Venting talent

[overmorrow]

I feel like, most hobbies or such, are mainly something purely genetic, and not hard work.

even drawing, aiming, writing, singing, and in general almost every hobby, requires you to have a good growth/childhood to actually be above average at

am i just coping, or some of you also think this is true?

I've been drawing for a while, and im not going to say I'm terrible, but I'm also really...not that good, and it feels like I'm limited due to my brain, not even my actual skills.

 

[WhatCouldHaveBeen32]

Not really, look. If you have the will, advanced mathematics, drawing, music, chemistry, physics CAN BE DONE.

BUT YOU REALLY REALLY NEED TO WANT TO DO IT. Like really WANT to, like get dopamine from it and want to do it.

Most people who are on this forum are most likely out of that possibility, we are not really normal people. Normal people don't think about suicide once in their life if even.

You can be above average like this but you need to commit for 3-4 years and actively want to improve. Like body building/dieting/cooking...

It's just unfortunate but that's how it is, I gave up since I get no satisfaction from anything. (besides games which you know, are done since I was a kid like you said.)

Depressed good artists on this forum can literally tell you that the same way I don't like gaming anymore, they also don't like like art but it's their auto pilot activity.

It's not like it will be making you less depressed or less suicidal, you'll just have another thing to auto pilot, that's it :/

 

[overmorrow]

Not really, look. If you have the will, advanced mathematics, drawing, music, chemistry, physics CAN BE DONE.

BUT YOU REALLY REALLY NEED TO WANT TO DO IT. Like really WANT to, like get dopamine from it and want to do it.

Most people who are on this forum are most likely out of that possibility, we are not really normal people. Normal people don't think about suicide once in their life if even.

You can be above average like this but you need to commit for 3-4 years and actively want to improve. Like body building/dieting/cooking...

It's just unfortunate but that's how it is, I gave up since I get no satisfaction from anything. (besides games which you know, are done since I was a kid like you said.)

Depressed good artists on this forum can literally tell you that the same way I don't like gaming anymore, they also don't like like art but it's their auto pilot activity.

It's not like it will be making you less depressed or less suicidal, you'll just have another thing to auto pilot, that's it :/

yes, but that auto pilot, is also a good distraction, thinking of suicide every 30 minutes isn't nice, even if that small amount increases to 35, id still be grateful, if it makes sense

 

[WhatCouldHaveBeen32]

yes, but that auto pilot, is also a good distraction, thinking of suicide every 30 minutes isn't nice, even if that small amount increases to 35, id still be grateful, if it makes sense

It does help, guess why I'm here, I'm not on auto pilot doing anything so I start ruminating. Cooking's novelty wore off, work outs novelty wore off, drawing's novelty wore off years ago. The only thing that I didn't do yet is drugs, but I don't want to live a lie more than I already do if that makes sense, lol. But I know people who chose drugs for the moment so that they stave off suicide.

 

[bunnƴ]

yes everything is genetic users here being suicidal probably has some relation with genetics

 

[Forever Sleep]

I do think it really helps to have some ability/ talent first. Even within a single subject, there are specific niches. I'd say I'm lucky to have an overall flair in the (visual) arts but, there are still plenty of aspects I struggle with. I would definitely notice at college and work that some people just seemed to have a natural sense of what they needed to do in order to achieve the desired result. I'd try to mimic what I thought they were doing and end with a mess.

I just think we must have brains that think more effortlessly in certain ways. A friend of mine had an incredible aptitude for maths. We went to a taster session at a college and it literally sounded like Japanese to me (which I can't speak.) There wasn't a single thing in it I understood! She just sat there nodding.

That's not to say they don't still have to work hard at it. I just think it's more that they get more than crumbs back for their efforts though. So- when they give their all, they probably do feel more like they are making progress. Whereas, there are certain things I've done where I've tried so many different things to make my brain understand what we need to do and, it just keeps struggling.

The bigger problem is- when something is such an unpleasant struggle. When the process itself is unpleasant. Then, we are deeply disappointed with the result- I think it just puts us off trying all together! I think there has to be at least some enjoyment there. Maybe we can get over the likelihood we won't create or achieve something amazing but, if we don't really enjoy the process either, what's the point in keep forcing ourselves?

 

[overmorrow]

I do think it really helps to have some ability/ talent first. Even within a single subject, there are specific niches. I'd say I'm lucky to have an overall flair in the (visual) arts but, there are still plenty of aspects I struggle with. I would definitely notice at college and work that some people just seemed to have a natural sense of what they needed to do in order to achieve the desired result. I'd try to mimic what I thought they were doing and end with a mess.

I just think we must have brains that think more effortlessly in certain ways. A friend of mine had an incredible aptitude for maths. We went to a taster session at a college and it literally sounded like Japanese to me (which I can't speak.) There wasn't a single thing in it I understood! She just sat there nodding.

That's not to say they don't still have to work hard at it. I just think it's more that they get more than crumbs back for their efforts though. So- when they give their all, they probably do feel more like they are making progress. Whereas, there are certain things I've done where I've tried so many different things to make my brain understand what we need to do and, it just keeps struggling.

The bigger problem is- when something is such an unpleasant struggle. When the process itself is unpleasant. Then, we are deeply disappointed with the result- I think it just puts us off trying all together! I think there has to be at least some enjoyment there. Maybe we can get over the likelihood we won't create or achieve something amazing but, if we don't really enjoy the process either, what's the point in keep forcing ourselves?

yes exactly, maybe I've worded it the wrong way, maybe talent isn't the ability to be good at something, but the ability to learn it, much much faster, than another person with less capabilities.

you've explained it perfectly!!

I think of this, I've been drawing for around 1-2 years now, and I'm okayish, but what's the point, if then there's a random kid, that in 6 months, gets to my level, twice as fast? that's what im trying to, explain :<

 

[Gangrel]

Not really, look. If you have the will, advanced mathematics, drawing, music, chemistry, physics CAN BE DONE.

BUT YOU REALLY REALLY NEED TO WANT TO DO IT. Like really WANT to, like get dopamine from it and want to do it.

Most people who are on this forum are most likely out of that possibility, we are not really normal people. Normal people don't think about suicide once in their life if even.

You can be above average like this but you need to commit for 3-4 years and actively want to improve. Like body building/dieting/cooking...

It's just unfortunate but that's how it is, I gave up since I get no satisfaction from anything. (besides games which you know, are done since I was a kid like you said.)

Depressed good artists on this forum can literally tell you that the same way I don't like gaming anymore, they also don't like like art but it's their auto pilot activity.

It's not like it will be making you less depressed or less suicidal, you'll just have another thing to auto pilot, that's it :/

that's exactly what i think too, i get nothing from doing things, barely even games nowdays, what chances would i get from doing math daily, probably would kill myself with the pen if i tried

 

[Forveleth]

I feel like, most hobbies or such, are mainly something purely genetic, and not hard work.

This s is the complete opposite of the truth. While natural abilities can give an advantage at first, what matters is dedication and time.

even drawing, aiming, writing, singing, and in general almost every hobby, requires you to have a good growth/childhood to actually be above average at

Having access to money may guarantee better teacher or tools but, again, those can be overcome with time and dedication.

am i just coping,

Yes

I've been drawing for a while, and im not going to say I'm terrible, but I'm also really...not that good, and it feels like I'm limited due to my brain, not even my actual skills.

How much time do you put into drawing? Do you do it consistently? Have you read books on drawing? Do you push yourself yo try new techniques, styles, and subjects?

 

[Forever Sleep]

yes exactly, maybe I've worded it the wrong way, maybe talent isn't the ability to be good at something, but the ability to learn it, much much faster, than another person with less capabilities.

you've explained it perfectly!!

I think of this, I've been drawing for around 1-2 years now, and I'm okayish, but what's the point, if then there's a random kid, that in 6 months, gets to my level, twice as fast? that's what im trying to, explain :<

I think you said it more succintly than I did. The ability to learn- definitely. I suppose aptitude is the word. A natural tendency to grasp something.

Do you enjoy drawing? Do you like the process of doing it or, are you very fixated on the end result not being good enough? I did study drawing as part of my art courses. Our teachers used to really impress on us- don't get fixated on trying to produce something good. They would follow that up by discouraging us from rubbing out our mistakes. I remember erasers being banned for a while.

It always seemed kind of confusing to me. I think the aim was for us to be creating something accurate. But then, surely it would be good if it was accurate! Anyway- I wasn't good at all! Which is kind of sad really because it was/ is that paranoia of not being good that makes me dread doing it now. Especially seeing as art is my thing- I should be good at it! I always enjoyed it as a child but then, I think that's because the bar is pretty low then. I was considered good back then.

With art though- I think there are multiple reasons we do it. For ourselves. We may just enjoy the process. To achieve a certain thing- which is frustrating for lots of artists. What we have in our head as oppossed to what we produced. To impress others.

But then, we aren't always impressed by the most technically skilled artists. That's the beauty of art- to my mind. We can admire so many different qualities. We may even like a certain style for its naivity. I guess it depends on what you feel excited by. I think it was Paul Klee who alluded to 'taking a line for a walk'. So a more abstract approach to not really trying to represent anything. Just enjoying the process of making a mark on a page.

Have you tried methods to make it less daunting? I used to be a big fan of staining paper with tea. The glaring white page can be daunting. Maybe you could try different mediums- pastels, paint, collage. So- you may start to like at least elements of something you did.

We did all sorts of exercises at college though. Not even looking at the page. Focusing intently on the object and drawing at the same time- I used to enjoy that. Drawing the negative space. Having to do very fast drawings. There's a bunch of things you could try to feel less precious and less pressured about it.

Really though- unless we're genius level- most of us will sit somewhere in the middle. There will be people better and worse than us. At certain things too. I pursued a creative career and was green with envy at some people's work. Sometimes it's best to just focus on you though. Ultimately, I still think it's worth pusuing if it gives you something. Plus, no matter how good or bad we are, I tend to find creative people feel like there's something missing when they don't create.

I suppose it depends on what we're doing it for though. Plus, what we'll settle for. It would drive me mad if I had the same burning ambition to be as good as others. I've partly lost that. Plus, practically speaking- in terms of doing a job in it, all sorts of other constraints come in to play. Time, budget, the brief itself. I suppose I had to learn to try to still achieve what I could with those restraints but, still let things go.

Plus- it's a learning curve too I think- forever pretty much. We're always learning through doing.

 

[overmorrow]

I think you said it more succintly than I did. The ability to learn- definitely. I suppose aptitude is the word. A natural tendency to grasp something.

Do you enjoy drawing? Do you like the process of doing it or, are you very fixated on the end result not being good enough? I did study drawing as part of my art courses. Our teachers used to really impress on us- don't get fixated on trying to produce something good. They would follow that up by discouraging us from rubbing out our mistakes. I remember erasers being banned for a while.

It always seemed kind of confusing to me. I think the aim was for us to be creating something accurate. But then, surely it would be good if it was accurate! Anyway- I wasn't good at all! Which is kind of sad really because it was/ is that paranoia of not being good that makes me dread doing it now. Especially seeing as art is my thing- I should be good at it! I always enjoyed it as a child but then, I think that's because the bar is pretty low then. I was considered good back then.

With art though- I think there are multiple reasons we do it. For ourselves. We may just enjoy the process. To achieve a certain thing- which is frustrating for lots of artists. What we have in our head as oppossed to what we produced. To impress others.

But then, we aren't always impressed by the most technically skilled artists. That's the beauty of art- to my mind. We can admire so many different qualities. We may even like a certain style for its naivity. I guess it depends on what you feel excited by. I think it was Paul Klee who alluded to 'taking a line for a walk'. So a more abstract approach to not really trying to represent anything. Just enjoying the process of making a mark on a page.

Have you tried methods to make it less daunting? I used to be a big fan of staining paper with tea. The glaring white page can be daunting. Maybe you could try different mediums- pastels, paint, collage. So- you may start to like at least elements of something you did.

We did all sorts of exercises at college though. Not even looking at the page. Focusing intently on the object and drawing at the same time- I used to enjoy that. Drawing the negative space. Having to do very fast drawings. There's a bunch of things you could try to feel less precious and less pressured about it.

Really though- unless we're genius level- most of us will sit somewhere in the middle. There will be people better and worse than us. At certain things too. I pursued a creative career and was green with envy at some people's work. Sometimes it's best to just focus on you though. Ultimately, I still think it's worth pusuing if it gives you something. Plus, no matter how good or bad we are, I tend to find creative people feel like there's something missing when they don't create.

I suppose it depends on what we're doing it for though. Plus, what we'll settle for. It would drive me mad if I had the same burning ambition to be as good as others. I've partly lost that. Plus, practically speaking- in terms of doing a job in it, all sorts of other constraints come in to play. Time, budget, the brief itself. I suppose I had to learn to try to still achieve what I could with those restraints but, still let things go.

Plus- it's a learning curve too I think- forever pretty much. We're always learning through doing.

yes, I enjoy drawing, i don't care about the end result, I care a lot about how it looks, though, or even following a method properly, I'll give you an example

a portrait, i don't want it to be perfect, but i want to look at it, even if i mostly only sketch, I want to look at it and be, satisfied, I've made something nice following my style or method, and that fullfils me a lot

I don't care about mistakes, or fucking something up, if anything, if i have to draw a circle, 100 times a day, until it's perfect, and will help me in drawing, i am going to do that, but if it doesn't help, i don't see a point, so I'm just sort of stuck, making me contemplate if i can ever really get better.

so my struggle really starts in the sketch itself, I want to look at a sketch, fast draw, and be, satisfied, happy that if i get more focused, it can even be an impressive drawing.

some people haven't studied a bit of anatomy, or guidelines, or simple forms, yet they seem to just be...so good at it, some draw from their imagination and im so ashamed of being jealous, instead of happy, of that

 

[Forever Sleep]

yes, I enjoy drawing, i don't care about the end result, I care a lot about how it looks, though, or even following a method properly, I'll give you an example

a portrait, i don't want it to be perfect, but i want to look at it, even if i mostly only sketch, I want to look at it and be, satisfied, I've made something nice following my style or method, and that fullfils me a lot

I don't care about mistakes, or fucking something up, if anything, if i have to draw a circle, 100 times a day, until it's perfect, and will help me in drawing, i am going to do that, but if it doesn't help, i don't see a point, so I'm just sort of stuck, making me contemplate if i can ever really get better.

so my struggle really starts in the sketch itself, I want to look at a sketch, fast draw, and be, satisfied, happy that if i get more focused, it can even be an impressive drawing.

some people haven't studied a bit of anatomy, or guidelines, or simple forms, yet they seem to just be...so good at it, some draw from their imagination and im so ashamed of being jealous, instead of happy, of that

Then, I definitely think you should continue. But, simultaneously accept that it won't be easy. When I told my Dad I wanted to focus on art as a career, he said: 'You're going to suffer'. He's arty too. So- it's just a kind of given. Partly, we kind of need to see the mistakes and suffer- so that we try to avoid them the next time. It's how we learn. That may not just be accuracy mistakes. Maybe we don't like the composition or weight of line we used etc.

I suspect we all look at other people's work with envy but- do you know how they felt about it? I know plenty of artists who feel disappointed with their work. Even if it looks amazing to me. So- they may be going through what we are- just at a more advanced level. They're likely looking up to people better than them thinking- how on earth did they do that?

Michaelangelo and his 'angel' in every piece of stone that he sets free. He did make it sound effortless! I doubt there would be anything but a pile if rubble if I attempted the same! I'm especially bad at sculpture. I'm not convinced so many people find it that easy though.

I think that's why I've always been better friends with arty people though. We understand the struggle and worry in one another. It looks crazy to other people to be so worried about something so insignificant.

 

[overmorrow]

t

Then, I definitely think you should continue. But, simultaneously accept that it won't be easy. When I told my Dad I wanted to focus on art as a career, he said: 'You're going to suffer'. He's arty too. So- it's just a kind of given. Partly, we kind of need to see the mistakes and suffer- so that we try to avoid them the next time. It's how we learn. That may not just be accuracy mistakes. Maybe we don't like the composition or weight of line we used etc.

I suspect we all look at other people's work with envy but- do you know how they felt about it? I know plenty of artists who feel disappointed with their work. Even if it looks amazing to me. So- they may be going through what we are- just at a more advanced level. They're likely looking up to people better than them thinking- how on earth did they do that?

Michaelangelo and his 'angel' in every piece of stone that he sets free. He did make it sound effortless! I doubt there would be anything but a pile if rubble if I attempted the same! I'm especially bad at sculpture. I'm not convinced so many people find it that easy though.

I think that's why I've always been better friends with arty people though. We understand the struggle and worry in one another. It looks crazy to other people to be so worried about something so insignificant.

thank you for the motivational words and insight, lyly :3

 

[InevitableDeath]

I feel like, most hobbies or such, are mainly something purely genetic, and not hard work. even drawing, aiming, writing, singing, and in general almost every hobby, requires you to have a good growth/childhood to actually be above average at

am i just coping, or some of you also think this is true?

I've been drawing for a while, and im not going to say I'm terrible, but I'm also really...not that good, and it feels like I'm limited due to my brain, not even my actual skills.

idk, the creative urge is the best thing about humanity imho. Without it I'd have been dead decades ago.

Creativity manifests in various forms - drawing, cookery, music, abstract painting, poetry, even sports.

There's also a difference between what you (the artist) is satisfied by and what others/society perceives as 'good'. Too much art now is only seen as 'good' if it makes money, or gets profile (towards making money). To measure humanity's creativity by humanity's greatest idiocy is... well... idiotic.

The essential part is how the artist perceives their own work. Their practice to achieve the work. And the work's intention.

Imho its sometimes possible to put a spiritual power into a work (aura?) - an energy which can be received by the viewer, listener, audience.

The forgotten dimension is time. Not necessarily the time it takes to create, but definitely the time it takes to consider, whether artist or audience.

The digital age is all about efficiency, less time, less consideration, which makes it all more superficial. That spiritual power struggles to exist.

Anyway, sorry for all the philosophy!

What I was going to say is....
You don't have to have any good childhood/growth to be creative. In fact, most really great artists, have had very difficult histories and MH issues.
Drawing is very difficult - you've picked a tough one. Its precise as well as artistic. Like sculpture.
Perhaps try creating in other mediums - painting, abstracts, poetry, things that are less demanding in their perfection. More expressive.
Playing music is easier than drawing. Many instruments can be rewarding very quickly. And they will grow with you. And never let you down.
I play music, and I'm not that good, but sometimes I am, it is a spiritual thing. And those times make it worth it.

And writing. And reading. You have to do those to be fully human. Live many lives not just one. I think you mentioned fantasy writers in a previous post. I know this is clliche, but George Martin can write. Nothing I've read by him has been bad. China Mieville Perdido St Station trilogy too is exceptional.

Whatever you do, just keep creating but, as a creative, don't limit yourself to one practice and get frustrated with it. Mix it up. Try some new directions.
Take care.

 

[overmorrow]

idk, the creative urge is the best thing about humanity imho. Without it I'd have been dead decades ago.

Creativity manifests in various forms - drawing, cookery, music, abstract painting, poetry, even sports.

There's also a difference between what you (the artist) is satisfied by and what others/society perceives as 'good'. Too much art now is only seen as 'good' if it makes money, or gets profile (towards making money). To measure humanity's creativity by humanity's greatest idiocy is... well... idiotic.

The essential part is how the artist perceives their own work. Their practice to achieve the work. And the work's intention.

Imho its sometimes possible to put a spiritual power into a work (aura?) - an energy which can be received by the viewer, listener, audience.

The forgotten dimension is time. Not necessarily the time it takes to create, but definitely the time it takes to consider, whether artist or audience.

The digital age is all about efficiency, less time, less consideration, which makes it all more superficial. That spiritual power struggles to exist.

Anyway, sorry for all the philosophy!

What I was going to say is....
You don't have to have any good childhood/growth to be creative. In fact, most really great artists, have had very difficult histories and MH issues.
Drawing is very difficult - you've picked a tough one. Its precise as well as artistic. Like sculpture.
Perhaps try creating in other mediums - painting, abstracts, poetry, things that are less demanding in their perfection. More expressive.
Playing music is easier than drawing. Many instruments can be rewarding very quickly. And they will grow with you. And never let you down.
I play music, and I'm not that good, but sometimes I am, it is a spiritual thing. And those times make it worth it.

And writing. And reading. You have to do those to be fully human. Live many lives not just one. I think you mentioned fantasy writers in a previous post. I know this is clliche, but George Martin can write. Nothing I've read by him has been bad. China Mieville Perdido St Station trilogy too is exceptional.

Whatever you do, just keep creating but, as a creative, don't limit yourself to one practice and get frustrated with it. Mix it up. Try some new directions.
Take care.

thank you for the advice, i appreciate it a lot

 

[InevitableDeath]

thank you for the advice, i appreciate it a lot

You are very welcome. I hope some of it helps. Took me years to learn!