Discussion Is God universal or local? Is the Bible/Quran proof? Is there a true God?

[CaptainSunshine!]

Is it all just a matter of being born in one area, and thus believing in the "correct" God?

My mother is a Jehovah's Witness and she believes that all the other Gods are fake. She believes her religion's interpretation of the Bible is the correct one.
This mindset really puzzles me. Personally, I don't fully believe in anything. Perhaps I'm an agnostic, but this world does feel pretty Godless.
My mother tells me that the Bible is the proof of God's existence, but doesn't this line of logic say that Allah is the true God then? I know this is gonna sound stupid, but I haven't read the Bible nor the Quran. My mother tells me that I'll understand if I read it, but to me it looks like she hopes I'll understand. I won't read the Bible in a religious way, but a critical way. If I read it this way, I'll be told I read the Bible wrong. But I think I'll always read the Bible wrong unless I convert.
Therefore, this looks to me like a waste of time.

All Gods are omnipotent and all-good, so maybe they're all worshipping the same God? Though this may be a heretical question.

Is the Bible or Quran really proof of God? They are written by people, and people are snakes. They will warp the truth to their benefit. How can you believe the writers' ideas came from God? Do you just not question them? Is this what religion is about?

Am I just too cynical and stupid to believe in God?
From what I've pondered, the truest God can only come from within and internal communication. It would require the acceptance of existences of other Gods.
It makes sense to me, though this may be more spirituality than religion, and spirituality is looked down upon. I could only think of myself as a fool if I believed blindly the words of an organization, whatever it may be.

There's one quote or belief that it's safer to believe in God than not, for eternal punishment is not worth it. But a core issue to this is the amount of Gods present.
There are so many. How does one even choose?

Perhaps every God is a powerful, but not omnipotent deity, like in pantheons? This could explain the suffering and conflict. Why would God allow suffering to exist, why wait for something, when he can just do it instantly and now? Why not prevent suffering in the first place, as God knew it would happen?
Is the answer to this, "God works in mysterious ways"?

 

[Dejected 55]

Speaking of the Judeo-Christian religions... which includes Judaism, Christianity, and Islam... all of them are worshiping the same God. They just each have their own interpretation and things they agree and disagree with each other.

Then there are some other religions that either have a different God/Gods OR no official "God" at all but rather just general spiritualism.

But documents written by man (the bible, quran, etc.) are not at all "proof" of anything. Even if they turn out to be 100% true... they aren't proof in and of themselves because man can create anything and convince others to believe it. We still see how easily people are duped today, and a thousand plus years ago it was a lot easier to dupe people because of the lack of general information about the world and inability to easily communicate across regions.

 

[CaptainSunshine!]

Speaking of the Judeo-Christian religions... which includes Judaism, Christianity, and Islam... all of them are worshiping the same God. They just each have their own interpretation and things they agree and disagree with each other.

Then there are some other religions that either have a different God/Gods OR no official "God" at all but rather just general spiritualism.

But documents written by man (the bible, quran, etc.) are not at all "proof" of anything. Even if they turn out to be 100% true... they aren't proof in and of themselves because man can create anything and convince others to believe it. We still see how easily people are duped today, and a thousand plus years ago it was a lot easier to dupe people because of the lack of general information about the world and inability to easily communicate across regions.

Yes, it does seem to be a case of tradition.
I've been told that the Bible must be the truth and proof since it contains a lot of modern info, like hygiene. When I heard that I just explained it from the view of human intelligence. People can learn what's good or bad by looking at the ill-looking and dead.
Doesn't matter if it was thousands of years old. People in the past were also intelligent.

 

[LostZombie]

All Gods are omnipotent and all-good, so maybe they're all worshipping the same God? Though this may be a heretical question.

If god is all good they cannot be all powerful, just take a look at all the starving people dying from hunger. It's that or they are not all powerful, and are unable to give the bread to those starving.

Perhaps every God is a powerful, but not omnipotent deity, like in pantheons? This could explain the suffering and conflict. Why would God allow suffering to exist, why wait for something, when he can just do it instantly and now? Why not prevent suffering in the first place, as God knew it would happen?
Is the answer to this, "God works in mysterious ways"?

If god is real, they created suffering, hell, greed, hate, and everything bad that will ever happen. God created a very bad product that we seek to escape, I do not see that as a all powerful being. It sounds like a story made by humans, for humans. When we realized that we realized were not special creatures, but we are just a thing, without reason to be.

Or as Friedrich Nietzsche once said
"God is dead. God remains dead. And we have killed him. How shall we comfort ourselves, the murderers of all murderers? What was holiest and mightiest of all that the world has yet owned has bled to death under our knives: who will wipe this blood off us? What water is there for us to clean ourselves?"

 

[Forever Sleep]

The bigger issue I have is if a person can get into trouble for believing in the 'wrong' God or- a 'false' God. I doubt many religions are fond of sharing their followers with other faiths. Even in the old testament, there is the command: "Thou shalt have no other gods before me". So- the Abrahamic God effectively replaced all the previous pagan beliefs.

But- if that's the case and like you say- the chances of a person following the predominant religion of their location are high- what are we supposed to make of that? That God has thrown those people who happen to have been raised in the 'wrong' faith under the bus from the start.

There are estimated to be over 10,000 religions in the world. If only one answer/ God is the correct one and you can be punished for getting it wrong- why isn't there more clarity?

If there even is a God- why don't they do something to clear up all the confusion? Why is blind faith and adoration so important to them anyway? Wouldn't they prefer us to use the minds they created for us?

I personally hope there's no God. If there truly is an intention behind some of the messed up shit that exists in this world- I don't want to meet or be under the leadership of whoever came up with it.

 

[CaptainSunshine!]

If god is all good they cannot be all powerful, just take a look at all the starving people dying from hunger. It's that or they are not all powerful, and are unable to give the bread to those starving.



If god is real, they created suffering, hell, greed, hate, and everything bad that will ever happen. God created a very bad product that we seek to escape, I do not see that as a all powerful being. It sounds like a story made by humans, for humans. When we realized that we realized were not special creatures, but we are just a thing, without reason to be.

Or as Friedrich Nietzsche once said
"God is dead. God remains dead. And we have killed him. How shall we comfort ourselves, the murderers of all murderers? What was holiest and mightiest of all that the world has yet owned has bled to death under our knives: who will wipe this blood off us? What water is there for us to clean ourselves?"

Yes, indeed. I do "joke" that God is actually a sadist dictator. Who wants to worship a narcissist that will punish you for eternity when not licking his feet?

 

[sheeplit]

Popular conceptions of god are egocentric, even arrogant. It often begins with the presumption that we humans are somehow special to it, or that it has such human-like qualities or concepts, or that it cares about anything relating to goodness, or that it even cares about anything at all. God in the popular definition seems to me nothing more than a collective human fantasy. God, to me, exists only in concept as a reflection of our own inadequacies and inability to contend with uncertainty.

 

[NutOrat]

I know I've been rambling about Elden Ring too much recently, but I find its interpretation of the god that created everything to be very interesting. Basically the Greater Will is the closest to the all powerful god of creation that there is in ER. It created order in the world, where before everything was just the One Great.

Spoiler: for Shadow of the Erdtree

In the DLC we find out that Metyr, who is like the main ambassador/wifi router of the Greater Will on this world hasn't received any orders or communication whatsoever from GW in a very long time.

If god that created our world does exists, what if they were present at some point, during creation, and maybe a while after, trying to perfect it but unable to, and just left? Like an artist who made this beautiful in some parts but ugly in many others piece, couldn't fix it or just couldn't bother, and said "fuck it, my next one will be better", and left this painting alone. Of course that too makes it impossible for them to be both benevolent and omnipotent. Maybe they genuinely tried and couldn't make it better, or maybe they were never benevolent to begin with.

Maybe they're dead, or expanded all their powers during creation like the gods in Elder Scrolls, and are now just forced to helplessly watch what's going on in the world for eternity, unable to interfere. Maybe they killed themselves, for the guilt of what they've done was unbearable. Now that's a fun theory :D

Also in Elden Ring and Demons Souls it's a common theme that the church and the mages both kinda take their power from the same source. Like the Primordial Current and the Greater Will are very likely one and the same, or something like that, similar to different religions just praying to the same god differently. I'm not religious, but I really want to have someone or something to blame for this existence, though I'd never want to pray for such a being.