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TAW122

TAW122

Emissary of the right to die.
Aug 30, 2018
7,024
As someone who is an atheist, meaning I don't believe in any god(s), this would be of no concern to me. However, playing devil's advocate, this is a topic that I pondered about and I would be interested in seeing others' thought processes as well as sharing my own. So with that said, to briefly answer the question of this thread, I would rather go to Hell because there is no greater insult than to be with the same people (the pro-lifers) who in a previous life (on Earth) prevented me from leaving on my own terms and imposed non-consensual continued sentience for their own gain, at the cost of my free will and wishes.

I will assume the following conditions:
  • The religion I am referring to is that of Christianity itself.
  • Heaven and Hell exists and there is indeed, an afterlife.
  • No free will once in the afterlife (especially in Heaven) and is relegated to a non-thinking, non-independent individual.
  • No individual identity (essentially no longer oneself, but someone/something else...)
  • Pro-lifers end up in Heaven, where they are living ignorantly and blissfully, blindly following their 'God'.
  • The non-believers end up Hell through eternal torment.
  • In Hell, there is free will, but eternal torment beyond the scope of time.
  • Some of one's tormentors (from the previous life on Earth) are in Hell.

So regarding the question "Why would I rather go to Hell than Heaven if there is an afterlife, specifically?" I would rather go to Hell than Heaven because from a fundamental level, I would not wish to become sycophantic and blindly as well as blissfully follow some God indefinitely, losing all free will and independence. Now this is just the first layer of my reasoning. The next one is more related to justice and righteousness. Back on Earth, in our reality, there are situations where justice is not rendered appropriately or delivered for the matter, thus the responsible party is not held accountable and gets away with their crime, harm. They get to live a good life, on (mostly) their own terms while the person harmed suffered until death. So the next reason would be the question of "would you feel comfortable or even enjoy being in the company of people who have treated you poorly, imposed their will upon you, got away with the harm and escaped rightful justice (while on Earth)?" Personally, I would say no, I would not be ok with that (though I would lack the capacity to comprehend that, presuming that free will and independence is stripped from all post-sentient beings in Heaven). I would certainly not even wish to be in their presence nor share the same plane with my tormentors, let alone an indefinite or rather eternal time-frame (beyond the scope of time itself) with these post-sentient beings. It would be like having villains and criminals enjoying a good life in prison while the victim (outside of prison) suffered until death.

So in Hell (again assuming the conditions mentioned previously) at least I would have free will and the independence to do what I intend to do. It may be a separation from God, but that's fine because I would not wish to be a non-thinking individual, sycophant worshiping God for all eternity, not even aware of my lack of independence. Furthermore, assuming that most (not all) pro-lifers are in Heaven, and I'm in Hell, at least I won't have to be aware of their existence and they may lack free will while I have it for eternity. As for the tormentors that also did not make it to Heaven, then at least in Hell, I have an eternity to seek justice and get even against my tormentors that I lacked the chance to while on Earth. Most importantly, in Hell I would at least be able to exercise my rights be independent, not ruled nor governed by a God.

I get there will be an argument stating that but you are cutting your nose off to spite your face, which is valid and true to some extent, but presuming that all the conditions and constraints as listed in this thread are true, then perhaps it might be a worse fate to exist (in some form, while sentient and aware) of not being able to do anything but experience the same joys that every other being is in Heaven. One essentially becomes a sycophant, with no free will, no perception of irrationality, pain, or anything negative. Why is this a bad thing you might ask? As mentioned before, the lack of justice and righting the wrongs (which will then never be resolved when one is in Heaven and loses all free will, independence).

So in conclusion, this is why I would rather be in Hell, than Heaven, if there exists an afterlife. What would you choose to do in such a situation, would you choose Heaven or Hell?
 
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MidnightDream

MidnightDream

Warlock
Sep 5, 2022
740
Heaven - Trapped in a cult/brainwashed
Hell - Subject to eternal torment
I'll take neither, thanks. Unless you don't know you're brainwashed? In which case I'd pick heaven.. Wouldn't be that different to earth really when you think about it.
 
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Rainy_days

Rainy_days

Experienced
Dec 21, 2022
256
I find Christianity absurd but no, I wouldn't choose eternal fire and torture over having to tolerate some annoying people. Might change my answer if Satan had a chance of successful war to dethrone Yahweh.
 
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jodes2

jodes2

Hello people ❤️
Aug 28, 2022
7,736
If there is heaven and hell, I'd like to think you don't get shoved in one or the other based on principles people developed here. Instead, pro-lifers go to hell. So I'd rather be in heaven, with all the other level headed atheists. Definitely heaven. No burning, all the MDMA and cocaine you desire, threesomes with 2 women, I'll have all of that, thanks!
 
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M

m314

Member
Aug 11, 2022
7
This is enless mental masturbation about fairy tales for children. Death is the end for us. That doesn't make life any less special or beautiful while it's still here.
 
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F

Forever Sleep

Earned it we have...
May 4, 2022
12,246
Always loved it that Freddie Mercury WANTED to go to hell. 🤣.

I don't really know to be honest. Neither really appeals when I think about it thoroughly. In terms of people- I suppose heaven (A part of me likes to hope most of my family are already there.) Ok- there may be more pro life people there but they're not ALL antagonistic about it.

Plus, I'm imagining all the narcissists and sociopaths end up in hell. There's certain people I would do ANYTHING to avoid. So- if they actually go to heaven- I'll choose hell to get away from them.

Pretty sure I'd end up in hell anyway... If enough of 'me' exists when I reach the judgement stage- you can bet I'll have something to say to management. I get the impression God doesn't like to be questioned.
 
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C

CowsAreCool

Student
Sep 21, 2021
149
As someone who is an atheist, meaning I don't believe in any god(s), this would be of no concern to me. However, playing devil's advocate, this is a topic that I pondered about and I would be interested in seeing others' thought processes as well as sharing my own. So with that said, to briefly answer the question of this thread, I would rather go to Hell because there is no greater insult than to be with the same people (the pro-lifers) who in a previous life (on Earth) prevented me from leaving on my own terms and imposed non-consensual continued sentience for their own gain, at the cost of my free will and wishes.

I will assume the following conditions:
  • The religion I am referring to is that of Christianity itself.
  • Heaven and Hell exists and there is indeed, an afterlife.
  • No free will once in the afterlife (especially in Heaven) and is relegated to a non-thinking, non-independent individual.
  • No individual identity (essentially no longer oneself, but someone/something else...)
  • Pro-lifers end up in Heaven, where they are living ignorantly and blissfully, blindly following their 'God'.
  • The non-believers end up Hell through eternal torment.
  • In Hell, there is free will, but eternal torment beyond the scope of time.
  • Some of one's tormentors (from the previous life on Earth) are in Hell.

So regarding the question "Why would I rather go to Hell than Heaven if there is an afterlife, specifically?" I would rather go to Hell than Heaven because from a fundamental level, I would not wish to become sycophantic and blindly as well as blissfully follow some God indefinitely, losing all free will and independence. Now this is just the first layer of my reasoning. The next one is more related to justice and righteousness. Back on Earth, in our reality, there are situations where justice is not rendered appropriately or delivered for the matter, thus the responsible party is not held accountable and gets away with their crime, harm. They get to live a good life, on (mostly) their own terms while the person harmed suffered until death. So the next reason would be the question of "would you feel comfortable or even enjoy being in the company of people who have treated you poorly, imposed their will upon you, got away with the harm and escaped rightful justice (while on Earth)?" Personally, I would say no, I would not be ok with that (though I would lack the capacity to comprehend that, presuming that free will and independence is stripped from all post-sentient beings in Heaven). I would certainly not even wish to be in their presence nor share the same plane with my tormentors, let alone an indefinite or rather eternal time-frame (beyond the scope of time itself) with these post-sentient beings. It would be like having villains and criminals enjoying a good life in prison while the victim (outside of prison) suffered until death.

So in Hell (again assuming the conditions mentioned previously) at least I would have free will and the independence to do what I intend to do. It may be a separation from God, but that's fine because I would not wish to be a non-thinking individual, sycophant worshiping God for all eternity, not even aware of my lack of independence. Furthermore, assuming that most (not all) pro-lifers are in Heaven, and I'm in Hell, at least I won't have to be aware of their existence and they may lack free will while I have it for eternity. As for the tormentors that also did not make it to Heaven, then at least in Hell, I have an eternity to seek justice and get even against my tormentors that I lacked the chance to while on Earth. Most importantly, in Hell I would at least be able to exercise my rights be independent, not ruled nor governed by a God.

I get there will be an argument stating that but you are cutting your nose off to spite your face, which is valid and true to some extent, but presuming that all the conditions and constraints as listed in this thread are true, then perhaps it might be a worse fate to exist (in some form, while sentient and aware) of not being able to do anything but experience the same joys that every other being is in Heaven. One essentially becomes a sycophant, with no free will, no perception of irrationality, pain, or anything negative. Why is this a bad thing you might ask? As mentioned before, the lack of justice and righting the wrongs (which will then never be resolved when one is in Heaven and loses all free will, independence).

So in conclusion, this is why I would rather be in Hell, than Heaven, if there exists an afterlife. What would you choose to do in such a situation, would you choose Heaven or Hell?
I gander you, and others I see replying, know very little about Christianity.

Hell, eternal torment. Burning alive…. For eternity. Yeah, no. You don't want that. You can't pretend to want that.

And portraying heaven as a cult isn't exactly fair. Heaven is simply eternal bliss. I don't think those in heaven have to go to church. Lol. And you claim that those in heaven belong to a cult, but clearly it can't be too much of a cult since the existence of said heaven validates Christianity and God as a whole. I don't see any reason to believe free will wouldn't exist in heaven.
 
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Fadeawaaaay

Fadeawaaaay

Visionary
Nov 12, 2021
2,160
Heaven please
 
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S

SamTam33

Warlock
Oct 9, 2022
763
Since all you have to do is repent for your sins before you die, I'm thinking heaven would be crowded af.

Send me to hell so I can burn in relative peace.
 
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TAW122

TAW122

Emissary of the right to die.
Aug 30, 2018
7,024
Heaven - Trapped in a cult/brainwashed
Hell - Subject to eternal torment
I'll take neither, thanks. Unless you don't know you're brainwashed? In which case I'd pick heaven.. Wouldn't be that different to earth really when you think about it.
Yeah I (personally) too, would choose neither in reality (which is what we are experiencing now) and as an atheist myself. I only introduced the scenario meaning that if given two choices, I'd choose the lesser of two evils, which would be Hell for me.

I find Christianity absurd but no, I wouldn't choose eternal fire and torture over having to tolerate some annoying people. Might change my answer if Satan had a chance of successful war to dethrone Yahweh.
If I recall correctly, there was a passage in the Bible (as an atheist who went to church in the past and read/studied the Bible, I know of some stories) stating there was once a war in heaven, and if I recalled, it seems like Yahweh (God) prevailed. :aw:

If there is heaven and hell, I'd like to think you don't get shoved in one or the other based on principles people developed here. Instead, pro-lifers go to hell. So I'd rather be in heaven, with all the other level headed atheists. Definitely heaven. No burning, all the MDMA and cocaine you desire, threesomes with 2 women, I'll have all of that, thanks!
If the Heaven that you are referring to is true and I have access to free will, sense of identity (TAW122 = TAW122, or me = me), then it may not be a bad post-sentience existence. Though in reality I would certainly prefer just nothingness and non-sentience itself.

This is enless mental masturbation about fairy tales for children. Death is the end for us. That doesn't make life any less special or beautiful while it's still here.
It doesn't, but this thread is just aimed at trying to understand the logic of some of us here, in a hypothetical scenario. It helps to know how others think and reason.

Always loved it that Freddie Mercury WANTED to go to hell. 🤣.

I don't really know to be honest. Neither really appeals when I think about it thoroughly. In terms of people- I suppose heaven (A part of me likes to hope most of my family are already there.) Ok- there may be more pro life people there but they're not ALL antagonistic about it.

Plus, I'm imagining all the narcissists and sociopaths end up in hell. There's certain people I would do ANYTHING to avoid. So- if they actually go to heaven- I'll choose hell to get away from them.

Pretty sure I'd end up in hell anyway... If enough of 'me' exists when I reach the judgement stage- you can bet I'll have something to say to management. I get the impression God doesn't like to be questioned.
That is very logical indeed, if the people you despise are in one plane, then you would go to the other plane (Heaven or Hell, vice versa) to avoid them. Regarding the last part, given I'm a skeptic, cynic, I suppose (according to what mainstream Christianity's standards and tenets are) I would end up in Hell. Though in reality, I would just end up in nothingness (as an atheist).

I gander you, and others I see replying, know very little about Christianity.

Hell, eternal torment. Burning alive…. For eternity. Yeah, no. You don't want that. You can't pretend to want that.

And portraying heaven as a cult isn't exactly fair. Heaven is simply eternal bliss. I don't think those in heaven have to go to church. Lol. And you claim that those in heaven belong to a cult, but clearly it can't be too much of a cult since the existence of said heaven validates Christianity and God as a whole. I don't see any reason to believe free will wouldn't exist in heaven.
I don't believe free will to exist because (unless I'm wrong) from what I have heard and witnessed during my times when I attended church (as an atheist), the preachers mainly preached that in heaven things will be perfect and there will be no suffering and one would become the best version of oneself, meaning there would be no free will since things are perfect and one would not be what one is in this current existence on Earth. Additionally, from other Christians (including some religious friends that I was once with) stated that one would not even wish to have 'free will' because things will be perfect and all that..

Since all you have to do is repent for your sins before you die, I'm thinking heaven would be crowded af.

Send me to hell so I can burn in relative peace.
That would be the ultimate injustice when the worst people just commit the worst acts (both legal and/or illegal) and get away with justice by simply repenting away their sins. (Sure some apologists and other Christians could state that nobody but the individual knows or that God knows that he/she has 'truly' repented but that's beside the point...). This grave injustice (as mentioned in my initial post) would be where one would share the same fate, same reward, same (whatever have you) in Heaven and there is little to nothing one can do to correct the injustice. Whereas Hell (according to my understanding) is where one would have the ability and eternity to right the wrongs that one has endured while in a previous existence (on Earth).
 
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PleaseTakeMeAway

PleaseTakeMeAway

Nothing to say anymore.
Jul 16, 2022
118
can't i just live in a dream world where i can be happy once i die?
 
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releasespieces

releasespieces

Poles are shifting, death is looming
Jun 26, 2022
286
Even if there were some sort of afterlife, there is no way there is a heaven or a hell. This was made up by humans to control other humans.
 
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Jarni

Jarni

Love is a toothache in the heart. H.Heine
Dec 12, 2020
383
I think it's a French comedian who said he'd rather go to hell because he wouldn't have friends in heaven :-)

And Stephen King said he would go to heaven because hell is already there..

But everything that lasts for eternity is nothing but hell. Sooo boooring.
 
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OldDrummer

Arcanist
Feb 4, 2022
435
As someone raised deeply Catholic, both concepts of Heaven and Hell seemed equally ridiculous to me. I abandoned it when I was 12, much to the chagrin of my very Catholic late mum and decided to go on a fact finding mission.

In my early 50's now, and I can honestly say Buddhism provides a lot of answer to me, but that's just me. There are heaven and hell realms in Buddhism but they are considered to be best avoided!

The more I read on Buddhist teachings, the more it's like a Haines manual for your car, or a Dummies Guide. Again, that's just my personal experience.
 
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releasespieces

releasespieces

Poles are shifting, death is looming
Jun 26, 2022
286
As someone raised deeply Catholic, both concepts of Heaven and Hell seemed equally ridiculous to me. I abandoned it when I was 12, much to the chagrin of my very Catholic late mum and decided to go on a fact finding mission.

In my early 50's now, and I can honestly say Buddhism provides a lot of answer to me, but that's just me. There are heaven and hell realms in Buddhism but they are considered to be best avoided!

The more I read on Buddhist teachings, the more it's like a Haines manual for your car, or a Dummies Guide. Again, that's just my personal experience.
I agree, Buddhism is as close as a religion can get to making sense. This is a life of suffering, don't get too involved or you'll increase that suffering.
 
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Jumper Seoirse

Jumper Seoirse

Student
Apr 8, 2022
160
I believe in the afterlife there may be a God or we are just eternal beings who come to earth as thousands of years in the afterlife is boring I am Catholic but I do not believe in any earthly religion.

But saying that I can experience both if I end up in Hell, I just ask for forgiveness and it's straight to Heaven baby, :halo:

Cheers

Geo
 
NeverReallyHere

NeverReallyHere

Student
Mar 15, 2021
105
I don't think it's really worth expending the mental energy on such musings about Heaven and Hell. They're sick fantasies, concocted in order to control people.
 
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annointed_towers

annointed_towers

Cursed by God
Dec 9, 2022
320
Speaking as someone who is here because I committed the unforgivable sin (Google it), I'd much say heaven. I am afflicted with feeling worms in my head and all over my body as punishment. I'm going to hell according to scripture and the punishment I feel is indication. Heaven and hell are unfortunately very real places. I say this as a cradle Catholic who accidentally blasphemed in a moment of rage and is now paying. I'm also aware that if I commit suicide I'll only go to hell sooner, but it's very hard living on earth with one foot already in hell. I'm disabled now. Was once very prosperous and successful, Harvard grad. Then the worms hit this time last year after I screamed into the sky.
 
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WaitingForMyRide

WaitingForMyRide

Order out of chaos
Sep 6, 2022
115
I'd rather laugh with sinners than weep with the saints. The sinners are oh so fun! 😉
 
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A

AliceTheGoon

Specialist
Jul 1, 2022
399
In Hell, there is free will, but eternal torment beyond the scope of time.
How free is that will, can you opt out of the eternal torment?
 
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Wannagonow

Specialist
Nov 16, 2022
376
Nope. No pain and suffering for me. I've done enough of that already in this lifetime. I'll take the potential boredom of heaven over the eternal flames with Satan any day! (and if there's just nothingness- well...I'll never know)!
 
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releasespieces

releasespieces

Poles are shifting, death is looming
Jun 26, 2022
286
Speaking as someone who is here because I committed the unforgivable sin (Google it), I'd much say heaven. I am afflicted with feeling worms in my head and all over my body as punishment. I'm going to hell according to scripture and the punishment I feel is indication. Heaven and hell are unfortunately very real places. I say this as a cradle Catholic who accidentally blasphemed in a moment of rage and is now paying. I'm also aware that if I commit suicide I'll only go to hell sooner, but it's very hard living on earth with one foot already in hell. I'm disabled now. Was once very prosperous and successful, Harvard grad. Then the worms hit this time last year after I screamed into the sky.
I hope you're getting help my dear. None of what you're saying makes any sense. I think a lot of what you're going through may be self-inflicted. The religious stuff can be very damaging to people and it sounds like it's gotten the better of you. You aren't going to hell, nor are you halfway there. There could be something physiologically wrong that is causing the sensation of worms crawling on you. I feel for you and I hope you are able to remedy your situation.
 
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C

conflagration

Experienced
Jul 29, 2022
207
Buddhism gives an interesting answer to this question: neither heaven nor hell, just blissful non-existence.
 
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