Discussion what do you consider an attempt?

[akira.kewl]

I want to know for future reference what the best label would be, if I end up failing or backing out. I'll be using partial hanging as the example method here, since this kind of thing varies by method. At which of the following points do you consider it to go from ideation to a full-on attempt on one's life?

1: The rope is set up, but the person ends up taking it down.
2: The rope is set up, and the person puts their neck in it, but pulls out before tightening it.
3: The rope is set up, and the person kneels down and applies pressure. The person stands up before they pass out.
4: The person kneels down and applies pressure until they've passed out. They wake up, and untie the rope voluntarily.
5: The person kneels down until they've passed out. They are found and the rope is untied involuntarily. They receive medical attention.

 

[sanctionedusage]

4 and 5 are attempts. 1-3 are working up to the attempt but not doing it. the difference is the commitment to the first sign of success. in hanging, the first sign of success is usually the last though.

blacking out should be the end goal— if you wake up after that, it's a failed attempt. if you woke up and did it again, that'd be an attempt and then a success, or 2 attempts. for something like poisoning, vomiting once and then calling emergency services would also be classified as an attempt imo, since the first sign of success showed in vomiting, regardless of what happened afterwards.

 

[avstin]

It depends on who you ask, but for me and from what I've heard, all of the above can be called an attempt. Any actions aimed at bringing you closer to suicide can be considered one

 

[Eriktf]

My opinion:

If you try to hurt yourself in anyway but don't intent to die its SH

If you prepare the setup its neither SH or an attempt. Just suicide thought.

If you do try to hurt your self with the intent of suicide then its an attempt I you back out or fail

Just having the rope around your neck and give some pressure and apply pressure then back out its an failed attempt.

If you start the attempt and are committed to die then its an attempt.

In short if you actually do try to die then its an attempt in 99% of the time if you ask me otherwise its just self harm or thoughts.

There is a reason for it to be called "committed suicide" you have to commit to die.


1 and 2 are not an attempt
3 is only an attempt if they wanted to die before backing out, can also be SH if they plan of backing out
4 and 5 is an attempt

 

[eggsausagerice]

i've only gone up to 3 because i've never passed out from partial hanging and my head feels awful and like it's going to explode when i try to do full suspension. 4 and 5 are real suicide attempts because an attempt was made and they survived it because of outside/involuntary forces.

 

[noheart]

4 and 5.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I agree with others- 4 and 5. 3 sounds borderline though maybe.

I suppose I find it slightly odd when people equate thinking (seriously) about doing it with an actual attempt.

As a parallel- equate it with homicide. Which would be considered an attempted murder?

1. To fetch a knife from the drawer and think about killing someone.

2. To carry the knife with them when they leave the house.

3. To meet the person and have their hand gripping the knife- but not use it.

4. For them to stab them in potentially life threatening areas and run away. But, they survive.

5. For them to stab them in potentially life threatening areas but they are stopped and they survive.

None of those scenarios are good- obviously but- only the last two would presumably be prosecuted as attempted murder.

Like others have said- there's thinking seriously about an action. Even preparing for an action with the full intention to do it and then there's doing it with intention.

 

[akira.kewl]

4 and 5 are attempts. 1-3 are working up to the attempt but not doing it. the difference is the commitment to the first sign of success. in hanging, the first sign of success is usually the last though.

blacking out should be the end goal— if you wake up after that, it's a failed attempt. if you woke up and did it again, that'd be an attempt and then a success, or 2 attempts. for something like poisoning, vomiting once and then calling emergency services would also be classified as an attempt imo, since the first sign of success showed in vomiting, regardless of what happened afterwards.

and what about deep into 3, which can also have signs of success? like beginning to feel dizzy/near passing out but standing up before you do. would that be an attempt?

 

[sanctionedusage]

and what about deep into 3, which can also have signs of success? like beginning to feel dizzy/near passing out but standing up before you do. would that be an attempt?

id say that isnt commitment to it, its backing out before the first sign even takes hold

 

[ChamberOfEchoes]

A suicide attempt is any act carried out with the genuine intention to die, whose lethal outcome is prevented solely by external causes or contingent failure, not by a change of intent.

 

[WhatCouldHaveBeen32]

Depends on the method. Some methods don't really have a 3 which to me reads more like self-harm/self reassurance that the method will work, is stable, etc.

SN for example, you should not taste test SN or test ingest, it is already known to be deadly if it's the right stuff and you do the protocol.

It's kind of 1. have Sn 2. Make glass 4. Ingest SN. What happens between 2-4 is difference between preparing for attempt and actually going through with it.

 

[Forveleth]

Is there a particular reason you are so concerned with labeling what you do?

 

[nitrogenous]

I actually have been having my own similar question. If I've ordered nitrogen in the past with the intention to end my life, but it got interfered before I managed to set it up, does it count as an attempt? I feel like I often get ambivalent about it and feel as if it's invalid, although I know if it hadn't been interrupted I would have gone with it.

 

[Almost Dead]

3, 4, 5 I guess? Honestly I feel that a suicide attempt is any time you attempt to end your life with genuine intention to die, and are stopped or "rescued" by either: SI in the midst of action, or outside forces during/after. 1 & 2 (and kind of 3 depending) feel more like prep/plans, but I believe it comes down mostly to intent in combination with specific action.

I admit though, like Forveleth, I'm kind of confused on why the need to meticulously break the process down for labeling?