Venting 'brains fully develop by 25' is not a hard scientific rule or law -- it's a generalization.

[Kalista]

this age marker is not a hard scientific rule or law -- it's a generalization. this assumes ALL BRAINS fully mature by 25, when it simply isn't true. development varies from person to person and brains can fully develop MUCH earlier than 25, while many also never fully develop. people over the age of 25 make plenty of impulsive, irrational, or emotionally charged decisions.

while the impulsivity and risk-taking behaviors are active and may still be developing, that does not automatically invalidate a person's right to make their own decisions -- regardless of whether those choices are made calmly or impulsively.
this age marker is often used to do just that -- invalidate early-life decisions. a blanket safeguard used to block your decisions 'just in case' they disagree with societal expectations. it removes absolute individual freedom before this age.

people tend to use this age milestone as a moral safeguard. but this isn't about them. it's about you.
it's not about some 'collective moral debate' -- it's about the individual having full control over their own life.

 

[NitroussBlue]

this age marker is not a hard scientific rule or law -- it's a generalization. this assumes ALL BRAINS fully mature by 25, when it simply isn't true. development varies from person to person and brains can fully develop MUCH earlier than 25, while many also never fully develop. people over the age of 25 make plenty of impulsive, irrational, or emotionally charged decisions.

while the impulsivity and risk-taking behaviors are active and may still be developing, that does not automatically invalidate a person's right to make their own decisions -- regardless of whether those choices are made calmly or impulsively.
this age marker is often used to do just that -- invalidate early-life decisions. a blanket safeguard used to block your decisions 'just in case' they disagree with societal expectations. it removes absolute individual freedom before this age.

people tend to use this age milestone as a moral safeguard. but this isn't about them. it's about you.
it's not about some 'collective moral debate' -- it's about the individual having full control over their own life.

I have been thinking about this lately. Im turning 25 in 4 months. What fully develops is your prefrontal lobe but it remains plastic, as some other areas of your brain. Your character may change throughout your life based on your experience, events and other factors

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

this is all my opinion.

it's to infantalize us more and say " well you're 24 you can't possibly decide that you want suicide you're brain is not formed yet , you're a child"

junko furuta was 16 when a gang kidnapped her and tortured her for 44 days of hell . she begged her captors to kill her. so they want us to believe she couldn't tell Death was better than living like that because "her brain wasn't fully formed yet"

my point is that the brain can produce that level of pain . her brain wasn't different. this example anyone can clearly understand she is in torture.

but many conditions can produce extreme suffering and only the individual expereincing such suffering can decide . it's the brain that creates unending constant unbearable pain.

there is no gurantee of anyone not falling into a trap of unbearable pain or suffering tomorow another example is getting in a car accident where most of the skin is burned off in a car fire . or other fire. but again these are physical examples to show but sometimes pain and conditions that are very rate or not obvious or even detectable can cause unbearable suffering or pain

why do i have to live another minute anyway even if i'm not in pain? i don't have to . but to be in constant unbearable pain or suffering and then someone to tell me i can't leave that's totally illogical.

only the individual experiencing the suffering can know or decide if they want to live or not . regardless of age any sentient animal inluding a human can at any second get an intolerable pain of many kinds. intolerabl or unbearable pain where the pain won't stop every second. why would a human suffering unbearable pain have to keep suffering every second for hours, days, years? why ? because they say you're this age you'r 24, you're 17 you're brain is not formed yet you need to keep suffering unbearable pain every second ? why ? can someone answer me why? why is that logical since we are all going to die anyway soon too because life is short. And there is no purpose to life also on top of that. plus a human is just cells, an animal chemical reactions , a machine.

1.5 millon people attemp suicide per year in the U.S.. alone showing how bad life is and how anyone can suffer unbearably. they want us to think all these people including all here on this site are mentally ill or evil Death cult members .

any human can fall into a trap of non stop constant unbearable pain the next day the next hour. so to continue to live without an instant exit like bottle of Nembutal or cyanide pills or fentanyl as an escape is really risky.

in hospital
Me: I'm in unbearable pain . kill me give me a shot of morphine or fentanly . i didn';t know such pain existed. i can't stand it i've been suffering for 30 minutes straight.
doctor: we can't do that it's a crime. i can't see anything wrong with you. i think youre making it up just to get drugs. i'm going to order you locked up in a mental hospital for being suicidal wanting to give up the greatest gift life.

this age 25 bs is one of the worst lies imo. it's so bad and so evil that just this one would be another reason for me to kill myself .

there are many other big lies. but one that many here can see all the lies about suicide and suicidal people . for example that someone wanting to kill themselves must be "mentally ill"

i think a lot of this psychiatry is them enforcing their suicide prohibition state, making us conform . inprison those that think differently that dare question that "life is sacred" lock them up in mental hosptitals , drug them brainwash them until the heretics think right that you have to fight to live under any cirmcumstances.

all these and more including the 25 lie an attempt of controlling us more especially the suicidal people. it's to infantalize us more and say well you're 24 you can't possibly decide that you want suicide you're brain is not formed yet "

i think why is the magic 18 your'e an "adult" now? why 18? why 25 . they have everyone believing "you're 17 now your' a child . ok you had a birthdate 18 now youre an adult. wtf why do people believe everything whithout thinking or research ? biology seems to say at age 13 a human can reproduce so that seems liek an adult to me . childhood is a creation of recent times. people thrughout history used to start working at age 5 or earlier on farms etc., marry at 12 in many cultures , many kings were below 18 .

they want to say someone age 16 ( take Junko Furuta who begged her kidnappers torturers to kill her) can't possibly make the decision to suicide because her brain wasn't formed completely yet all decisions must be made for her making us all slaves till 25 now .


imo a human age 25 is already an ape expiring . other real research shows the brain starts to decline at 25.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I do sort of agree with this. I'm not convinced that my ideation was so different- even as a child. It started young for me- age 10. I'm not so convinced my feelings were so different aged 14, 18, 25, 35, 45. I suppose I recognise the need for some umbrella safe guarding though. I'd be more inclined to go with 18 though. We are allowed to make other life changing decisions by then.

For me- it's more about situation though. If a child is experiencing ideation, I imagine there's a fair chance their home environment is a factor. The hope turning 18 is that they get the opportunity to move away. For me- it's not just about the physicality of the brain- it's more that- if they're lucky, their life could change substantially for the better if they are able to move away from toxic environments. It definitely helped me for a while. Obviously though, it won't be the same for everyone. Some may not have the finances or ability to work to do that too.

I suppose part of the argument is that, being so young, the person simply can't know whether all possibilities in life will be intolerable to them. Of course, the same argument can be made for adults but, we've had more time to try out different things by that point.

I also know personally that emotionally speaking- I wasn't so good at coping with things when I was younger. I can be one to make mountains out of molehills in general but, I did it so much more when I was young. I suppose experience teaches us to deal with situations. Plus, we learn that things move on. Things that seem catastrophic at the time eventually just fade into obscurity. I think we can learn to take (some) things in our stride better.

It's not so much the cognitive ability to be able choose death. It's more to do with the emotional resilience/ capability to cope with life that I think can mature. The argument/ question being- will their brain mature so that they are better able to cope and preferably, enjoy life? Is it because they feel overwhelmed at the moment, but they may mature to be able to cope better? Again- not everyone will.

Of course, the question still remains- is it worth it for someone to hang around? That's impossible to know for sure. It might well be for some, not for others.

 

[Darkover]

if you can go to war at 18 you should be allowed to kill yourself at 18

 

[EvisceratedJester]

junko furuta was 16 when a gang kidnapped her and tortured her for 44 days of hell . she begged her captors to kill her. so they want us to believe she couldn't tell Death was better than living like that because "her brain wasn't fully formed yet"

I'm sorry, but this example is ridiculous. This isn't a case of someone coming to the natural conclusion that living just isn't appealing to them. This is a case of someone who begged for death due to being in the middle of being severely tortured. It's kind of like if you were trapped on the top storey of a building that was on fire. If your only option was to jump out the window, then you might just do it. Not because you like the idea of jumping out of the window or because you feel like that decision is the right one for you, but because it's between that and burning alive.

Junko begging to be killed was likely due to her losing hope of being rescued and feeling like her only other best bet to escape her situation would have been through death. She likely didn't have an actual desire to die, let alone a history of suicidal ideation. She likely chose to beg for death because she felt forced, not because she truly wanted to. This is a weird and awful example and I feel like using such a tragedy to support your views is kind of cruel.

RTD only works under the guise that we are making sure that the people who choose it are doing so because it is what is right for them, not because they feel forced to. Hence why there needs to be more done alongside RTD, such as making medical and mental healthcare more accessible, providing more social services for those part of vulnerable demographics (e.g., the poor), addressing social issues (e.g., racism, transphobia, homophobia, etc), and so on.

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

I'm sorry, but this example is ridiculous. This isn't a case of someone coming to the natural conclusion that living just isn't appealing to them. This is a case of someone who begged for death due to being in the middle of being severely tortured. It's kind of like if you were trapped on the top storey of a building that was on fire. If your only option was to jump out the window, then you might just do it. Not because you like the idea of jumping out of the window or because you feel like that decision is the right one for you, but because it's between that and burning alive.

Junko begging to be killed was likely due to her losing hope of being rescued and feeling like her only other best bet to escape her situation would have been through death. She likely didn't have an actual desire to die, let alone a history of suicidal ideation. She likely chose to beg for death because she felt forced, not because she truly wanted to. This is a weird and awful example and I feel like using such a tragedy to support your views is kind of cruel.

RTD only works under the guise that we are making sure that the people who choose it are doing so because it is what is right for them, not because they feel forced to. Hence why there needs to be more done alongside RTD, such as making medical and mental healthcare more accessible, providing more social services for those part of vulnerable demographics (e.g., the poor), addressing social issues (e.g., racism, transphobia, homophobia, etc), and so on.

my point is that the brain can produce that level of pain . her brain wasn't different. this example anyone can clearly understand she is in torture. ]

but many conditions can produce extreme suffering and only the individual expereincing such suffering can decide . it's the brain that creates unending constant unbearable pain.

there is no gurantee of anyone not falling into a trap of unbearable pain or suffering tomorow another example is getting in a car accident where most of the skin is burned off in a car fire . or other fire. but again these are physical examples to show but sometimes pain and conditions that are very rate or not obvious or even detectable can cause unbearable suffering or pain

why do i have to live another minute anyway even if i'm not in pain? i don't have to . but to be in constant unbearable pain or suffering and then someone to tell me i can't leave that's totally illogical.

only the individual experiencing the suffering can know or decide if they want to live or not . regardless of age any sentient animal inluding a human can at any second get an intolerable pain of many kinds. intolerabl or unbearable pain where the pain won't stop every second. why would a human suffering unbearable pain have to keep suffering every second for hours, days, years? why ? because they say you're this age you'r 24, you're 17 you're brain is not formed yet you need to keep suffering unbearable pain every second ? why ? can someone answer me why? why is that logical since we are all going to die anyway soon too because life is short. And there is no purpose to life also on top of that. plus a human is just cells, an animal chemical reactions , a machine.

1.5 millon people attemp suicide per year in the U.S.. alone showing how bad life is and how anyone can suffer unbearably. they want us to think all these people including all here on this site are mentally ill or evil Death cult members .

 

[Doll Steak]

this is all my opinion.

it's to infantalize us more and say " well you're 24 you can't possibly decide that you want suicide you're brain is not formed yet , you're a child"

there are many other big lies. but one that many here can see all the lies about suicide and suicidal people . for example that someone wanting to kill themselves must be "mentally ill"

That's Insane to use the 25 argument in regards to suicide, makes no fuckin sense in so many scenarios, EPSECIALLY the one you listed. It also completely invalidates someone's issues.

Honestly, a Lot of the time suicidal people ARE mentally ill, suffering from things as terrible as schizophrenia, to bipolar disorder, major depression, etc, its just mental hell for the person. I realize for humans its hard to see someone go, we are nearly the only species capable of forming such deep meaningful bonds. Unfortunetly , those same bonds are terrifying and paralyzing when lost. This is why many are against suicide, the brains constant ever hungry want and need for something. We are inherently wired to preserve human life, including are own, it just takes a great deal of suffering to dismantle it. In cold hard truth, everyone should have the right to die, I've come to terms with the thoughts of those who I love dying, because Id rather know someone is gone and nonexistent than existent and suffering in futility any longer.

In regards to the "they must be mentally ill" argument for suicide.. Say for example, someone is poor, hungry, homeless. no family or friends, there's just no way out other than death. That person is NOT mentally ill, that is basic human fight or flight instincts at play in my eyes. Think also, the people who jumped from the burning towers of 9/11 were not mentally ill, rather they saw their situation for how it was, either prolonged pain, or death. That is basic human judgement, will, and instinct.

existence is a real fucking bitch all around, eh? Never a dull fucking moment.


My 2 cents, might just be an incoherent ramble though. Peace man.

 

[permanently tired]

RTD only works under the guise that we are making sure that the people who choose it are doing so because it is what is right for them, not because they feel forced to. Hence why there needs to be more done alongside RTD, such as making medical and mental healthcare more accessible, providing more social services for those part of vulnerable demographics (e.g., the poor), addressing social issues (e.g., racism, transphobia, homophobia, etc), and so on.

If racism hasn't been solved in millennia, why would any other social issues be? It's not even worth hoping. Ppl will continue to make society a shit place for anyone who isn't part of their group.