you an incel, they're calling you a virgin, plus all that extra baggage from the incel community. Perhaps correcting to "virgin" may be a bit straightforward, but it's like putting a line: "I may be a virgin, but I do not partake in the incel community's toxicity."

It is true that sexual expression, specially on the internet, is getting more open, but context also applies. If someone is calling you an incel, they're using a sexually loaded term, so using another sexually loaded one is fair game. And if you just want to reply without calling yourself a virgin, you can just tell them you don't identify with the community. The example I showed was just one example, used by a community where sex is put on a pedestal, so it makes sense to communicate to them likewise.

Labels can help in certain situations, but I do share your opinion that labels are generalizations, and should be seen as such. One should try their best to see past them and treat individuals like such. If one wants to label themselves in a sexual way, maybe that's a way they want to communicate something about themselves to people that resonate with that label. It's all about context, in the end, and as long as people are open to be understanding, I think it's okay to do so.

 

[Awesomefoid67]

The "Angry Mob" is rightfully angry at the community for fostering hatred and toxicity towards others. That's why I advocate against using the word. Virgin means the same as incel in the right context and carries none of the manosphere connotations. Unless you truly do identify with all the toxicity of the community, you should do yourself a favor and absolutely NOT use incel as a label for yourself. If someone calls you an incel, correct them and say you're a virgin. If they think both mean the same thing, say you don't identify with the toxicity of the community and you're simply someone without sex experience, full stop.

Thank you, dear! I tried to be as non judgemental as possible. I expected more people to find problems with it, bones to pick so to speak, but it seems I hit the spot there. I really hope it helps people look at themselves separate from a bad community such as the Incel one.

to be fair virgin as a word is also not very good tbh. it's a pointless term that;s basically just used to devalue women who arent afraid to explore their sexuality and to devalue men who havent had sex yet because the patriarchy views sex as a form of power/control and women who dont conform to that or men who arent able to get insulted. honestly i think it's easier and better to just simply say you havent had sex

but also like i've never seen someone apply the incel label to someone just because they havent had sex, i've only seen it used for the toxic side so i think theres no reason to try reclaim the word or argue anything like that idk, if you arent part of that community and describe you4self as an incel thats kind of on you. like if someone used 4chan but not any of the toxic boards and described themselves as a "4channer" theyre technically right but the label has alot of other connotations.

language adapts over time and incel no longer just means someone who hasnt had sex, instead it refers to the toxic subgroup. like take for example the word "based", originally when it was made up by that one rapper it meant "being yourself no matter what others think", yet now it's used as just a general term saying you agree with something or think its good, and if you tried tovuse it the old way people would be either confused or think you're a bad person depending on what youre saying it to. thats not their fault for assuming that just because it's not the technical definition

 

[amy joyce]

It's all about context, in the end, and as long as people are open to be understanding, I think it's okay to do so.

I could quote and say more in response because I'm intrigued, but also getting very tired.

Anyway, you are absolutely right that it's up to the person to choose for whatever reason and hopefully others to be considerate enough to understand and move on if they have nothing good to say.. But as you may have guess I'm a Mother and a brokenhearted one at that. I've watched many people regularly (daily) label themselves negatively (long story) which about drove me mad. So in that sense I worry for people, if you can believe it. I don't want someone to identify as something in this world of identity politics and then down the road as it changes (and it will), regret it.

Or even long before then they may feel some negative consequence of "living" a label, or practicing being a label in their every day lives which can crush their spirit or kind of push down all of the other wonderful attributes they have, just to focus on being something. Maybe it's being an alcoholic or gay or a Hispanic woman with cancer. *Note I got a little carried away for emphasis. It's a bit of a passion of mine to try and keep people positive and at least try to live or be the best of themselves, which can many a dozen different, wonderful attributes. Peace and blessings.

 

[Unbearable Mr. Bear]

to be fair virgin as a word is also not very good tbh. it's a pointless term that;s basically just used to devalue women who arent afraid to explore their sexuality and to devalue men who havent had sex yet because the patriarchy views sex as a form of power/control and women who dont conform to that or men who arent able to get insulted. honestly i think it's easier and better to just simply say you havent had sex

but also like i've never seen someone apply the incel label to someone just because they havent had sex, i've only seen it used for the toxic side so i think theres no reason to try reclaim the word or argue anything like that idk, if you arent part of that community and describe you4self as an incel thats kind of on you. like if someone used 4chan but not any of the toxic boards and described themselves as a "4channer" theyre technically right but the label has alot of other connotations.

language adapts over time and incel no longer just means someone who hasnt had sex, instead it refers to the toxic subgroup. like take for example the word "based", originally when it was made up by that one rapper it meant "being yourself no matter what others think", yet now it's used as just a general term saying you agree with something or think its good, and if you tried tovuse it the old way people would be either confused or think you're a bad person depending on what youre saying it to. thats not their fault for assuming that just because it's not the technical definition

You're not wrong. Perhaps it's better to just state that one does not have sex experience to avoid confusion. And you're right pointing out that incel is majorly used to identify with the community than the etymology of the word itself.

I could quote and say more in response because I'm intrigued, but also getting very tired.

Anyway, you are absolutely right that it's up to the person to choose for whatever reason and hopefully others to be considerate enough to understand and move on if they have nothing good to say.. But as you may have guess I'm a Mother and a brokenhearted one at that. I've watched many people regularly (daily) label themselves negatively (long story) which about drove me mad. So in that sense I worry for people, if you can believe it. I don't want someone to identify as something in this world of identity politics and then down the road as it changes (and it will), regret it.

Or even long before then they may feel some negative consequence of "living" a label, or practicing being a label in their every day lives which can crush their spirit or kind of push down all of the other wonderful attributes they have, just to focus on being something. Maybe it's being an alcoholic or gay or a Hispanic woman with cancer. *Note I got a little carried away for emphasis. It's a bit of a passion of mine to try and keep people positive and at least try to live or be the best of themselves, which can many a dozen different, wonderful attributes. Peace and blessings.

You're a wonderful person for being open about it. We humans are a social species, so trying to be part of a group is natural. Some people label themselves to be seen as part of a group, either only in their minds or truly. Identity politics aside, it's just human nature to want to be seen, and labels are often an easy way to, but you're right in that there may be regret on choosing labels that worsen how others or yourself view who you are. Just remember that labels are tools and that there is always a human being behind them. How they are applied determines whether they help or hinder.

 

[3rdworldsadness]

Beautifully written. I come up with incel term in internet before that I didn't know that's an English word! But knowing the word and how people described incel is sad cause people will say incel if someone is bit werid in internet and I agree with you. Internet culture can be harsh on many times. I'm a virgin too and that's not even a problem because in 3rd world money and poverty is the biggest problem of all..... and I'm struggling everyday.... and diversity is beauty to me. Beauty is absolutely relative. I don't about the game I guess it's a 1st world thing

 

[Unbearable Mr. Bear]

Beautifully written. I come up with incel term in internet before that I didn't know that's an English word! But knowing the word and how people described incel is sad cause people will say incel if someone is bit werid in internet and I agree with you. Internet culture can be harsh on many times. I'm a virgin too and that's not even a problem because in 3rd world money and poverty is the biggest problem of all..... and I'm struggling everyday.... and diversity is beauty to me. Beauty is absolutely relative. I don't about the game I guess it's a 1st world thing

When I first came upon the word, it was also mostly used as a generic insult than a descriptor. A lot of people use the internet as a place to unleash their shadow selves, because the lack of accountability and the mental disconnect of having a screen between users makes it easier to act out in ways they wouldn't in other circumstances.

"Game" and pick up artists exist in 3rd world countries as well, but it's more relegated towards the upper classes. Lower classes have more to worry about than some conman telling them they're worthless without their sex secrets, as you said yourself.

 

[extremelyugly]

Regarding shallowness : While physical appearance influences initial impressions, it isn't all encompassing. Long-term bonding relies on shared values and emotional connection, which override pure biological impulse.

You do not need to believe in my opinion, and I did not write the post to attack your worldview. I'm not a scientist or professional researcher, and I stated before that what I write here should be regarded as opinion until noted otherwise.

You're not a cunt, friend, you're just someone that like most of us here is extremely frustrated with life and how it has seemingly led us towards a sad existence. Everyone here has a different reason, each with their own rocky roads, and all of us need to vent from time to time. So no, you're not a cunt, you're a human being that is sensitive on the topic of human beauty, due to how it affected your life.

This post is not intended to harm or upset you, because as I said earlier, it aims to explain general trends, and not specific cases. It was not meant to be an all encompassing model, but just a general observation.

Oh I don't entirely disagree with that, I do believe those are important in long term, but not before physical appearances. But anyway I don't believe you intended to attack me, nor anything resembling that, it's just my life has been such impacted negatively by it that I just get frankly triggered by anything that resembles the typical retreaded talking points that are often used to dismiss the existance of lookism. So, I am sorry for being rude or seeming abrasive, because it was more of a vent, that's true.
It's fine. I just wish I didn't exist anymore just like most of us here.

 

[Unbearable Mr. Bear]

Oh I don't entirely disagree with that, I do believe those are important in long term, but not before physical appearances. But anyway I don't believe you intended to attack me, nor anything resembling that, it's just my life has been such impacted negatively by it that I just get frankly triggered by anything that resembles the typical retreaded talking points that are often used to dismiss the existance of lookism. So, I am sorry for being rude or seeming abrasive, because it was more of a vent, that's true.
It's fine. I just wish I didn't exist anymore just like most of us here.

It's okay, friend, I believe we all understand how it feels to be pushed to the limit. I understand how the visual impression can hinder starting a bond with someone, specially when it's a romantic or sexual one. It is an extra hurdle, but one I think can be overcome by other aspects such as personality and other deeper connections. People who rely solely on physical impressions are utilizing a common cognitive bias, not a moral judgment of your worth. Those willing to move beyond initial impressions might not be the majority, but they exist. Finding them takes time and luck, but it is not impossible.

I am not saying you must go out and find them. I know how depleted you are, and suggesting that would be irresponsible. I am offering this as an alternative perspective to the finality of lookism: the existence of people who can appreciate you is a factual counterpoint to the belief that no one ever will.