Discussion Anyone else dosnt buy that SN dosnt cause brain permanent brain demage if you survive?

[RABITIA]

I mean it works by depriving our brain of oxygen and medically it's a known fact that depriving oxygen to the brain will demage it.
This is literally the first google result about it:

 

[mrtime87]

I don't buy it's painless or peaceful either
Has anyone seen M*A*S*H*?

Suicide is painless is meant to be ironic. It's always painful.

 

[MidnightDream]

Hard to tell really isn't it. bc if someone survived n did have evident brain damage i doubt it would be top of their minds to come to sasu n report it

there have been posts here of people that took a close to lethal amount, survived, n reported no long lasting effects but beyond that, who knows

 

[itsalittlecold]

Although I do agree with you, because it literally is depriving your brain of oxygen…
Here's some scientific literature off 2/3 documented cases of survival after sn poisoning.

it does confuse me too though, but I suppose there's always a risk to everything right?
Sometimes I see warnings on things & I really have to question why they even needed to state that in the first place haha.

Survival after self‐poisoning with sodium nitrite: A case report

Sodium nitrite ingestion poses a considerable public health threat. The incidence of sodium nitrite self‐poisoning in the United States has been trending upward since 2017. Our case report describes an intentional sodium nitrite ingestion with ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Also even that it's our brains thinking of ways to ctb, our body has pretty profound ways of surviving! It fascinates me.

 

[BrainShower]

The thing is that i think (and i may be wrong) it's possible for emts to administer methylene blue on site, which immediately reverses the effects of the SN.
Kind of like narcan does for opioid overdoses.
And here's a link: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29611486/
Edit: well i dont think ambulances carry it but the emergency rooms do.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I imagine it's a risk with any method that works by depriving major organs of oxygen- including partial hanging, any type of asphyziation, eg. inert gas. I definitely don't think it's something to mess about with unless someone is sure and I think it's best to follow the protocol as closely as possible.

I agree that I doubt it's the completely pain free, efficient magic powder we hope it will be. That said, I've found it kind of impressive that, even here, people have been well enough to report on a failed attempt just days later.

I also feel like, if brain damage was a very common side effect- that would be a complete gift to pro-lifers. Surely- if they could back up that claim with legitimate evidence- that would put a lot of people off.

Sadly, I think all methods carry very significant risks of severely maiming us. I'm not sure there even is a risk free DIY method.

 

[Mebius]

I dont know, i dont feel any more stupider than before i took SN and surviving

 

[Gangrel]

I know we are all depressed and fucked up in some way but it doesn't require a genius to inherently know any method will be dangerous and extremely uncomfortable, honestly sometimes i think it's not even the method causing the person pain, but the terror of death and the unkown. Every living being is hard wired against it. It's the ultimate bite the bullet situation.

 

[rozeske]

Well there is no dying with out damaging your organs and your brain. It's a process of killing your insides, hence killing you. If the process of dying is interrupted and they try to bring you back, depending on how long it's been, you may walk out ok or half dead. You wouldn't need to buy anything if you fact check.

 

[Cress]

I know we are all depressed and fucked up in some way but it doesn't require a genius to inherently know any method will be dangerous and extremely uncomfortable, honestly sometimes i think it's not even the method causing the person pain, but the terror of death and the unkown. Every living being is hard wired against it. It's the ultimate bite the bullet situation.

Yeah 100% agree. The overall positivity surrounding SN has swung too far In one direction for a lot of members here. You have way too many people saying it's a very peaceful death with only minor discomfort if you vomit once.

There is a mega thread where people have collected testimony from those who have Witnessed people passing away from SN. If you don't cherry pick particular instances and have a more moderate view taking into account many different instances the death appears to be incredibly painful.

I don't buy into people thinking this is fear mongering. It's important Morally and ethically for people to be properly Informed that death is a horrific experience. Unless you're somehow able to instantly vaporize yourself.

On that note yes there is always going to be a chance that you permanently disable yourself anytime you take action to harm yourself.

 

[Praestat_Mori]

That has been discussed many times. Our brains can survive with very little oxygen and keep functioning. We know that from mouth to mouth resuscitation in first aid. That can be crucial for a victim to survive without severe health damage.

It's as simple s this: The earlier one is rescued the higher the chances are top survive without sever damage to any organs.

The question is: Why would we consider being rescued in a serious attempt? It's better to make sure not to be rescued at all if we're serious about an attempt and about the wish to die.

 

[willitpass]

I survived an SN attempt so close that I needed CPR. I have had no long term lasting effects from it. Partial hanging, however, left me with some mild tics. As someone who works in healthcare, I honestly can't explain the extremely high rate of SN survivors who appear to have no lasting effects, but it is a common phenomenon. I suppose it comes down to how quickly you get methelyn blue, but I truly don't have an explanation.

 

[2messdup]

I survived an SN attempt so close that I needed CPR. I have had no long term lasting effects from it. Partial hanging, however, left me with some mild tics. As someone who works in healthcare, I honestly can't explain the extremely high rate of SN survivors who appear to have no lasting effects, but it is a common phenomenon. I suppose it comes down to how quickly you get methelyn blue, but I truly don't have an explanation.

Can I ask did you find SN incredibly painful?

 

[LifeQuitter]

There's a chart I think from the PPEH that says have investigated thousands of cases of SN poisoning and haven't found one case of someone developing brain damage. So it seems you either die or survive without issue from it.

 

[offbalance]

There's a chart I think from the PPEH that says have investigated thousands of cases of SN poisoning and haven't found one case of someone developing brain damage. So it seems you either die or survive without issue from it.

That's interesting, from that it seems it doesn't matter how long it is til you're found, as long as you're administered methylene blue, which I guess reverses the effects of SN. (Not stating that as fact but that's what I would deduce from there being thousands of cases of this) Would you have the link to this by any chance?

 

[sugarb]

I mean it works by depriving our brain of oxygen and medically it's a known fact that depriving oxygen to the brain will demage it.
This is literally the first google result about it: View attachment 146445

I really don't trust that shit.

You need a regimen, need to take X and Y so you don't vomit, oh and a bit of Z for the pain (that supposedly doesn't exist or is minimal), ignore the fact that you can be resuscitated fairly easily, ignore the common symptoms of abdominal pain and diarrhea, and ignore the easily available statistics on just how unreliable poison is in general. It's so over-complicated and fishy.

To everyone considering SN, please read up.

VA.gov | Veterans Affairs

Apply for and manage the VA benefits and services you’ve earned as a Veteran, Servicemember, or family member—like health care, disability, education, and more.

www.mirecc.va.gov

These stats are a bit old but the new numbers are more or less the same and I couldn't find a more recent graph.

Anything other than those top 6 and you're looking at less than 1/4 success rates. Less than 1/50, actually. The fact there are so many SN survivors in this thread says enough. Whole lot fewer gunshot survivors.

 

[LifeQuitter]

That's interesting, from that it seems it doesn't matter how long it is til you're found, as long as you're administered methylene blue, which I guess reverses the effects of SN. (Not stating that as fact but that's what I would deduce from there being thousands of cases of this) Would you have the link to this by any chance?

Why SN does not cause brain damage?	Hypoxic brain injury (drastic reduction in oxygen) is much slower than anoxic brain injury (sudden shutoff of oxygen, kills brain cells in 4 minutes). Other organs die first . Heart, kidneys, etc collapse first – see research link Possible temporary damage to globus pallidus (basal ganglia) – spontanously healed after few days [1]
Chances of coma / becoming vegetable?	Currently 0% , as far as we know: Out of thousands poisoning cases throughout centuries – there are no such documented cases. [1] [2] "The Chinese Case" is not documented , we don't know patient background , and family claims malpractice . The child is not vegetative but brain dead (no chances of waking up). It is not a good case to study . [1]

Useful Info About SN

I found this table in an old thread and found it quite informative so thought I’d repost it. Death . Official "SN Poisoning" Easily detectable, nothing more to it. How does it work exactly? Blood cells do not carry oxygen, though lungs continue to supply it, and brain is still...

sanctioned-suicide.net

 

[IWishIWasAFlower]

To everyone considering SN, please read up.

Im confused by this data collection, or maybe i dont understand it. This is about measures to prevent suicides, mainly impulsive suicides isnt it?


Is this relevant for people who plan their suicide over a longer period?

I agree that poisoning is very unreliable, but doesnt that change with the poison you take? The lethality should differ a lot. The linked Sources for the medication portion are "Association of Opioid Overdose With Opioid Prescriptions to Family Members" and "United Kingdom legislation on pack sizes of analgesics: background, rationale, and effects on suicide and deliberate self-harm" i dont see any about any form of poisoning, did i miss them?

Can you give further insights how you understand all that or is your point the graph you postet above?
Thank you

 

[locked*n*loaded]

I'm fairly impartial to the whole SN debate, since it's not my method. I don't know how painful it is, how high the true success rate is for it, whether an unsuccessful attempt can leave someone with brain damage. You get occasional reports here on SaSu from members who have supposedly taken SN, yet survived, for whatever reason. Some have reported pain, others have not. Remember everything you read on here is anecdotal. Even someone reporting that they have first-hand knowledge of so-and-so taking SN, and succeeding, is anecdotal. There's no way to verify what anyone says. This is the curse of anonymous websites.

Here's what I do know, though. If SN wasn't an "effective" ctb method (I think you have to define for yourself what effective means to you), why would governments around the world be trying to ban the substance? It would be about impossible for governments to ban ropes, or guns (at least in the US since the right to possess them is written in the Constitution), or bodies of water. They eliminate what they can and SN is something they can eliminate, at least, substantially.

If you're looking for perfect methods, I doubt they exist. No one alive even knows what death from natural causes feels like. If there's pain. If there's "something" else after. I believe there is some pain (nothing after though). How could there not be pain? If someone has a heart attack and the blood pumping efficiency of the heart is reduced by 90%, I see no way that there isn't pain involved until the heart, finally, ceases all function. Depriving any part of your body of what it needs to stay alive is going to result in some type of pain. When oxygenated blood isn't getting to where it needs to be, there's going to be pain.

I remember what my father went through when his leg arteries were clogged up. His foot and leg weren't getting the blood supply they needed. He was in an enormous amount of pain that no drug in the world could alleviate. Gangrene set in around his toes. Once he had the leg amputated and healed from the operation, the pain ceased.

My point is that even in "natural" events, like blood deprivation to parts of the body, there is going to be pain. Even in "natural" death, I believe, when bloodflow is gradually being reduced to parts of the body, there is going to be pain. Right up until someone actually dies, there is going to be pain until life (as we know it, at least) ceases. Hopefully, there is no pain after death.

Our perception of pain seems to not exist when we're unconscious. I remember having an excruciatingly painful earache years ago. I couldn't get an appointment with my doctor until Monday, so I suffered all weekend. The only relief I got from the pain was when I fell asleep. I don't remember perceiving pain while I was sleeping. Once I awoke, though, the pain was immediately perceived again.

I think the best chance for someone to not perceive any pain during a ctb would be for the method to render you unconscious very quickly and for death to occur while unconscious. The road to reaching unconsciousness cannot be slow and filled with uncomfortable, painful events that one has to endure while waiting for unconsciousness to occur. Unconsciousness needs to occur nearly immediately. There are very few methods that "promise" that.

 

[rozeske]

I think this answers your question in detail. The report shows several list of both fatal and survived cases of SN poisoning. Check the table of appendix provided. The case reports can give a general idea of what to expect for anyone considering the SN method.

Cases of suicidal and accidental ingestion of sodium nitrite with fatal outcome; circumstances, toxicology results and postmortem findings + Cases of survived suicide attempts and accidental ingestion of sodium nitrite; circumstances, clinical findings, MetHb, and treatment.

one of the cases included is a report of couples suicide attempt (what lookes like a failed suicide pact?). It's a case that shows how severe methemoglobinemia was reversed with one of them but resuscitation effort was unsuccessful with the other.

"A 26-year-old man and 20-year-old woman attempted suicide by taking sodium nitrite, and were brought to the emergency department.

Diagnosis:
The male patient collapsed at the scene. He ingested approximately 18 g of sodium nitrate, and his methemoglobin level was 90.3%. The female patient was conscious, but was cyanotic. She ingested approximately 12.5 g of sodium nitrite, and her methemoglobin level was 54.6%.

Interventions:
The male patient received advanced cardiac life support in the emergency department. Methylene blue was immediately administered for the female patient.

Outcomes:
The male patient died despite aggressive resuscitation. The female patient's cyanosis resolved, and her methemoglobin level decreased to 1.2% 3 hours later.

Lessons:
The immediate administration of methylene blue in severe methemoglobinemia patients prevented fatal consequences. The public should be informed about the accessibility and toxicity of sodium nitrite."

Source: https://journals.lww.com/md-journal..._of_fatal_methemoglobinemia_caused_by.12.aspx


Resuscitation efforts for SN poisoning may prove to be successful or not depending mainly the time of antidote administration. Although there are several cases of both survival and fatal outcomes, like many other suicide methods, permanent damage is not out of the question. While there might be other cases, this report of brain damage is the only one I have found.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9892231/#:~:text=A%20liver%20derived%20from%20a,transplanted%20safely%20in%20select%20cases.

 

[sugarb]

Im confused by this data collection, or maybe i dont understand it. This is about measures to prevent suicides, mainly impulsive suicides isnt it?

View attachment 146476
Is this relevant for people who plan their suicide over a longer period?

I agree that poisoning is very unreliable, but doesnt that change with the poison you take? The lethality should differ a lot. The linked Sources for the medication portion are "Association of Opioid Overdose With Opioid Prescriptions to Family Members" and "United Kingdom legislation on pack sizes of analgesics: background, rationale, and effects on suicide and deliberate self-harm" i dont see any about any form of poisoning, did i miss them?

Can you give further insights how you understand all that or is your point the graph you postet above?
Thank you

The linked statistics were made to inform people about the risk of impulse suicide, yes.

The red chart says "of people we interviewed who survived a suicide attempt, 24% attempted within 5 minutes of ideation, 48% attempted within 20 minutes of ideation, 71% attempted within an hour of ideation". The first two numbers are encapsulated in the third if that makes sense.

It's not relevant to long-term planners, no. According to the poll, people who attempt and survive to answer that poll are impulsive, which really only tells us that most survivors are impulsive. ie- Don't be impulsive.

Poisoning is almost always going to be less reliable than a more physically violent method like hanging, gunshot, drowning, or jumping. The liver can't save you from a rope around your neck, EMTs can't inject you with something to fix a thirty story fall, you can't give in to SI mid-gunshot, etc.

However I will concede that the amount and type of poison can drastically change those numbers and that the reason the efficacy rate is so low is largely due to poison/drugs being a common impulse method. A less impulsive, well researched attempt using the proper type and amount of poison will have higher success rates. In a similar vein, falling has a much higher lethality than listed if done at the correct height. Hanging and firearms are generally just more idiot-proof lol

This is just conjecture, but I think the reason gas is so high despite it not being as obviously physically violent or lethal a method is because it typically requires much more planning.

I don't know if there are statistics on the most effective suicide poison; I didn't see any on the page.

My main point was the graph I copypasted, yes. And you're very welcome!

I would add that suicide method statistics in general have a few issues, namely:

1. Unsuccessful attempts are not always reported.
2. Suicides and non-suicides can be confused (accidental fall or intentional? Gun cleaning accident or suicide? etc).
3. Impulsiveness and other specifics like inebriation are generally not taken into account.

Which means drunkenly jumping out of a two story window and then calling 911 is counted exactly the same as jumping off a twenty story parking garage after months of planning and surviving due to a passerby reporting it. And the second jumper could if they're a good liar avoid being included in the statistics at all.

So really only the obvious successful and obvious unsuccessful are being reported