Once upon a time... suicide discussion then and now

[XiaroX]

I am not sure if this is the right section for this, but I'll try to tie it together.

I recently went through detox (not in a hospital or rehab place, but at home, and it was fucking hell), and I am sober. I'm afraid to tell people about this or how long, etc, because I would feel guilty and uneasy if they were to offer words of encouragement or praise. Ever since I started drinking many moons ago, every time I've tried to get sober, my motivation is: so I can get it together well enough to carry out a suicide.

And bear in mind, I don't really like any methods at all, and I actually want medical assistance.

This place is kind of addictive, and there are many posts I want to respond to and I feel lame just leaving an emoji. Sometimes I leave hugs, because it seems the most appropriate, but in person, I have trouble being touched or hugged. A lot of the time, a post is really complicated, and I like that kind of thing, but I know I'm not together enough to give a reply a poster deserves. Also, almost everything is a trigger for me. Talking to people, phones, cameras everywhere, streaming services, reading - the list goes on. And sitting in a dark room bored is also a trigger. Anyway, it might be better for my sobriety and suicide chances to avoid this group, but I find it easy to keep reading post after post. I still don't really know my way around, but I have bookmarked threads - and it still seems like I have lost my way to certain things I saw.

I have been sure I wanted to die for more than 3 decades, and I know there are others here who have wanted death for a very long time. Does our suffering matter to the algorithms, or is it only important how many documented attempts or successful attempts occur? And will the data be analyzed such that resources, compassion and societal understanding will magically appear, and
world problems disappear? I'm not sure I have more faith in that than I do in how streaming services analyze data. (I fucking resent not being able to say why I like or don't like something.)

One thing that scares me is that more than 25 years ago, when I was first discussing these things online, even back then people were endlessly discussing methods and feeling worthless and useless, and not getting help they needed. Back then, it didn't even occur to me there could ever be better options. If you're mentally ill or life has fucked you in some way or you just do not like the world the way it is, or if you can recognize your patterns and know where they're going and you know how the world works and what changes are realistic or not in the near future, and know it's not just self-fulfilling prophecies, you must bite the bullet and choose something that horrifies you and might traumatize others, or you just might not have access to anything, and feel hopelessly stuck. It seems like most people still feel like it's their responsibility to take responsibility for their trauma. They have to apologize to everyone, and no one has to apologize to them.

If self-fulfilling prophecies are real, then why am I not dead yet? And if creative visualization works, and I imagined a good death over and over, why am I not dead yet? and I know that although I could define these attempts as having a positive attitude in impossible circumstances, other people will not agree with me. I was also open to my subconscious leading me to something that appealed to me.

There were a lot of flamewars back then, and I actually found that pretty stressful. Also, back then I was cutting (I haven't for a long time now), and I think sometimes I was seeking something for coming across as 'cool' or a kickass Suicide Girl archetype. When you're isolated and depressed, and someone gives you sexual validation, it can be something that's difficult to give up, even once you know it's not you. I'm not in that headspace anymore. I know I'm sad, broken, and I would not be able to see my suicide as a fuck you to the world.

I think also people were less likely to be open about things like mental health, unemployment, sexual dysfunction, and other topics people will tackle now. I see improvements here. And I also think it's good to have a recovery section, and also the new sections here - and I have a definite interest in discussing assisted death. But I still think some marginalized groups might have trouble communicating here.

But I kind of liked that in the past it was all about the words (no profile images), and that there wasn't the stress or competition of a rating system. (and I'm somewhat nostalgic, but I doubt anyone would call them the 'good old days'.) I know, evolve or die. Well, I choose death. Please help me. Help me help myself.

 

[Qilio3]

You've definitely chosen the wrong section of the forum, if you want effective help. As far as I understand, the people in this section are mostly those who have already given up, or are very close to it.



Personally, I have a rough idea of what could help you, me, or someone else. But it's just a rough idea. That's probably why I only visit this section of the forum.

 

[Forever Sleep]

That's an interesting question- do people really care about those suffering or, only the numbers of those who suicide? I think it tends to be the latter. I think because it's assumed that all people suffer and, we just have to get on with it.

Literally- 1 in 3 people in my friend's workplace was on antidepressants. These are people presumably healthy enough to work but, they've all been diagnosed with depression- to be on medication for it. I think it's almost worryingly normal to be expected to struggle. 'That's life'- as you'll hear people say.

Asides from a few obvious exceptions- when the disability is obvious, I think there's probably genuine confusion over just what is normal now. I even feel it, to be truthful. I definitely don't struggle as much as some people here but, I'm not sure all. But, I live a reasonably high functioning life. So- there's that whole thing of- is it that we truthfully can't do something- even just live or, is it that we find it difficult so, we won't? People find it less acceptable when we choose not to comply with the norm.

I doubt people would mind if you answered just briefly on threads- if you wanted to. I think most people are accomodating in as much- we probably understand that some days, we aren't up to replying in great detail and at length.

As for the help out there, I think there's a worrying assumption that everyone can be helped and the help will be effective. The police officers who did my welfare check following the whole IC SN investigation were surprised that I had talked to a therapist/ been on meds in the past. As in- so- why aren't you better? They were actually surprisingly kind to be honest. They even said I could ring them- which is so lovely but, a ridiculous waste of resources I'd say. I think there's maybe a disbelief that maybe no one can help and more- that we don't want their help necessarily.

 

[InevitableDeath]

Literally- 1 in 3 people in my friend's workplace was on antidepressants. These are people presumably healthy enough to work but, they've all been diagnosed with depression- to be on medication for it. I think it's almost worryingly normal to be expected to struggle. 'That's life'- as you'll hear people say.

Politicians want people like slaves/cattle...... subdued, passive, desperate, trapped. So we make the rich richer and never question anything.

You think all those people are wrong in the head? Or do you think their enforced circumstances and propaganda has fucked their thinking?

 

[Qilio3]

Politicians want people like slaves/cattle...... subdued, passive, desperate, trapped. So we make the rich richer and never question anything.

You think all those people are wrong in the head? Or do you think their enforced circumstances and propaganda has fucked their thinking?

A bit off-topic.

Spoiler: Spoiler

Today I came across an AI-generated photograph that's pleasing to the eye and mind, because it seems to remove a very complex layer of politics from our lives.

Spoiler: Image

 

[XiaroX]

You've definitely chosen the wrong section of the forum, if you want effective help. As far as I understand, the people in this section are mostly those who have already given up, or are very close to it.



Personally, I have a rough idea of what could help you, me, or someone else. But it's just a rough idea. That's probably why I only visit this section of the forum.

I think I might have confused things. I meant I wanted help in dying. I've been sure a long time. The section regarding assisted death for psychological issues and other issues doesn't seem to be here now, but when I wrote this post, I think this post was a rant, and I wanted to show another angle of suicide discussion. I supported the recovery section not because I think I can recover, but because I support those who want to try.

People who have been around a long time, have spent years discussing suicide methods and reading and researching - some still aren't dead. They need a different kind of help, but it doesn't mean they haven't given up on life. It just means they are horrifically stuck, like in a horror movie...

I do want to respect the rules here, but at times for me the lines are blurred and I don't like the segregation.

I respect all the effort people have put into researching and writing about methods. My agenda is to expand options, such that people also have sanctioned medical options. Mental illness is illness. It would seem horrifically cruel to say to someone with Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, Motor Neuron, terminal cancer - you knew your diagnosis, why didn't you do something sooner?

I think if people here saw the state of my life, they'd know how far gone I am, but I would not be recognized as being as deserving as people with the conditions I listed. I want to challenge people's thinking, and I realize most people aren't ready for it. I don't want to cause tension in the group, and I will probably quietly go away. I have been advocating on my own for a very long time - 25 years - but no one takes me seriously. I am trapped in my body and in my life.

For 'suicide discussion', isn't it at least somewhat relevant to discuss how it was discussed online 25+ years ago as compared to now?

Also, while I'm here, I want to apologize to anyone who felt anxiety when I spoke about how then and now so many people still feel useless and worthless. I feel that way, too, and have actually been told that I am, in various different ways, by almost everyone I encounter. I'm tired of beating myself up. I know how hard I've tried, and I can guess how hard others have tried. I want to stand up for them, too, and ask them to treat and think of themselves more kindly and not let internalized societal and family judgments add to their burdens. And when I try to advocate for myself and others who want more end of life options, for psychological illnesses, and other conditions that as of yet do not qualify for euthanasia, people treat me like I'm saying nothing. This is pretty much the only place I thought I had a hope of getting different feedback.

[edit: yes, I know that last paragraph is off-topic, but I don't know if I can break up my original post and effectively send it off to all proper sections.]

 

[Qilio3]

I think I might have confused things. I meant I wanted help in dying. I've been sure a long time. The section regarding assisted death for psychological issues and other issues doesn't seem to be here now, but when I wrote this post, I think this post was a rant, and I wanted to show another angle of suicide discussion. I supported the recovery section not because I think I can recover, but because I support those who want to try.

People who have been around a long time, have spent years discussing suicide methods and reading and researching - some still aren't dead. They need a different kind of help, but it doesn't mean they haven't given up on life. It just means they are horrifically stuck, like in a horror movie...

I do want to respect the rules here, but at times for me the lines are blurred and I don't like the segregation.

I respect all the effort people have put into researching and writing about methods. My agenda is to expand options, such that people also have sanctioned medical options. Mental illness is illness. It would seem horrifically cruel to say to someone with Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, Motor Neuron, terminal cancer - you knew your diagnosis, why didn't you do something sooner?

I think if people here saw the state of my life, they'd know how far gone I am, but I would not be recognized as being as deserving as people with the conditions I listed. I want to challenge people's thinking, and I realize most people aren't ready for it. I don't want to cause tension in the group, and I will probably quietly go away. I have been advocating on my own for a very long time - 25 years - but no one takes me seriously. I am trapped in my body and in my life.

For 'suicide discussion', isn't it at least somewhat relevant to discuss how it was discussed online 25+ years ago as compared to now?

Also, while I'm here, I want to apologize to anyone who felt anxiety when I spoke about how then and now so many people still feel useless and worthless. I feel that way, too, and have actually been told that I am, in various different ways, by almost everyone I encounter. I'm tired of beating myself up. I know how hard I've tried, and I can guess how hard others have tried. I want to stand up for them, too, and ask them to treat and think of themselves more kindly and not let internalized societal and family judgments add to their burdens. And when I try to advocate for myself and others who want more end of life options, for psychological illnesses, and other conditions that as of yet do not qualify for euthanasia, people treat me like I'm saying nothing. This is pretty much the only place I thought I had a hope of getting different feedback.

[edit: yes, I know that last paragraph is off-topic, but I don't know if I can break up my original post and effectively send it off to all proper sections.]

We are all in the same boat on this forum, no matter what you come to, my support is with you.

 

[InevitableDeath]

Assisted dying will become more and more available as it saves money on welfare. Much like female employment equality made money for robber barons, they didn't care about feminism, they just wanted double the slave labour. Thats why the suffragettes are still lauded.

What the assisted dying options? about 30-50k dignitas, 20k pegasos, other countries bringing it in but only for terminal illnesses. If you're 50+ they're available, and hospices used to assisted die patients the old way with a morphine overdose, that was accepted.

But its doubtful there'll be much more beyond that as politicians are A fucking liars B don't care about people and C don't want people leaving the plantation by choice.

Any excess people are far more easily culled by austerity, genocide, war. That's how they work,

We've all got to DIY.

 

[XiaroX]

Politicians want people like slaves/cattle...... subdued, passive, desperate, trapped. So we make the rich richer and never question anything.

You think all those people are wrong in the head? Or do you think their enforced circumstances and propaganda has fucked their thinking?

People who are subdued, passive, desperate, trapped are not free to make an authentic choice.

 

[InevitableDeath]

People who are subdued, passive, desperate, trapped are not free to make an authentic choice.

that was in relation to a third of people being on antidepressants. And yes, no authentic choice. That's by design

 

[Mamihlapinatapei]

I sometimes wonder... if assisted dying was globally supported and socially accepted... How much would it solve the worlds overpopulation?

And what is this 'free world' we're talking about where you're not even allowed to get help with dying.