[Hang setup] Siberian Hitch to attach rope to the trunk (!) of a spruce tree?

[Suizident]

Hello,

In one setup, only spruce trees are available as anchor points. Since
their branches are too weak, the rope should be attached to the trunk.

The recommendation was to attach the rope to the trunk of the
spruce tree using the Siberian Hitch. Then use a normal noose knot as a loop.

I couldn't find anything about the Siberian Hitch in the forum; apparently,
this setup hasn't been discussed here yet?

On the web, the Siberian Hitch is often recommended for "hanging" a
hammock, but it is inevitably suitable for heavy loads.

In this case, the special feature is that the force exerted
on the knot is such that it could theoretically slide down the trunk
even if the knot does not come undone. At least in theory, this could
be prevented by the Siberian Hitch tightening more and more
under load.


Can anyone comment on this? On the internet, the following are said
to be more resilient to the Siberian Hitch are the Taut-Line Hitch, the
Truckers Hitch, and the Highwayman's Hitch. However, these knots seem
to be intended more for tensioning a load than for hanging a load.

Hopefully, advanced users or knot and tree
experts will find this thread! :D

Many thanks and best regards,
Suizident

 

[AreWeWinning]

It's counterintuitive, I know, but hitches do not slide down on tree trunks – they hold perfectly well against a downward pull. There is enough friction between the tree's surface and the rope to prevent them from sliding down.

Arborists use similar setups on a daily basis for catching heavy logs as they fall, which creates a lot more force than what a human weighs. Check the following videos. (The links open at the relevant times.)

• A Running Bowline with an extra loop around the tree below it: How to rig sections of trunk onto itself | Arborist Rigging techniques
• Another example of a Running Bowline with an extra loop around the tree below it: Negative rigging BASICS - Full break down of how and why to negative rig a spar, with many tips
• A Running Bowline with an extra loop around the tree above it. In this case, the whole setup is upside down, since he'll cut the tree at the bottom, so the rope will pull it upward: BIG RIGGING!

You don't necessarily need a Running Bowline. Any hitch that holds well against an angled pull will work, for example:

• An Anchor Hitch with an added stopper knot. You can also add an extra Half Hitch to the Anchor Hitch – which is basically just repeating the last step one more time – and then add a stopper knot.
• A Round Turn & Two Half Hitches with a stopper knot, or with an extra Half Hitch (making it three in total) and a stopper knot. This will flex more, but actually grips even better. Just make sure you pull on it and pre-tension it before applying full load.
• You can create a noose by tying a small Overhand Loop Knot and pulling the load end through it.
• Timber Hitch. If you use the Timber Hitch, possibly make more than three turns. Make 5 or 6, and make sure they go halfway around the tree, all the way to the back. I've seen this in a YouTube video, and it makes perfect sense.

I've tried these myself, and it works perfectly fine. Arborists use a Running Bowline because it's easy to tie and untie. But for us, it doesn't really matter what hitch is used, as long as it's secure.

Whichever hitch you use, add an extra loop around the tree below the main hitch.

Here are two examples below. One shows an Anchor Hitch, and the other one shows a Round Turn & Two Half Hitches. (There are no stopper knots on the images, but one can and should be added.)

Spoiler: Anchor Hitch with an extra Half Hitch, and with an extra loop around the tree

Spoiler: Round Turn & Two Half Hitches with an extra Half Hitch, and with an extra loop around the tree

Edit: I'm not familiar with the Siberian Hitch, so I can't comment on how secure it is (which is the main concern here).

 

[Suizident]

It's counterintuitive, I know, but hitches do not slide down on tree trunks – they hold perfectly well against a downward pull. There is enough friction between the tree's surface and the rope to prevent them from sliding down.

Arborists use similar setups on a daily basis for catching heavy logs as they fall, which creates a lot more force than what a human weighs. Check the following videos. (The links open at the relevant times.)

• A Running Bowline with an extra loop around the tree below it: How to rig sections of trunk onto itself | Arborist Rigging techniques
• Another example of a Running Bowline with an extra loop around the tree below it: Negative rigging BASICS - Full break down of how and why to negative rig a spar, with many tips
• A Running Bowline with an extra loop around the tree above it. In this case, the whole setup is upside down, since he'll cut the tree at the bottom, so the rope will pull it upward: BIG RIGGING!

You don't necessarily need a Running Bowline. Any hitch that holds well against an angled pull will work, for example:

• An Anchor Hitch with an added stopper knot. You can also add an extra Half Hitch to the Anchor Hitch – which is basically just repeating the last step one more time – and then add a stopper knot.
• A Round Turn & Two Half Hitches with a stopper knot, or with an extra Half Hitch (making it three in total) and a stopper knot. This will flex more, but actually grips even better. Just make sure you pull on it and pre-tension it before applying full load.
• You can create a noose by tying a small Overhand Loop Knot and pulling the load end through it.
• Timber Hitch. If you use the Timber Hitch, possibly make more than three turns. Make 5 or 6, and make sure they go halfway around the tree, all the way to the back. I've seen this in a YouTube video, and it makes perfect sense.

I've tried these myself, and it works perfectly fine. Arborists use a Running Bowline because it's easy to tie and untie. But for us, it doesn't really matter what hitch is used, as long as it's secure.

Whichever hitch you use, add an extra loop around the tree below the main hitch.

Here are two examples below. One shows an Anchor Hitch, and the other one shows a Round Turn & Two Half Hitches. (There are no stopper knots on the images, but one can and should be added.)

Spoiler: Anchor Hitch with an extra Half Hitch, and with an extra loop around the tree

View attachment 176814

Spoiler: Round Turn & Two Half Hitches with an extra Half Hitch, and with an extra loop around the tree

View attachment 176815

Edit: I'm not familiar with the Siberian Hitch, so I can't comment on how secure it is (which is the main concern here).

Hello,

Thank you for this detailed answer. I need to work through this step by step.


-----

What strikes me about the Siberian Hitch is that it has two loops at the end. An "upper" loop, which is used to attach it to the object in question. And a "lower loop," see the picture 5 below. This one is obviously very loose and can come undone at any time.

I'm wondering what the function of this lower loop is?

Many thanks and best regards,
Suizident

View attachment SIBERIAN-HITCH-DIAGRAM-STEP-BY-STEP-1.jpg.webp
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UPDATE:

The more I think about it, the less sense I see in the lower loop.

By forming a loop with the lower end of the rope, the Siberian Hitch can come undone, e.g. if the end of the rope slips upwards and the lower loop is thereby loosened.

Why not just let the lower end of the rope hang down instead of bringing it back up again to form a loop?

I don't understand the purpose of this lower loop.
------

UPDATE:

The more I think about it, the less sense I see in the lower loop.

By forming a loop with the lower end of the rope, the Siberian Hitch can come undone, e.g. if the end of the rope slips upwards and the lower loop is thereby loosened.

Why not just let the lower end of the rope hang down instead of bringing it back up again to form a loop?

I don't understand the purpose of this lower loop.

 

[AreWeWinning]

By forming a loop with the lower end of the rope, the Siberian Hitch can come undone, e.g. if the end of the rope slips upwards and the lower loop is thereby loosened.

Why not just let the lower end of the rope hang down instead of bringing it back up again to form a loop?

I don't understand the purpose of this lower loop.

It's a quick-release hitch (also called a slipped hitch). The purpose of the "lower loop" is to provide a mechanism to quickly untie the hitch. There is no other purpose for it. If you pull on the tail end, the whole knot collapses and comes undone. This is useful for tying down a tent or tying a hammock to something, because you can take them down easily. But it also makes the knot less secure.

There are other slipped knots as well, which have a similar mechanism. For example, the Slipped Buntline Hitch, the Tumble Hitch, and many others. Or the Slip Knot, which is just a slipped (quick-release) version of the Overhand Knot.

You probably found the Siberian Hitch, because you were looking for knots to tie on a tree. But there's nothing special about the Siberian Hitch that makes it more suitable for a tree than any other knot. If you want a knot that cinches around the tree tightly, you can just use a Noose Knot + stopper knot (a.k.a an Arbor Knot or Canadian Jam Knot), or a Poacher's Knot. It's not wrong to use those, but not necessary either.

You would naturally think that a hitch has to cinch around the tree's trunk tightly to hold. However, this is not true. If you don't believe me, you can go to a tree and try. The tree's surface provides enough friction, even if the tree doesn't have thick bark. The size of the tree doesn't make much difference either. Note that this doesn't work on objects with smooth surfaces, e.g. metal poles – in which case a type of hitch called a friction hitch is needed – but it works perfectly on trees.

If you want to make it more secure, add an extra loop around the tree below the main hitch, as shown in the videos I linked earlier. You can also check the Killick Hitch, which is just a Timber Hitch with an extra loop around the tree below it.

 

[Gustav Hartmann]

In one setup, only spruce trees are available as anchor points. Since
their branches are too weak, the rope should be attached to the trunk.

If you sling your rope above one of the weak branches around the trunk, the weak branches will be strong enough to prevent the rope from sliding down. Than you only have to use the type of knot you would use to fix a rope at a horizontal beam.

On the web, the Siberian Hitch is often recommended for "hanging" a
hammock, but it is inevitably suitable for heavy loads.

A hammock causes a horizontal force component that increases the friction between rope and trunk up to self-locking. Step irons also use this horizontal force componenet to create a self-locking effect. I doubt that there is enough friction and self-locking if you only tie a rope around a trunk.