Is empathy a genuine gesture?

[mjolnir]

Empathy, in many cases, ceases to be a genuine gesture and becomes a limited strategy—a means of connecting with others only insofar as it brings some benefit. Although empathy is often seen as an act of understanding and solidarity, it can also subtly be a way of obtaining something in return: be it validation, status, or even a sense of moral superiority. In this sense, it's not that empathy is false, but it is conditioned by practical limits, by the interests that shape our relationships. True empathy, selfless and without expectation of gain, seems to be a rarity, a distant ideal.

 

[endlesstranquility]

True empathy, selfless and without expectation of gain, while occurring in nature, it's still more than extraordinary, and without proper defense, will be deplated from the person holding it. But fabricated, superficial empathy? That's might be the disease plaguing our society more than ever. Fake kindness, understanding are all over the place, especially in competitive environments. These are means for an end, for the evil people using those tools.

 

[NutOrat]

True empathy, selfless and without expectation of gain, seems to be a rarity, a distant ideal.

Or rather a completely unrealistic ideal that just never happens in reality. Even the most "selfless" kind of empathy is derived from the social animal instinct of "this might benefit me or my tribe later, someone will be thankful, and thus, maybe, will give back in kind". Also taking care of those from your tribe/allies increases your own chances of survival, or survival of your family (thus, your genes). In the end not a single social action is purely 100% altruistic, subconsciously.

Wanted to add: even just being altruistic for the sake of feeling good about yourself, feeling like you're a kind person, proving to yourself you're not selfish, is, ironically, selfish. That's not to say I condemn any of it, in fact, knowing that every action is selfish in some sense, makes it easier for me to empathise with others, and even myself.

 

[Chemi]

I think you're right that empathy can sometimes become a more limited, almost strategic gesture, ruled by self-interest, social rewards, or a bit of quiet ego boost and protection. People often offer empathy only as far as it feels safe or beneficial to them, and that can make it feel shallow at times for some.
But I don't think that's the whole story. Empathy can also be something really soft and beautiful. Like those moments where someone genuinely listens, understands, and cares without expecting anything in return. Even if those moments are rare, they're real. And they can mean more than we realize. They mean the world to me. They remind us that people can choose to show up for each other in sincere, gentle ways. In my mind, empathy is the most common representation of the beauty that is love. But I'm a big romantic, so idk. I think we should try not to see everything as an exchange. It just feels really nice for humans to help and comfort each other. We don't always have to deeply analyse why that is

 

[NormallyNeurotic]

I think the issue here is that, for the most part, you are confusing empathy with compassion. Compassion is something you can show someone, whether for your benefit or theirs. Empathy is a feeling, an understanding. It doesn't automatically come with the actions attached, unfortunately.

I lack emotional empathy, but I have sat with people I truly love and allowed them to confide in me, showing compassion with my words and actions even if I do not feel their feelings or even understand some of them.

 

[FadingSnowFake]

And I believe to be able to truly empathise with someone who is depressed and/or suicidal, if you have not been there yourself, is not possible. One can try to understand, one can truly want to understand and want to help, but to know how someone feels who wants to ctb, who thinks about death all the time, becomes possible when it is felt too.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I'm not sure we always have a choice when it comes to empathy itself. We can see an advert on the telly of a person or animal suffering and feel a swell of compassion towards them. Maybe we can either increase or decrease it. We can start ruminating on how it would truly feel to suffer like that. There again, we could turn away and decide- it's very sad but, we can't cope with that right now.

I'm not sure we can necessarily always control what we feel off the bat though. Say- a work colleague tells you their child is dying from cancer. Or, they've just attended the funeral of their sibling. You've got to be fairly cold to feel absolutely nothing. But then- even within the individual, the extent to which other's hardships gets to us probably varies. Some days, we may even find it so sad that we cry ourselves.

I imagine it depends on our circumstances too. I will almost definitely cry at the prospect of a motherless child because- I am one. I can immediately imagine the pain they are likely to now go through.

I tend to think some level of empathy is innate in us. It can probably be enhanced or repressed in up bringing. We may have been taught to consider others a lot or- not so much.

Maybe some of it is genetic too. Richard Dawkings argued that we have inherited altruistic genes because we are a social species. It benefits us to work in groups. So- empathy can end up useful. As you say though- as a hopefully reciprocal process. You scratch my back, I'll scratch yours type of deal. But- we need some empathy to be able to notice our neighbour is in distress in the first place. Otherwise- we may not even know to help.

I think maybe I'd say your question relates more to altruism and sympathy though. And there, I agree with you. I'm not sure all that many altruistic acts are purely selfless. I think we do indeed do acts of kindness to feel better in ourselves. In the hopes that our kindness will be reciprocated too. Or, we may simply do things because it is ingrained within us to be polite.

So- we may not genuinely want to give up our seat on the bus. We may not genuinely care about the person struggling who may need it more. But- we may not be able to sit comfortably knowing that is what we ought to do. So- we behave in a kind manner to avoid the guilt of not doing so- I think sometimes.

I remember a while back, a member here put forward the story that a guy pushed a lady out of the way of a falling lift (I think it was,) taking the brunt of it and dying in the process. So- he made the ultimate sacrifice to save a stranger. It is kind of hard to argue with the altruism displayed there.

But- I don't know entirely. What does actually run through a person's head in that scenario? I can't let this happen? I won't be able to live with myself if I don't try to save them? I can't witness this and do nothing? It's 100% a heroic act but- maybe we are also saving ourselves from passively witnessing disaster (and the guilt that no doubt follows) when we try at least to stop it. It's still incredible though because surely- the knee jerk reaction would be to protect ourselves.

 

[endlesstranquility]

I was abused so much that no matter I do, I can keep my sleep deeply, uninterrupted, and scheduled like maniac. No oversleeping by 2-3 hours, no daleying falling osleep - timed, structured, and executed. Every day. Perfectly.

 

[XiaroX]

I don't know. I've read pretty much everything by Charles Darwin, some Dawkins, and people who came after, and I really can't be cynical about empathy.

 

[MissAbyss]

Being highly empathetic - altruistic (which is acknowledged by those around me and even officially tested in a personality study) has rarely benefited me, and I don't consider myself that way; only other people have benefited from it. I never got any validation, credits for something I did or achieved, nor status. I really detest hypocrisy, people who act morally superior and lecture everyone, but ultimately fail to do so themselves. Make sure that your words and actions line up, or in other words "practicing what you preach". Funny because I was just talking about this topic with someone else tonight.

Anyway… what did it bring me? My entire life was filled with extreme abuse and neglect in various forms, isolation and feelings of alienation. In the end, it broke me. So I've personally come to see excessive empathy as more of a curse than a blessing. If you don't learn to protect yourself properly against this, you almost have no chance in this world.

Oh, and a side note: most people who constantly feel the need to brag about how empathetic they are, usually end up proving the opposite. In my experience, that kind of behavior is actually pretty narcissistic.

So coming back to your final conclusion; Yes, they exist, more than most people realize, but they usually stay in the background, quietly doing good without seeking attention. Because their kindness isn't loud or public, it can feel like the world is darker than it really is. There is still so much quiet kindness in the world, small, genuine moments of goodness between people every single day. It just rarely makes noise, so we don't hear about it.

 

[NormallyNeurotic]

Oh, and a side note: most people who constantly feel the need to brag about how empathetic they are, usually end up proving the opposite. In my experience, that kind of behavior is actually pretty narcissistic.

Can confirm, have met many a self-aware narc that used to hang out in "empath" spaces before they realized that they just liked feeling special. It's a rite of passage for some.

 

[XiaroX]

Miss Abyss, I really liked your post. I've also read many posts of yours when I was just lurking. I think we might be similar, having been open to the world and people in the spirit of love and understanding, but not having that reciprocated. Although quiet dignity and strength matter, sometimes I think it's important to try to stand up for kindness, compassion and complex empathy. Sometimes people can wait a lifetime in humble solitude, silence, and it can take strength and insight to finally speak their truth.

 

[mjolnir]

Being highly empathetic - altruistic (which is acknowledged by those around me and even officially tested in a personality study) has rarely benefited me, and I don't consider myself that way; only other people have benefited from it. I never got any validation, credits for something I did or achieved, nor status. I really detest hypocrisy, people who act morally superior and lecture everyone, but ultimately fail to do so themselves. Make sure that your words and actions line up, or in other words "practicing what you preach". Funny because I was just talking about this topic with someone else tonight.

Anyway… what did it bring me? My entire life was filled with extreme abuse and neglect in various forms, isolation and feelings of alienation. In the end, it broke me. So I've personally come to see excessive empathy as more of a curse than a blessing. If you don't learn to protect yourself properly against this, you almost have no chance in this world.

Oh, and a side note: most people who constantly feel the need to brag about how empathetic they are, usually end up proving the opposite. In my experience, that kind of behavior is actually pretty narcissistic.

So coming back to your final conclusion; Yes, they exist, more than most people realize, but they usually stay in the background, quietly doing good without seeking attention. Because their kindness isn't loud or public, it can feel like the world is darker than it really is. There is still so much quiet kindness in the world, small, genuine moments of goodness between people every single day. It just rarely makes noise, so we don't hear about it.

I agree, and I think like you: many good things go unnoticed, small gestures that change someone's world, or even an animal's, without any obligation to do so. In a way, altruism can expose good people to certain situations, and also bad people who take advantage of that. And I regret that these bad people have crossed paths with good people like you.

 

[Black_Knight]

Well there's a difference between innate, affective empathy and cognitive empathy (although I think a lot of times empathetic reactions are a mix of both). Affective empathy is involuntary, and if there's any motivation behind it it's subconscious, I think. It might serve some evolutionary self-interest, but on an individual level it just isn't calculated enough to serve personal self-interest, it's a biological response. Cognitive empathy, on the other hand, is always intended to pursue a goal. You have to actively practice it and there's a reason why you'd bother doing that, otherwise you wouldn't. Whether or not practicing cognitive empathy is selfish or how selfish it is depends on how it's being practiced, I think, and why. I do think cognitive empathy can be further mutated into "performative empathy" though, where instead of using it to trace roots down to some affective empathetic pathway where you genuinely feel what you didn't before, you just say you did it even though you didn't. And that can either be selfish or not depending on circumstances as well. Sometimes you're trying your best with the emotional framework you've been given.

 

[Pluto]

 

[Quantum_Marten0302]

True empathy, selfless and without expectation of gain, seems to be a rarity, a distant ideal.

Its not possible and i dont understand why you see it as an ideal