Venting The gaslighting is obnoxious

[Sadbanana]

I wish people had an actual empathy where they really can put themselves in someone elses situation. Many people would at least acknowledge that there are certain things that give their life meaning: sex, respect, validation, sense of belonging, sense of being usefull. But they fail to admit that if you live a life where these things are fundamentally unavailable to you, you have the right to not want to live.

Because of them I have this cognitive dissonance. I know that this life isn't worth living rationally. But it is more harder to subconsciously accept it when there is this constant pull of opposite messaging and toxic positivity. We are slaves of validation and need our ideas validated too. But it's hard when everyone disagrees with you without even hearing you out. Everyone is just virtue signaling for invisible audience instead of really looking at your situation and acknowledging that they really wouldn't want to be in your shoes, that is what I think real empathy and honesty would look like.

I would say it's probably meme that persists from religiosity and delusion about sanctity of life. Or maybe it's even older, and during tribal stage the man power was so needed that tribes that gaslit tribal members to keep going despite their life being objectively bad had much higher chance of survival.

I care about truth. And truth is that this is not worth it for me, no metter what hypocritical bullshit anyone says. They wouldn't want this life too.

Real empathy is unpleasant, because it threatens their naive worldview. Real material help takes too much effort. But giving empty platitudes is a cheap way how to appear as a good person.

 

[SoulCage]

I totally feel your pain. And I am sure most people just have to gaslight themselves to make sense of this existence and that's why they use it on other people too (it's all they know what to do). But as you said ... They ignore that everyone's situation is different, everyone's values are different... Societal structures assume we all have the same capabilities and therefore need "fixing" if we don't produce a certain output. And if we refuse to be fixed in a way that they think is right.. then we are just flagged as "lost causes".

 

[Forever Sleep]

I think part of the issue is- I imagine a lot of people don't like being told they got those things on a platter- sex, respect, validation, sense of belonging and being useful. They can likely describe what they did in life to achieve those things.

They may have felt it wasn't a breeze for them. That they had to overcome great adversity to get some of those things. So- they may simply not have the patience towards someone who says all of those things are unavailable to them (if it seems as if they didn't try hard enough.) Whether that's true or not. Whether they had debilitating circumstances. It's hard to judge. We only know what it's like to live our life.

Maybe it's not quite so much they don't see the value in those things though. More that they don't all appear by magic. Certainly though, some people will have the greater advantage to be able to succeed.

But say- feeling useful. We can surely feel useful by taking action to be useful. Volunteer work, everyday kindness to others. Some stuff in life really does follow a cause and effect pattern.

Of course, where it can of course go horribly wrong is where we try everything and get nowhere. Can we say we've tried everything though? I know I can't.

It's difficult to deny what we really feel or want though. If we feel we'll only be happy if we experience that relationship or, get that job or whatever else and, it truly does seem like we won't- no matter how hard we try. Then, I'm not sure what we can do. Can we always lower our expectations to be more realistic? I'm not really sure.

That's been my experience though. If I whinged about not having a certain thing, the response would tend to be- what am I doing to achieve it? Which, is a fair response really.

It was sometimes because unwanted things- like social anxiety- were holding me back but then- I should have done more to overcome that if that other thing was so important to me.

I suppose talking to others I thought were effortlessly successful, I realised that they were willing to overcome some of the same fears I wasn't. I used to try to play the card that I was different. That I found things more difficult than other people but, maybe we'll never know whether that's true.

It likely isn't true though in some regards. I did end up making myself do some stuff- even though it was pretty excruciating. Maybe the more disappointing thing is- it wasn't necessarily worth the effort or discomfort always! So- there's that too. Even if we get what we wished for, it can bring it's own new set of problems.

 

[Penguin96]

There is always the possibility to value yourself and try to find inner peace. I have none of those benefits that you described but you can live without them. Im retired at 35 but still here I am trying to find inner peace. I go to church a lot and it helps. Try to find something that makes it better. Life is unfair and so it will keep on being, Im afraid.

 

[Sadbanana]

I think part of the issue is- I imagine a lot of people don't like being told they got those things on a platter- sex, respect, validation, sense of belonging and being useful. They can likely describe what they did in life to achieve those things.

They may have felt it wasn't a breeze for them. That they had to overcome great adversity to get some of those things. So- they may simply not have the patience towards someone who says all of those things are unavailable to them (if it seems as if they didn't try hard enough.) Whether that's true or not. Whether they had debilitating circumstances. It's hard to judge. We only know what it's like to live our life.

Maybe it's not quite so much they don't see the value in those things though. More that they don't all appear by magic. Certainly though, some people will have the greater advantage to be able to succeed.

But say- feeling useful. We can surely feel useful by taking action to be useful. Volunteer work, everyday kindness to others. Some stuff in life really does follow a cause and effect pattern.

Of course, where it can of course go horribly wrong is where we try everything and get nowhere. Can we say we've tried everything though? I know I can't.

It's difficult to deny what we really feel or want though. If we feel we'll only be happy if we experience that relationship or, get that job or whatever else and, it truly does seem like we won't- no matter how hard we try. Then, I'm not sure what we can do. Can we always lower our expectations to be more realistic? I'm not really sure.

That's been my experience though. If I whinged about not having a certain thing, the response would tend to be- what am I doing to achieve it? Which, is a fair response really.

It was sometimes because unwanted things- like social anxiety- were holding me back but then- I should have done more to overcome that if that other thing was so important to me.

I suppose talking to others I thought were effortlessly successful, I realised that they were willing to overcome some of the same fears I wasn't. I used to try to play the card that I was different. That I found things more difficult than other people but, maybe we'll never know whether that's true.

It likely isn't true though in some regards. I did end up making myself do some stuff- even though it was pretty excruciating. Maybe the more disappointing thing is- it wasn't necessarily worth the effort or discomfort always! So- there's that too. Even if we get what we wished for, it can bring it's own new set of problems.

The truth is a lot of people got these things on silver plater and they take them for granted. A lot of people saying that they had to work hard and overcome fears didn't have to do fraction of what you have already tried. This is not a thing that's unknowable, you can just observe people around you and see how much effort they are putting in.

I personally am asperger and have cptsd, so that's why these things areso hard for me. I don't know what makes it hard for you. But I tried super hard, harder than I should have. Now I realize that having to go through a humiliation ritual and extreme effort, facing my greatest fears just to be thrown a bone except for the actual meat was is not worth it.

 

[Forever Sleep]

The truth is a lot of people got these things on silver plater and they take them for granted. A lot of people saying that they had to work hard and overcome fears didn't have to do fraction of what you have already tried. This is not a thing that's unknowable, you can just observe people around you and see how much effort they are putting in.

I personally am asperger and have cptsd, so that's why these things areso hard for me. I don't know what makes it hard for you. But I tried super hard, harder than I should have. Now I realize that having to go through a humiliation ritual and extreme effort, facing my greatest fears just to be thrown a bone except for the actual meat was is not worth it.

I'm not sure you can always tell- just looking at someone. Plus, they may have had more support in some areas but, less in others. I just found out that by talking to others I assumed were breezing through- that they were just better at putting on an act, some of the time.

I suppose- the problem with suggesting other people are in a priveleged position tends to ignore/ belittle the efforts they likely did put in. So- they aren't really going to be enticed to feel sympathetic if they feel like they've just been belittled. I doubt everyone really likes to hear: 'It's ok for you' or, 'you're so lucky.'

But- it is very likely fair to say you could be genuinely struggling more than others. I suppose we have some naive hope that those who need more help in society will receive it but sadly, I don't think that's always the case.

I also relate in my own way that the efforts I did put in didn't yield results that were worth it. Maybe that's the bigger problem really. That the pain to possible pleasure ratio is likely very lop sided for people who struggle a lot in life- for whatever reason. Which does feel shit really. Can we ever be all that happy when everything is such a struggle?

 

[Sadbanana]

I'm not sure you can always tell- just looking at someone. Plus, they may have had more support in some areas but, less in others. I just found out that by talking to others I assumed were breezing through- that they were just better at putting on an act, some of the time.

I suppose- the problem with suggesting other people are in a priveleged position tends to ignore/ belittle the efforts they likely did put in. So- they aren't really going to be enticed to feel sympathetic if they feel like they've just been belittled. I doubt everyone really likes to hear: 'It's ok for you' or, 'you're so lucky.'

But- it is very likely fair to say you could be genuinely struggling more than others. I suppose we have some naive hope that those who need more help in society will receive it but sadly, I don't think that's always the case.

I also relate in my own way that the efforts I did put in didn't yield results that were worth it. Maybe that's the bigger problem really. That the pain to possible pleasure ratio is likely very lop sided for people who struggle a lot in life- for whatever reason. Which does feel shit really. Can we ever be all that happy when everything is such a struggle?

A agree that it's deffinitely not breeze for everyone and some people that were disadvantaged still managed to succeed working very hard.

But I would say the idea that everyone has to make the similar amount of effort to reach certain output is what a lot of struggling people default to, because it makes them easier to keep going. It's just easier when you believe that everyone had to overcome this.

But this way of thinking makes you idealize those that did nothing as mentors, and listening to their advice even if it's useless. There is a reason why the most talented artists are the best teachers, because the less talented one's had to come up with alternatives aproaches to make up for their limitations.

Believing that everyone works as hard as you us putting yourself down and devaluing your own effort, for the sake of avoiding the soulcrushing reality. Some were ment to have it since their birth, you were not, that's why you have to go through so much shit just to get a taste of what it's like.

I don't always know exactly which ones have it difficult. But I can look at friends for which finding a girlfriend just happens naturally to them. I had a friend with 170 iq who was easilily going through school. In these examples it is obvious. But I can say average neurotipical person is basically living on easy mode compared to me.

 

[Forever Sleep]

A agree that it's deffinitely not breeze for everyone and some people that were disadvantaged still managed to succeed working very hard.

But I would say the idea that everyone has to make the similar amount of effort to reach certain output is what a lot of struggling people default to, because it makes them easier to keep going. It's just easier when you believe that everyone had to overcome this.

But this way of thinking makes you idealize those that did nothing as mentors, and listening to their advice even if it's useless. There is a reason why the most talented artists are the best teachers, because the less talented one's had to come up with alternatives aproaches to make up for their limitations.

Believing that everyone works as hard as you us putting yourself down and devaluing your own effort, for the sake of avoiding the soulcrushing reality. Some were ment to have it since their birth, you were not, that's why you have to go through so much shit just to get a taste of what it's like.

I don't always know exactly which ones have it difficult. But I can look at friends for which finding a girlfriend just happens naturally to them. I had a friend with 170 iq who was easilily going through school. In these examples it is obvious. But I can say average neurotipical person is basically living on easy mode compared to me.

Yes- I think you're right. We are taught that life is hard and everyone struggles and, that's just the reality of it. I suppose to have it hinted at that it's so much harder for some people- through no fault of their own- could potentially make them resentful and angry from the start. Even though it can be true.

Plus I suppose- it reveals to a child early on that they are naturally inferior to others. Maybe it can go the other way though too. Someone being told they are extrordinary for the effort they're putting in- despite their setbacks could I guess, become narcissistic. In that they're special and better because of all the efforts they have made.

I'm not sure that the most talented do make the best teachers. I think that to struggle means that you can see it when other people are struggling and so- they feel more need to come up with other ways to explain things to their students. The most talented may not actually want to be teaching either. It could be they'd prefer to be practising in their subject rather than teaching it.

Teaching in itself is an art/ skill all of its own I believe. Just because someone is a genius in a particular subject, doesn't mean they will necessarily be good at teaching it to others. I imagine teaching well requires a lot of patience and understanding. Something someone who finds a subject naturally easy may not be sympathetic enough to have/ give.

I suppose the 'danger' with deciding we have it far too difficult is that we may just give up. That seems to make the most sense but then- will that help us? To not try at all?

A friend of mine has so much envy towards someone who was in a different year to us at uni. They basically were born into the industry we both wanted/ want to work in. Their parents worked in it. They began being involved in it from a very young age. Basically- the door was open to them from the start. But then it's like- sure- they were lucky. Does that mean you should just not even try though? How will that help? You'll absolutely need to work harder than them. You won't get the same opportunities but- you definitely won't succeed at all if you don't try.

I guess that's what it comes down to. Do we try with whatever we have or, not bother, because we will have to work (sometimes much) harder than others?

The sad reality of it though is- a company may not care how hard you have to try to achieve just a basic level though because ultimately, we are all in competition. I do understand the frustration there.

Regarding getting a partner. Sure- some people again, will likely have it easier than others. Obviously, natural good looks are going to give a person an edge. They often have to work hard to maintain them though. It's not solely beautiful people in relationships though. But again- I think it takes a lot of risk to try and find someone. Part of the reason I haven't- alongside being ugly is that I don't want to experience rejection. So, I think it also depends on how much we are prepared to risk. How many opportunities we are giving ourselves. I think that does come down to it too.