Discussion Hard pill to swallow but some of you need to hear it- SI is no excuse for neglecting/abusing/mistreating living beings, or an excuse to do nothing

[bugfart]

I've come across a lot of individuals both irl, on this site, online friends, etc, who have the mindset that because they are suicidal they are entitled to do absolutely nothing. They claim suicidal ideation and use it as a crutch. Go to college or trade school or get a job when I'm fully capable of doing so and actually have aptitude in that area? "No thanks I'm suicidal I just can't do anything, and I also can't do anything right :((".

I know someone in particular who knows all the fundamentals of electricity, electrical math (which is hard), repairs his own electrical problems and his neighbors, can build things and tinker with things and put them back together, pick locks, hot wire things, hunt, butcher, you name it. He's extremely gifted. He instead opts to treat everyone in his life terribly and leech off of everything including me, and claims he is too suicidal to do anything. He has a domestic violence record and thinks his mental illness entitled him fists to use on a woman.

I also know people who have neglected animals to the point of death online and in person. They usually feel guilty which is a start, but they keep getting animals. They keep letting them make messes inside the house, don't clean litter boxes and let ammonia and filth build up from that, can't be bothered to feed their animals or give them water, don't let their dog outside, couldn't be roused from bed for any emergency or their pets need to use the restroom. And they think they are entitled to an animal for "emotional support". Guilt or acknowledging your problems is a start, but it does not erase your own poor choices or the death/ neglect of an innocent creature.

My family has alot of animals, but personally at college I do not have one in my dorm. I visit home sometimes. I have hypersomnia. Even when left completely alone at home for days or weeks I wake up to let my dogs out, feed them twice a day, have set times to let them out, give them attention, involve them in my life. I wake up early to feed chickens and goats and then I go back and take a nap when life permits me to. There is absolutely no excuse.

I'm on and off with a guy who sees all people who work or go to college as "capitalist pigs" but he depends on his mother and me and housing from the state, and would prefer to donate plasma or turn out drugs/tricks instead of any gainful employment. (He's the same guy I mentioned in the earlier paragraph). He is not grateful for my money. I give him 10 dollars and he asks where the rest of it is. I gave him all the resources to get help including disability funds or vocational rehab and he refused.

A lot of people glorify a neet lifestyle or begrudge working or hate the economic state of the world but it's not like I want to work either. Not many people genuinely do. Life is not an advertisement or hallmark movie no matter how happy other people seem to be. There is no excuse for leeching off of people or extorting them for money whilst treating them badly. If you had severe autism, or Down syndrome, or catatonic schizophrenia to where you were completely unaware of your actions and their consequences, I feel like that could be an excuse. But many people are fully capable of working or making meaningful change but refuse and mistreat others in their wake.

I feel even worse for the children of these sorts of people. I was treated poorly by my father, he is one of those types that refuses to work or do much of anything. He neglects his cat. He refused to see me a lot growing up and he'd get so frustrated he had me over at his place that sometimes he'd yell at me if I came out of my room. He did attempt suicide and got mental treatment- but has still never taken accountability or improved his life. Real harm has been done to me and his cat and my bio mother. There is no effort there to mend these relationships or problems due to the crutch of "I'm mentally ill" "I'm suicidal".

There's a lot of people on this earth who died mentally many years ago and they make it everyone else's problem. They mistreat others and have such a strong sense of entitlement, they believe their own issues are the most severe and important, that nobody else has ever suffered, and that nobody can ever understand. That is simply not true. There are many deeply miserable people who still work, who don't bully or mistreat or neglect people and animals, who do what is needed of them.

I know nobody asked to be born. I didn't ask to be born either. But do I sit on my behind all day miserable about it instead of making any change or take it out on other people? No. I'm at college and I literally have a noose already tied hidden in my closet in a box. I am functionally disabled by a couple things I've got going on. I've been through alot. I still show up to class and pull my weight. I still care for my family and my animals. I treat my friends well to the best of my ability. I treat anyone I date to the best of my ability.

I read a quote that really defined how I felt about this topic and James Baldwin said it:

I can only tell you about yourself as much as I can face about myself. And this has happened to everybody who's tried to live. You go through life for a long time thinking, No one has ever suffered the way I've suffered, my God, my God. And then you realize -- You read something or you hear something, and you realize that your suffering does not isolate you; your suffering is your bridge. Many people have suffered before you, many people are suffering around you and always will, and all you can do is bring, hopefully, a little light into that suffering. Enough light so that the person who is suffering can begin to comprehend his suffering and begin to live with it and begin to change it, change the situation. We don't change anything; all we can do is invest people with the morale to change it for themselves.

 

[U. A.]

Shitstorm incoming in 3...2...

 

[Jadeith]

 

[Macedonian1987]

The only thing i neglected because of my plans to ctb soon is my appereance. I dont have the need to look atractive for anyone anymore. I dont have any pets, but i ocasionally give food to some stray dogs. This brings me happiness when im sad.

 

[human-person]

My dog is the entire reason I get out of bed since days. I got him to help my mental health because I could never neglect an animal the way I do myself.

When he needs to go out, I also have to go get fresh air and see life exists. When he needs a bath, I get so wet that I might as well shower too. When he needs to be fed, I can eat a bit along side him.

Anyone that neglects an animal like that doesn't deserve an animal.

 

[bugfart]

The only thing i neglected because of my plans to ctb soon is my appereance. I dont have the need to look atractive for anyone anymore. I dont have any pets, but i ocasionally give food to some stray dogs. This brings me happiness when im sad.

Appearance is ok. I wear comfy clothes and I don't buy into needing to consume for insecurities (shaving, painting nails, makeup, extensive hair stuff). I think at some point if you are getting fungal infections from not washing or stinking to the point nobody can be around you then that is potentially a social issue, but beyond that courtesy of not being biohazardous if in public (by choice) appearance is fine to not care about. I wouldn't beat yourself up over it. I think you are doing just fine. And it's good you give food to stray dogs, stray dogs love tuna especially.

My dog is the entire reason I get out of bed since days. I got him to help my mental health because I could never neglect an animal the way I do myself.

When he needs to go out, I also have to go get fresh air and see life exists. When he needs a bath, I get so wet that I might as well shower too. When he needs to be fed, I can eat a bit along side him.

Anyone that neglects an animal like that doesn't deserve an animal.

My dogs bring me purpose too when I'm with them. I also only get out of bed because of them. I'd sleep until 3 if I was alone, which I often do in my dorm, but at home I rise with the chickens and take care of everything. I've experienced all that you've said, eating alongside them and bathing alongside them. I think a healthy force of responsibility is needed and good for a lot of depressed people. Some people I've had the misfortune of coming across do not deserve animals however because their mentality is so careless though.

 

[Namelesa Graves]

I would would definitely say there is little to no excuse for treating people who done nothing wrong to you or animals and pets poorly cus of suicidalness but I would say its a valid excuse not to work if you have no other responsibilities such as to take care of pets or children, especially as recovery or suicide are both incredibly difficult and its unfair to force people into something that can make them more miserable just to live comfortable when there is hardly any help for recovery or suicide.

 

[NormallyNeurotic]

I would would definitely say there is little to no excuse for treating people who done nothing wrong to you or animals and pets poorly cus of suicidalness but I would say its a valid excuse not to work if you have no other responsibilities such as to take care of pets or children, especially as recovery or suicide are both incredibly difficult and its unfair to force people into something that can make them more miserable just to live comfortable when there is hardly any help for recovery or suicide.

Thanks, I was trying to convey this but you did it better <3

Like not disagreeing with this thread, but I do find it kinda funny how out of place the discussion regarding work and schooling sounds compared to the other examples of literal animal/domestic abusers.

 

[Jadeith]

Actually, duties towards others like parents, offspring, partner (do not have any pets atm) - that's the main thing that keeps me here. As soon as i'm no longer needed or unable to adequately perform my duties, i'm gone.

 

[bugfart]

Thanks, I was trying to convey this but you did it better <3

Like not disagreeing with this thread, but I do find it kinda funny how out of place the discussion regarding work and schooling sounds compared to the other examples of literal animal/domestic abusers.

I meant moreso to convey that animals, children, and life, needs money. And that nobody really does want to work, but to let responsibilities slip by hurts other people. For example needing to use other people and manipulate people for money even if you are capable of working. I used some examples of my dad and my ex. And I don't mean disabled people or genuinely completely devastated suicidal people in my post. I fully support disabled people getting checks and housing, and depression can reach disability levels. I'm talking about people who when confronted about any wrong doing or any flaw bring up SI or depression as an excuse, and are fully capable of doing the care and work they should be doing but refuse to. It is a manipulation tactic used by a lot of abusers to fake suicidality or weaponize it.

Actually, duties towards others like parents, offspring, partner (do not have any pets atm) - that's the main thing that keeps me here. As soon as i'm no longer needed or unable to adequately perform my duties, i'm gone.

I feel the same way.

 

[Macedonian1987]

Appearance is ok. I wear comfy clothes and I don't buy into needing to consume for insecurities (shaving, painting nails, makeup, extensive hair stuff). I think at some point if you are getting fungal infections from not washing or stinking to the point nobody can be around you then that is potentially a social issue, but beyond that courtesy of not being biohazardous if in public (by choice) appearance is fine to not care about. I wouldn't beat yourself up over it. I think you are doing just fine. And it's good you give food to stray dogs, stray dogs love tuna especially.


My dogs bring me purpose too when I'm with them. I also only get out of bed because of them. I'd sleep until 3 if I was alone, which I often do in my dorm, but at home I rise with the chickens and take care of everything. I've experienced all that you've said, eating alongside them and bathing alongside them. I think a healthy force of responsibility is needed and good for a lot of depressed people. Some people I've had the misfortune of coming across do not deserve animals however because their mentality is so careless though.

I stopped caring for my appearance but I never stopped caring about my personal hygiene. I just stopped having a fancy haircuts, putting hair gel on my hair that sort of nonsence. As for my hygiene i wash with the same frequency as before. I shave less frequently too. I used to shave every 4-5 days now i shave every 2 weeks.

 

[martyrdom]

Those "anti-capitalists" who talk about all that are funny because they clearly haven't read any anti-capitalist theory or have any vision of how an anti-capitalist, socialist, anarchist or communist society would actually function in practice. Work is still a part of it, it'd just be humane and reasonable, not what it is now. What a lot of these people actually want isn't socialism/anarchism/communism, it's a society with a slave caste that does all the work while they lounge around (ie. what we actually have right now). If you reintroduced slavery with progressive enough talking points they'd probably get behind it.

And I say this as someone whose functioning is too bad to be able to work or take part in society in any meaningful way. I can't work anymore because I have traumatic mutism and I cannot be in the presence of other people without regressing to a complete loss of my mental and physical faculties. I did spend 2 months actually, clinically catatonic, and part of my exit plan involves ensuring my family runs out of money (ie. my own savings from my old job) and makes it impossible for them to continue taking care of me. It's very obvious that you aren't talking about people like me and it's disingenuous for anyone to pretend otherwise.

 

[looking4partner]

Those "anti-capitalists" who talk about all that are funny because they clearly haven't read any anti-capitalist theory or have any vision of how an anti-capitalist, socialist, anarchist or communist society would actually function in practice. Work is still a part of it, it'd just be humane and reasonable, not what it is now. What a lot of these people actually want isn't socialism/anarchism/communism, it's a society with a slave caste that does all the work while they lounge around (ie. what we actually have right now). If you reintroduced slavery with progressive enough talking points they'd probably get behind it.

And I say this as someone whose functioning is too bad to be able to work or take part in society in any meaningful way. I can't work anymore because I have traumatic mutism and I cannot be in the presence of other people without regressing to a complete loss of my mental and physical faculties. I did spend 2 months actually, clinically catatonic, and part of my exit plan involves ensuring my family runs out of money (ie. my own savings from my old job) and makes it impossible for them to continue taking care of me. It's very obvious that you aren't talking about people like me and it's disingenuous for anyone to pretend otherwise.

I want to clarify that what I am about to say is not intending to start an argument although I do see how it could come across that way. But I am intending it as a discussion not a confrontation and I hope that will help it to not come across in an inflammatory way or something like that.

I wanted to say that usually each & every person interprets what someone says differently based on their own life history/past, possible trauma, opinions, & emotions. So, even if someone said one paragraph and 50 people read it, each of those 50 people would have a different impression of what the message is saying and/or implying. Especially when it is someone expressing opinions. And so I don't think it's disingenuous for some people to be hurt by a couple of the things said in the first post. Especially people with mental illnesses/difficulties which also colors people's interpretations of what is being said to them. Because even if the OP didn't intend a certain message, it doesn't mean that message wouldn't necessarily come across. And it does sound similar to what people say to depressed people about how they need to just try harder when functioning and working can both be severely affected by mental health. To a level where they are not able to work even though they aren't physically disabled. And mental illness alone can still be physically disabling even if it's not to the level of catatonia or high support needs autism. There are also barriers to people with mental illnesses that make something like a job even more difficult because of stigma and mental ableism.

For example, if someone with social anxiety stops working because they have severe anxiety about people constantly judging them and they try to work a job where their coworkers gossip about the people they don't like daily including that person. And if they have a boss who gets angry easily and criticizes & yells at them for every mistake they make.

And someone could be able to work with depression for a long time even though they are not doing well at all. And they may not be able to continue working if they try treatments that don't work and they feel like they can't go back to work unless they can find some type of relief and end up applying for disability.

(I write a lot to explain & give examples of what I mean and be more specific btw, not with the intent of argument)

And I do agree that if people are not at the level of being able to keep animals alive, they should not be owning them. And I do agree that they should not use it to defend being abusive & violent.

I have recently learned that things like TBI & PTSD & epilepsy can cause reactions that can be uncontrollable especially without access to treatment. (And I would like to clarify that I am definitely not defending physical abuse. But I have learned that someone with PTSD could wake up punching in fight-or-flight if the person waking them up doesn't say their name for example. Or could start arguing if a trigger of their trauma happens that reignites the same emotions from that trauma even if the situation would be considered a neutral situation by most people)

I am now getting slightly off topic from what I was trying to say because I am not saying that physical abuse is ok from anyone including someone with mental diagnoses and my main idea was having to do with explaining about the occupation or lack thereof topic in connection to someone with any type of mental illness. And because you can't always tell by your impressions of someone what their level/impact of mental illness is. I guess I was also partly trying to explain that some of these disorders can cause less impulse control causing people to get angry very quickly without being able to regulate -in the sense of yelling for example.

And this reply is also intended as a response to OP's post, martyrdom. So that is another reason why it's so long. I also have difficulty summarizing which has gotten worse recently.

But I did want to ask you -with a genuine & nonconfrontational intent- why does your exit plan include using up your money that you said makes it possible for them to care for you? (I ask because in the case that someone does not succeed for some reason as life & plans are never 100% predictable -I do not wish for that to happen to anyone but there is a certain percentage chance no matter who the person is & also based on type of method- wouldn't it be better to still have that money available?) This is something that I have worried about some and I have been researching and overthinking the many possible outcomes in my own situation. And I bring it up in an attempt to be helpful not judgmental. Or if you know about tone indicators: /genuine /not mad

 

[FadingSnowFake]

"No thanks I'm suicidal I just can't do anything, and I also can't do anything right :((".

Do people actually say this? I mean, if we are suicidal, we normally don't advertise it?

 

[real human being]

I'm talking about people who when confronted about any wrong doing or any flaw bring up SI or depression as an excuse, and are fully capable of doing the care and work they should be doing but refuse to. It is a manipulation tactic used by a lot of abusers to fake suicidality or weaponize it.

And how do you, as an external observer know what they are fully capable or not capable of doing? Depression and other mental illnesses can be extremely debilitating, like you said. Perhaps these people in your life really are disabled by their depression/suicidality to a degree where doing the work you believe they 'should' be doing is incredibly difficult and painful or impossible for them.

Also, you are not the judge of what people 'should' do. None of us chose to be born, and nobody is obligated to live life in a way which other people consider acceptable. If a person prefers to be a NEET, that choice is just as valid as your choice to work.

Here's a thought, maybe you should stop focusing on others' perceived shortcomings just because they choose to live life in a way which is not the 'correct' way according to your worldview, and just focus on yourself.

 

[martyrdom]

Don't worry, I don't consider you confrontational and I don't disagree with what you're saying.

But I did want to ask you -with a genuine & nonconfrontational intent- why does your exit plan include using up your money that you said makes it possible for them to care for you? (I ask because in the case that someone does not succeed for some reason as life & plans are never 100% predictable -I do not wish for that to happen to anyone but there is a certain percentage chance no matter who the person is & also based on type of method- wouldn't it be better to still have that money available?) This is something that I have worried about some and I have been researching and overthinking the many possible outcomes in my own situation. And I bring it up in an attempt to be helpful not judgmental. Or if you know about tone indicators: /genuine /not mad

I don't have a reason to keep the money, I am going to die. When it is no longer financially viable to care for me, it's going to be harder for my family to pose additional obstacles to my suicide, ie. hospitalization, etc.

 

[DeniedPeace]

The OP discusses two distinct topics without clearly distinguishing them: "Doing nothing" and mistreating living beings.

I won't discuss mistreating living beings, at least not in this post, as it is an entirely different topic than "Doing nothing".

OP states that "being suicidal is no excuse for doing nothing".
First, suicidal people don't do nothing, they play video games, they try to recover or plan their CTB, etc. What OP means by "doing nothing" is actually not working, the phrasing itself is a moral judgement, which implies that not working is equivalent to doing nothing, which in the context of OP means doing nothing of value.
But what is work if not a trade of an individual's time and energy for a share of society's production? In the context of a vast majority of suicidal people, this trade is unfavorable.
OP insists on suicidal people's sense of entitlement. But the reality is that society has a sense of entitlement to the individual's work. And not only did no one agree to being born, society actively forces the individual to stay alive.
It is morally obvious that if society is to force individuals who didn't agree to be part of it in the first place to stay alive, then society must in return, as a fair trade, give the individual the minimum means to live.

 

[Downdraft]

Shitstorm incoming in 3...2...

Actually, none of this strikes me as controversial. He just says because a situation is bad, it doesn't have to be even worse. And you'd need to be hard-pressed to argue mental illness enables you to be unethical lol.

 

[CatLvr]

Do people actually say this? I mean, if we are suicidal, we normally don't advertise it?

I think some do. In fact, I would go so far as to say that many people just do the absolute bare minimum, and use "depression" as an excuse to leave EVERYTHING else to someone they "love". My late husband was like that -- he went to work and came home and watch tv. That was it. EVERYTHING else was MY responsibility because he knew, at the end of the day, that if he just waited, I would take care of whatever it was -- cleaning the house, paying the bills, keeping up with the yard, ANYTHING that wasn't his employment.

At the end it was so bad that he even quit taking the meds that were keeping him alive, no doubt because he thought I was paying closer attention -- "getting sick" was his way of getting even with me when he was mad at me because he knew I would have to take care of him, on top of everything else -- than I was (what adult doesn't take their insulin) and it killed him. Some people really are just that bad.

It is an attention grab for some. I have also known people who were not suicidal but would make half-hearted attempts for the attention it got them. You know that thing they say -- any attention is good attention?? Some people really believe that shit.

 

[babydoctor]

I've come across a lot of individuals both irl, on this site, online friends, etc, who have the mindset that because they are suicidal they are entitled to do absolutely nothing. They claim suicidal ideation and use it as a crutch. Go to college or trade school or get a job when I'm fully capable of doing so and actually have aptitude in that area? "No thanks I'm suicidal I just can't do anything, and I also can't do anything right :((".

I know someone in particular who knows all the fundamentals of electricity, electrical math (which is hard), repairs his own electrical problems and his neighbors, can build things and tinker with things and put them back together, pick locks, hot wire things, hunt, butcher, you name it. He's extremely gifted. He instead opts to treat everyone in his life terribly and leech off of everything including me, and claims he is too suicidal to do anything. He has a domestic violence record and thinks his mental illness entitled him fists to use on a woman.

I also know people who have neglected animals to the point of death online and in person. They usually feel guilty which is a start, but they keep getting animals. They keep letting them make messes inside the house, don't clean litter boxes and let ammonia and filth build up from that, can't be bothered to feed their animals or give them water, don't let their dog outside, couldn't be roused from bed for any emergency or their pets need to use the restroom. And they think they are entitled to an animal for "emotional support". Guilt or acknowledging your problems is a start, but it does not erase your own poor choices or the death/ neglect of an innocent creature.

My family has alot of animals, but personally at college I do not have one in my dorm. I visit home sometimes. I have hypersomnia. Even when left completely alone at home for days or weeks I wake up to let my dogs out, feed them twice a day, have set times to let them out, give them attention, involve them in my life. I wake up early to feed chickens and goats and then I go back and take a nap when life permits me to. There is absolutely no excuse.

I'm on and off with a guy who sees all people who work or go to college as "capitalist pigs" but he depends on his mother and me and housing from the state, and would prefer to donate plasma or turn out drugs/tricks instead of any gainful employment. (He's the same guy I mentioned in the earlier paragraph). He is not grateful for my money. I give him 10 dollars and he asks where the rest of it is. I gave him all the resources to get help including disability funds or vocational rehab and he refused.

A lot of people glorify a neet lifestyle or begrudge working or hate the economic state of the world but it's not like I want to work either. Not many people genuinely do. Life is not an advertisement or hallmark movie no matter how happy other people seem to be. There is no excuse for leeching off of people or extorting them for money whilst treating them badly. If you had severe autism, or Down syndrome, or catatonic schizophrenia to where you were completely unaware of your actions and their consequences, I feel like that could be an excuse. But many people are fully capable of working or making meaningful change but refuse and mistreat others in their wake.

I feel even worse for the children of these sorts of people. I was treated poorly by my father, he is one of those types that refuses to work or do much of anything. He neglects his cat. He refused to see me a lot growing up and he'd get so frustrated he had me over at his place that sometimes he'd yell at me if I came out of my room. He did attempt suicide and got mental treatment- but has still never taken accountability or improved his life. Real harm has been done to me and his cat and my bio mother. There is no effort there to mend these relationships or problems due to the crutch of "I'm mentally ill" "I'm suicidal".

There's a lot of people on this earth who died mentally many years ago and they make it everyone else's problem. They mistreat others and have such a strong sense of entitlement, they believe their own issues are the most severe and important, that nobody else has ever suffered, and that nobody can ever understand. That is simply not true. There are many deeply miserable people who still work, who don't bully or mistreat or neglect people and animals, who do what is needed of them.

I know nobody asked to be born. I didn't ask to be born either. But do I sit on my behind all day miserable about it instead of making any change or take it out on other people? No. I'm at college and I literally have a noose already tied hidden in my closet in a box. I am functionally disabled by a couple things I've got going on. I've been through alot. I still show up to class and pull my weight. I still care for my family and my animals. I treat my friends well to the best of my ability. I treat anyone I date to the best of my ability.

I read a quote that really defined how I felt about this topic and James Baldwin said it:

"No thanks I'm suicidal I just can't do anything, and I also can't do anything right :((."

This line right here describes so many people. There's a certain narcissism in self-hatred that's difficult to grapple with when you're suffering. I'm guilty of it myself at times :(

 

[FadingSnowFake]

I think some do. In fact, I would go so far as to say that many people just do the absolute bare minimum, and use "depression" as an excuse to leave EVERYTHING else to someone they "love". My late husband was like that -- he went to work and came home and watch tv. That was it. EVERYTHING else was MY responsibility because he knew, at the end of the day, that if he just waited, I would take care of whatever it was -- cleaning the house, paying the bills, keeping up with the yard, ANYTHING that wasn't his employment.

At the end it was so bad that he even quit taking the meds that were keeping him alive, no doubt because he thought I was paying closer attention -- "getting sick" was his way of getting even with me when he was mad at me because he knew I would have to take care of him, on top of everything else -- than I was (what adult doesn't take their insulin) and it killed him. Some people really are just that bad.

It is an attention grab for some. I have also known people who were not suicidal but would make half-hearted attempts for the attention it got them. You know that thing they say -- any attention is good attention?? Some people really believe that shit.

I'm sorry you had to go through that. This kind of behaviour sounds emotionally abusive, aggressive, maybe some personality disorder or just plain rude, selfish, etc. It reminds me of my dad, tbh. Thinking about it now, just as there are good and bad people in general, maybe there are the good and not so good suicidal?

Since everyone here on SaSu is so caring, I concluded that suicidal people in general are kinder and more compassionate, that mainly we are victims of someone or something. But everyone, including unkind people can become victims of something, and maybe that something makes them unkinder? I'm saying this as I start to wonder if my dad wasn't one of these. And I understand being suicidal better now, I guess. From what I heard, he refused to accept his diabetes in the first place, and he stopped using insulin according to my mom. In the end the diabetes got to him bad, and we don't know the effects of the illness on the mind. But that shouldn't be an excuse for the way he treated my mom. For the first 13 years of my life that he was alive, I was always afraid of him. Maybe some people are just born unkind or angry for some reason, maybe life makes them that way, maybe it gets worse when they get sick, and maybe they finally see a way out, but not without hurting the ones around them?

Yes, there are the attention seekers, it is for this reason that I thought it strange that someone who is genuinely suicidal would use being suicidal as an excuse. I don't want people to know about my feelings because it would create problems for me to cbt, so why mention it? It would also be unfair for others to carry the burden with me. But it would make sense, if as you say they have this need "to get even" with someone, or to take out whatever frustration or anger they have inside, on someone else.

I don't know if my dad threatened suicide, I know he threatened my mom with a firearm and strangled her once. Maybe he just saw stopping the meds as a way out of a situation that got bad (he was unemployed, sick, no money, we lost our house and stayed with family). Maybe he was suffering, and maybe he lost it in the end, but we shouldn't hurt others, like he hurt my mom, and your husband hurt you. Thank you for making me think about this. At 50 years old, and 37 years after his death I think I finally understand the sh*t my parents went through, how f*cked this life is, just a cycle of wtf even with good and bad people. And I'm thankful to have ended up here in a caring community of kind fellow suicidal people.

 

[real human being]

The OP discusses two distinct topics without clearly distinguishing them: "Doing nothing" and mistreating living beings.

I won't discuss mistreating living beings, at least not in this post, as it is an entirely different topic than "Doing nothing".

OP states that "being suicidal is no excuse for doing nothing".
First, suicidal people don't do nothing, they play video games, they try to recover or plan their CTB, etc. What OP means by "doing nothing" is actually not working, the phrasing itself is a moral judgement, which implies that not working is equivalent to doing nothing, which in the context of OP means doing nothing of value.
But what is work if not a trade of an individual's time and energy for a share of society's production? In the context of a vast majority of suicidal people, this trade is unfavorable.
OP insists on suicidal people's sense of entitlement. But the reality is that society has a sense of entitlement to the individual's work. And not only did no one agree to being born, society actively forces the individual to stay alive.
It is morally obvious that if society is to force individuals who didn't agree to be part of it in the first place to stay alive, then society must in return, as a fair trade, give the individual the minimum means to live.

Very well said. Everyone should have a right to the necessaties of life.

 

[enduringwinter]

bruh i thought you meant survival instinct and spent a hot sec trying to understand what ur thread title means
thats not how we abbreviate maybe u dont hang around here

 

[looking4partner]

bruh i thought you meant survival instinct and spent a hot sec trying to understand what ur thread title means
thats not how we abbreviate maybe u dont hang around here

This confused me a lot when I first found this website. I wish they used a different abbreviation for "Survival Instinct" to be honest because it makes everything so much more confusing.

Don't worry, I don't consider you confrontational and I don't disagree with what you're saying.


I don't have a reason to keep the money, I am going to die. When it is no longer financially viable to care for me, it's going to be harder for my family to pose additional obstacles to my suicide, ie. hospitalization, etc.

I forgot to clarify, I wasn't referring to psychiatric hospitalization. I was actually meaning that there is a chance of someone becoming disabled- to a level where they will need help and the hospital will not always allow a pulling of the plug if the disability is not severe enough. And someone could become an intense level of disabled, but still not harmed enough for it to have fatal effects.

Also, even if the hospital does allow pulling the plug and the patient would have wanted that, some families will not allow the hospital to do so.

And it seems like it would be important not to use up all of their money in case something like this were to happen. Hopefully this is not too morbid.

 

[bugfart]

I think some do. In fact, I would go so far as to say that many people just do the absolute bare minimum, and use "depression" as an excuse to leave EVERYTHING else to someone they "love". My late husband was like that -- he went to work and came home and watch tv. That was it. EVERYTHING else was MY responsibility because he knew, at the end of the day, that if he just waited, I would take care of whatever it was -- cleaning the house, paying the bills, keeping up with the yard, ANYTHING that wasn't his employment.

At the end it was so bad that he even quit taking the meds that were keeping him alive, no doubt because he thought I was paying closer attention -- "getting sick" was his way of getting even with me when he was mad at me because he knew I would have to take care of him, on top of everything else -- than I was (what adult doesn't take their insulin) and it killed him. Some people really are just that bad.

It is an attention grab for some. I have also known people who were not suicidal but would make half-hearted attempts for the attention it got them. You know that thing they say -- any attention is good attention?? Some people really believe that shit.

I feel like there's a reason most of the people disagreeing in this thread are men and they're using alot of the same rhetoric of men both you and I have been abused by. We've been through similar and I feel for you, and I feel like people are missing the whole point of this post or just hammering in the same mentality of the manipulative people I'm talking about, because they probably treat people in their life the same way.

"No thanks I'm suicidal I just can't do anything, and I also can't do anything right :((."

This line right here describes so many people. There's a certain narcissism in self-hatred that's difficult to grapple with when you're suffering. I'm guilty of it myself at times :(

It is an easy cop out of any self reflection that I've seen alot of abusers use in my life, and people who actually have little to no genuine mental health problems use suicidality as a bargaining chip. But even if you feel this way, the first step is realizing you have a problem. And it depends on what you're using it on. I believe everyone has the right to necessities and I understand things like letting hygeine fall to the wayside a bit when one is depressed, appearance changing/weight gain, not a problem. That's natural. It's when someone is demanding money and resources from people forcefully with this bargaining chip or trying to come up with excuses to avoid accountability for harming others.

 

[Black_Knight]

I get it, at some point you have to either shit or get off the pot. But I'll be honest, it is genuinely hard to do anything at all when you don't feel like you have anything good to do it for. I know everyone works just to survive, stress is universal and life is always hard... but knowing that really only fuels the inertia

 

[bugfart]

I get it, at some point you have to either shit or get off the pot. But I'll be honest, it is genuinely hard to do anything at all when you don't feel like you have anything good to do it for. I know everyone works just to survive, stress is universal and life is always hard... but knowing that really only fuels the inertia

It is hard. And I believe everyone should have the means to live. I feel like a lot of people misinterpreted this post to slant me against disability/ against disabled people which isn't the case. It's been hard for everyone and some more than others, but we can only live with what we have and make do with a system that is unnatural for us humans

 

[martyrdom]

And it seems like it would be important not to use up all of their money in case something like this were to happen. Hopefully this is not too morbid.

That possibility is fine, because I don't care.

 

[Shiitake]

The best way i can describe it, what you wrote has passed by mind many many times, ive revised it thousands of times, but i still end up doing nothing and being nothing, do i complain? no, for most people like me complaining is a coping mechanism,
There was simply something that failed.

And how do you, as an external observer know what they are fully capable or not capable of doing? Depression and other mental illnesses can be extremely debilitating, like you said. Perhaps these people in your life really are disabled by their depression/suicidality to a degree where doing the work you believe they 'should' be doing is incredibly difficult and painful or impossible for them.

Also, you are not the judge of what people 'should' do. None of us chose to be born, and nobody is obligated to live life in a way which other people consider acceptable. If a person prefers to be a NEET, that choice is just as valid as your choice to work.

Here's a thought, maybe you should stop focusing on others' perceived shortcomings just because they choose to live life in a way which is not the 'correct' way according to your worldview, and just focus on yourself.

If someone chooses to be a neet, And they do complain about how miserable their life is cause of being a neet or their parents want them gone cause its a burden,
then they arent a neet by choice.

 

[CatLvr]

I feel like there's a reason most of the people disagreeing in this thread are men and they're using alot of the same rhetoric of men both you and I have been abused by. We've been through similar and I feel for you, and I feel like people are missing the whole point of this post or just hammering in the same mentality of the manipulative people I'm talking about, because they probably treat people in their life the same way.

It is an easy cop out of any self reflection that I've seen alot of abusers use in my life, and people who actually have little to no genuine mental health problems use suicidality as a bargaining chip. But even if you feel this way, the first step is realizing you have a problem. And it depends on what you're using it on. I believe everyone has the right to necessities and I understand things like letting hygeine fall to the wayside a bit when one is depressed, appearance changing/weight gain, not a problem. That's natural. It's when someone is demanding money and resources from people forcefully with this bargaining chip or trying to come up with excuses to avoid accountability for harming others.

I think you are right. And while I have learned my lesson -- my late husband was not the only man I have been involved with who treated me that way -- and I have to own the fact that I am drawn to a certain type of man. Childhood abuse stays with you in ways you don't start to understand until you are WAY WAY older than a child. But ... Like I said, because I am able to take a long hard look at myself and see the hand I had in allowing that abuse, I can also now put a stop to it. The single best thing I have ever done for myself (and my mental health) is to realize that I do not need another human being to be happy. I can be happy and content all by myself. Don't get me wrong -- I have friends. Not many but one or two. But I do not need a man in my life to be fulfilled. That realization has been liberating in ways I never dreamed possible.