Discussion Are there ever any positives to suicide?

[OzymandiAsh]

I wouldn't go as far as saying that it makes the world a better place, most of the time it probably does not. But sometimes good things come from suicide, it can be eye opening for others and lead to new laws or changes of attitudes. For example the Arab spring developing out of Bouazizi setting himself on fire.

Usually, suicide is a fundamental rejection of society, the world and the status quo, and that rejection can be so raw and powerful that it leads to positive changes.

What are your thoughts?

 

[soul2realm]

I don't know how to put in words, but suicide certainly can be seen as another way life ends. Its aftermath is similar to any other form of dying. But I think suicide can also be seen as a compassionate form of death, if it was legalized and be allowed to do peacefully.
I was watching a youtube video where a psychic medium had similar beliefs and even compared it to a karmic balance of some sorts.

 

[FuneralCry]

Yes, for me ceasing to exist is all that's positive, for me ceasing to exist is the positive solution to find peace from the suffering, torture and cruelty of existing where there is no limit as to how much one can be tortured, never suffering again is all I could ever hope for.

I just wish for true permanent peace from this existence I just always saw as the most terrible mistake and there's just so much evil in existing, to me existence is an abomination that just causes harm torturing existing beings and causing endless amounts of suffering with existing beings in agony every second.

I'll always see existing as just being suffering all for the sake of it, it's just so terrible to me how this existence was imposed at all, this existence of dreadful unnecessary suffering never should had been imposed, to me it existence truly is always the problem, to suffer in this existence is the most terrible undeserved punishment to me and I find it horrific and terrifying how a human can be tortured in this existence for decades longer just to face the agony of old age, for me ceasing to exist would be suffering and torture prevention.

 

[badatparties]

Yes, for me ceasing to exist is all that's positive, for me ceasing to exist is the positive solution to find peace from the suffering, torture and cruelty of existing where there is no limit as to how much one can be tortured, never suffering again is all I could ever hope for.

I just wish for true permanent peace from this existence I just always saw as the most terrible mistake and there's just so much evil in existing, to me existence is an abomination that just causes harm torturing existing beings and causing endless amounts of suffering with existing beings in agony every second.

I'll always see existing as just being suffering all for the sake of it, it's just so terrible to me how this existence was imposed at all, this existence of dreadful unnecessary suffering never should had been imposed, to me it existence truly is always the problem, to suffer in this existence is the most terrible undeserved punishment to me and I find it horrific and terrifying how a human can be tortured in this existence for decades longer just to face the agony of old age, for me ceasing to exist would be suffering and torture prevention.

No offense funeral cry, but your copy paste style of just blatantly supporting any and all suicide without any elaboration is a bit disturbing. You've been on this site since 2020 with an average of 22 posts a day. That's just straight up copy paste.

It looks like you're just encouraging suicide for the sake of it.

 

[OzymandiAsh]

No offense funeral cry, but your copy paste style of just blatantly supporting any and all suicide without any elaboration is a bit disturbing. You've been on this site since 2020 with an average of 22 posts a day. That's just straight up copy paste.

It looks like you're just encouraging suicide for the sake of it.

I've often been tempted to say something along these lines to FuneralCry, but thought better of it. There are some signs in the posts to indicate that they are not exactly copy pasted, but obviously they do reuse a tonne of wordings and phrases with no new thought, just constant complaining which does get tedious. I do wonder whether they will ever attempt to CTB but it didn't feel right to ask lol.

 

[muu]

I wouldn't go as far as saying that it makes the world a better place, most of the time it probably does not. But sometimes good things come from suicide, it can be eye opening for others and lead to new laws or changes of attitudes. For example the Arab spring developing out of Bouazizi setting himself on fire.

Usually, suicide is a fundamental rejection of society, the world and the status quo, and that rejection can be so raw and powerful that it leads to positive changes.

What are your thoughts?

well, as i'm disabled and chronically ill, i see suicide as a positive for those of us so sick of being sick and that don't want to recover. some people will say its eugenics, i say if the person wants out they should be allowed out in a peaceful way. we put down sick and suffering animals, right? we humans are animals, yet we feel a bias towards our own species to keep them alive. isn't that inhumane? i've gone on a similar tirade on here before, so i'll stop it there.

but yes, i do see suicide as having some positives, especially for the individual committing the act. as for everybody else, it's likely the complete opposite. but only two or so generations will remember your existence and then you'll be gone like the wind just like everybody else. nothing matters.

 

[Cyc]

I've often been tempted to say something along these lines to FuneralCry, but thought better of it. There are some signs in the posts to indicate that they are not exactly copy pasted, but obviously they do reuse a tonne of wordings and phrases with no new thought, just constant complaining which does get tedious. I do wonder whether they will ever attempt to CTB but it didn't feel right to ask lol.

I can see how it would a bit tedious at times, but we don't know her circumstances so we can't judge

 

[Forveleth]

Happy people do not kill themselves. It takes a lot of emotional torment for a human to override basic instincts and end their life. I see it as an end to suffering, which can be a positive.

 

[OzymandiAsh]

well, as i'm disabled and chronically ill, i see suicide as a positive for those of us so sick of being sick and that don't want to recover. some people will say its eugenics, i say if the person wants out they should be allowed out in a peaceful way. we put down sick and suffering animals, right? we humans are animals, yet we feel a bias towards our own species to keep them alive. isn't that inhumane? i've gone on a similar tirade on here before, so i'll stop it there.

but yes, i do see suicide as having some positives, especially for the individual committing the act. as for everybody else, it's likely the complete opposite. but only two or so generations will remember your existence and then you'll be gone like the wind just like everybody else. nothing matters.

I am also disabled, and I agree that there are definite positives to suicide for the person themselves in many cases, but when I say positives I mean positives for other people / the world / society, in this thread.

 

[callmeskin]

I wouldn't go as far as saying that it makes the world a better place, most of the time it probably does not. But sometimes good things come from suicide, it can be eye opening for others and lead to new laws or changes of attitudes. For example the Arab spring developing out of Bouazizi setting himself on fire.

Usually, suicide is a fundamental rejection of society, the world and the status quo, and that rejection can be so raw and powerful that it leads to positive changes.

What are your thoughts?

I think the act of suicide could be really powerful in the sense of what you're explaining, like Bouazizi it made a statement because most people who haven't had an encounter with suicidal tendencies or any understanding of it, won't be able to comprehend the act of self sacrifice for the sake of good. Maybe it's because humans tend to have selfish tendencies but if you really look at it then yes suicide could be the ultimate way of sending a message because it's in ur very nature to try your best to stay alive and going against that biological instinct takes a lot of power and desperation.

 

[Lucid7972]

I never get framings such as "good" and "positive", positive to the world? if life is meaningless in general, what significance does making-the-world-a-better-place have?

 

[doomedbynarrative]

I've often been tempted to say something along these lines to FuneralCry, but thought better of it. There are some signs in the posts to indicate that they are not exactly copy pasted, but obviously they do reuse a tonne of wordings and phrases with no new thought, just constant complaining which does get tedious. I do wonder whether they will ever attempt to CTB but it didn't feel right to ask lol.

Trying to say this as kindly as I possibly can because text talking tones come across wrong. Absolutely no hate or anger or anything to you or others.

It rubs me the wrong way that people talk about FC out in the open like this as if they aren't here (though I am not saying it's a good or right thing to do that privately either :/ ) This possibly only adds to the misery they already feel. If you take the time to ask as others have or even look at FC's profile, they use this site to vent as they do not have access to their preferred ctb method.

And I think that's fine. Even if their posts rephrase the same sort of thoughts similarly over and over. That is what FC wants to do and that is with FC will do. Some folks need to let the pain out or let it flow and this is one of the few places where it is acceptable to do so. I don't see any other site that is remotely as free and compassionate as this one is and most people don't have someone in their lives that they can express what FC does to without the risk of being sectioned (which is often another form of torture for people).

If it does bother people, I really do encourage the use of the ignore function. But all in all, I really think it's fine. Again, no hate to you or badatparties at all and maybe I am too softhearted. But I couldn't not say something. I think FC deserves just as much empathy and compassion as the rest of us here do, even if they are unconventional in their way of expressing themselves.

 

[fedup1982]

There was an article saying Labour have buried stats that show an increase in trans suicides recently.

If they're prepared to bury it, it says 3 things to me:

1. Suicides can be powerful catalysts for change

2. So they will often be buried to preserve the status quo

3. If they're prepared to bury things like this, there is no societal benefit to suicides in the way of affecting social change

I'm not saying anyone in the following situation should kill themselves, but many suicidal people are on benefits and that's a little bit of money that society saves. But they lose a person who will have some social ties, and in balance, it's better for society for that person not to CTB

 

[EmptyBottle]

TW: positive perspective of CTB

In a cold, logical sense, it can:

reduce the effect of climate change (assuming one's carbon footprint is greater than the emissions saved... which can be false if someone is actively helping the environment through legislation, campaigning, etc)

prevent conditions from deteriorating (tho it also stops future good parts of one's existence), and teach life a "lesson".

PS: CTB has strong downsides, including causing lots of grief, there are other ways to achieve the above (eg invest in climate action, and some other actions)

 

[Forever Sleep]

I remember at the end of the HBO series 'Chernobyl', they said the suicide of Valery Legasov, two years and a day after the disaster shon new light on his insistance that other reactors must be retrofitted to make them safer.

Obviously, that was a TV series so- it's not necessarily factual but, I think some suicides or, groups of suicides can highlight social issues, poor working and living conditions etc. Obviously- by observing suicide trends, we can observe which groups of people are really struggling. I wonder how much it changes things though. Because I suppose, the majority still survive under those conditions.

I'd say there's obviously a benefit to us- if we are able to escape a life that has become mostly suffering.

I suppose it depends on our character too. I've become less kind as I've grown older and more bitter/ resentful. I wish I could have gone while I was still a nicer person! It's like that saying: 'Die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain.'

There are more extremes of that. People who feel compelled to hurt others. I actually remember a member here who was plagued with sadistic and violent thoughts. He was so afraid that one day, he would actually hurt someone that he did actually CTB. Of course, all the pro-life people would be jumping up and down about that- insisting that treatment would have been the better alternative. And of course- it would have. But- he tried that. They treated him pretty much with contempt it sounded like. And it obviously hadn't worked.

I suppose if someone is almost definitely going to hurt others, isn't it 'better' they only hurt themselves? It's kind of like murder/ suicide vs. suicide.

I suppose there's an environmental argument too. I feel like my suicide will definitely benefit nature. I generate so much toxic waste via just living and working. I prefer nature and animals to cities and humans. I think the fewer there are of us, the better chance nature has of surviving.

 

[badatparties]

I suppose there's an environmental argument too. I feel like my suicide will definitely benefit nature. I generate so much toxic waste via just living and working. I prefer nature and animals to cities and humans. I think the fewer there are of us, the better chance nature has of surviving.

Nature is a very brutal meat grinder for wild animals. They die of predation, starvation, sickness, and exposure all day, everyday. This whole romantic notion of humans going extinct so animals can thrive is insanely foolish.

 

[idontknowwhatiam]

No offense funeral cry, but your copy paste style of just blatantly supporting any and all suicide without any elaboration is a bit disturbing. You've been on this site since 2020 with an average of 22 posts a day. That's just straight up copy paste.

It looks like you're just encouraging suicide for the sake of it.

I had to block him. Same nonsensical stuff copied and pasted. Rant over

 

[TAW122]

I was thinking of making a similar thread, but since this thread is here, I'll just give my two cents. I think, from an objective viewpoint (the universe is pointless and meaning in life is only assumed and prescribed by the sentient beings that give it such meaning and value, aka 'humans'), yes, there are positives. Also since I believe in pro-choice/right to die (on one's own terms), I believe that if one is able to exit on their own terms, they should be able to choose it freely to avoid future potential suffering and generally more bad events (which amplify in severity as one ages, into middle age, twilight years - assuming other causes haven't already happened in the decades prior to that).

I also agree with @Forever Sleep perspective about a potential positive of CTB'ing, being that one takes out oneself before they cause harm to others, and ironically, many pro-lifers (as she mentioned) naively and ignorantly believe that the broken and suicidal can be 'fixed' or do everything to fix that while ignoring that (until something does happen and it becomes a headline/news story, then they criticize and condemn the perpetrator for their actions... So yes, that is a good perspective and also the quote "Die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain," from -Harvey Dent in the Batman movies and such, it really made sense and agreed with that. At least that is how I see people who have CTB'd or so on their own terms, prior to (potential) harm to others. In a weird and cynical sense, they kind of 'saved the world' and I personally think pro-lifers should be grateful, but they would instead go about their entire CTB prevention advocacy and spiel.

Anyways, ultimately, I see it in our own best interests to leave sentience as soon as we see fit, be it young, middle aged, or elderly, as long as one isn't enjoying sentience or life, then that would be a strong sign to leave before nature and/or other causes take it's course.

 

[DeadManLiving]

It can certainly become a case of epic tragedy that produces positive change out of a destructive outcome being one of the rarest natural anomalies. Word of death spreads faster than the speed of anything.

But the narrative control framing surrounding its cause (and ultimate downstream effects) are very difficult to control except for cluster cases or with intricate advanced planning while most cases are impulsive and elusive or in some cases suppressed.

Usually the media reports only in cases where the utility value is appreciable for worthy victims, and even then as something to the effect of "Mentally Ill person struggled with X, Y or Z ..." as the good cause without specification as to the real cause. Often because LE seizes the notes or info gap or narrative control. But behind the veil policymakers weigh in the true casual mechanisms.

 

[OzymandiAsh]

I was thinking of making a similar thread, but since this thread is here, I'll just give my two cents. I think, from an objective viewpoint (the universe is pointless and meaning in life is only assumed and prescribed by the sentient beings that give it such meaning and value, aka 'humans'), yes, there are positives. Also since I believe in pro-choice/right to die (on one's own terms), I believe that if one is able to exit on their own terms, they should be able to choose it freely to avoid future potential suffering and generally more bad events (which amplify in severity as one ages, into middle age, twilight years - assuming other causes haven't already happened in the decades prior to that).

I also agree with @Forever Sleep perspective about a potential positive of CTB'ing, being that one takes out oneself before they cause harm to others, and ironically, many pro-lifers (as she mentioned) naively and ignorantly believe that the broken and suicidal can be 'fixed' or do everything to fix that while ignoring that (until something does happen and it becomes a headline/news story, then they criticize and condemn the perpetrator for their actions... So yes, that is a good perspective and also the quote "Die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain," from -Harvey Dent in the Batman movies and such, it really made sense and agreed with that. At least that is how I see people who have CTB'd or so on their own terms, prior to (potential) harm to others. In a weird and cynical sense, they kind of 'saved the world' and I personally think pro-lifers should be grateful, but they would instead go about their entire CTB prevention advocacy and spiel.

Anyways, ultimately, I see it in our own best interests to leave sentience as soon as we see fit, be it young, middle aged, or elderly, as long as one isn't enjoying sentience or life, then that would be a strong sign to leave before nature and/or other causes take it's course.

Good point. In many cases suicidal people are stuck in an awkward place where they know that if they continue to live, it will be just as harmful if not more harmful than CTB, for others as well as for oneself.

Also with suicide being such a powerful gesture and signal, it can increase compassion and empathy in others.

 

[impossible_victory]

The only positive to suicide is you free yourself from pain, i don't think people care, lawmakers care, or society cares

 

[cowboypants]

I see more in a neutral way, I think It's nor positive or negative. It's not beneficial for society to lose a tax paying individual. Whether you are on benefits are not, there would be an ecosystem benefiting off you. It can potentially traumatize your closed ones.

I do think we need rights to die. Right now, there's just so much walls built to keep us off. If I can pump any hormones I want, then I should be able to do what I want. If they lax it, it can be a catalyst for stronger policies as someone has said above. Society can't keep painless methods from people for long either way.

But there will be one set of side who won't care about people and another does. Maybe it's black and white thinking, IDK. But let's say if young or older demographic are committing suicides high in a country it can even get international media attention pointing to the bad policies. Like the small drops of water can break a wall after a time. At the end IDK it's all meaningless and the fight between good and bad. I believe strongly society shouldn't let people die like this until we get to that stage. It's not like we have limited resources in this world or universe for that matter. It's an irony of humankind

 

[Unlucky777]

Yes. The end of suffering for the person who commits.

 

[Cauliflour]

 

[DeathSweetDeath]

It depends on the situation and who it is. As Oscar Wild said, some only improve the world by leaving it. But those people are usually far too selfish to CTB.