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ernieclementsucks1

Member
Sep 27, 2025
7
I guess I'm "mentally ill" in that my brain is an unhealthy state of only feeling negative things, but it makes sense for the situation I'm in. These feelings are natural reactions to the way I'm treated and the way the world is. My conclusion of suicide is logical decision based on reasoning of not wanting to feel anymore and there being nothing for me here.

This is why treatment doesn't work. Artificial chemicals from meds don't change my situation. Talking with a therapist only reaffirms my beliefs when he can't give me a good reason not to. Coping skills don't work when I know they're lies. Even ketamine which is supposed to literally rewire your brain can't change facts.

When I was in the psych ward one of the group leaders said that with clinical depression we often don't know the cause but it will go away if you do healthy things. For me, I know the exact cause and I know it's only going to get worse.

I'm not crazy for feeling this way, you're not crazy for feeling this way, in fact the least we're owed is to have this one choice when we have no control over everything else.
 
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T

TheUncommon

Student
May 19, 2021
153
Most "mental illnesses" are expected outcomes of situations that a close-minded minority deem as evidence of defectiveness, when it's nothing more than expected, rational behaviour of a human confronting unfamiliar distressors without a guidebook on how exactly they should act.

It's basically a way for the masses to self-justify their own suspicions or ignorance in regard to behaviours they don't immediately understand. It's a thought-terminating process that allows people to judge without needing to actually confront the merits of the "mentally ill" person's struggles, viewpoints, or claims.
"They're crazy" is just another modern form of "they're a witch".

If you can trace your behaviours to specific causes, you can justify your actions, and it's not a major personality disorder like schizophrenia (or hallucinatory/genuine delusion), then it's a hard sell for anyone to prove that your actions are irrational.
 
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PI3.14

PI3.14

what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider
Oct 4, 2024
359
It depends tbh.

If a person is on a wheelchair for life, and they want to CTB cus they don't want to be in that state for life, is that a rational decision? What if another person is ok with being on that state for life, are they being irrational or naive?

I feel a lot of times it has to do with what you want for yourself as a person.

IMO, suicide is only a result of a pathological mind, if and only if the person has a life that they're absolutely content with or happy with(this includes their body, their identity or sexual orientation too), and yet they want to die.

There decision then isn't driven by anything bad in their life or anything that they don't like about their body or identity. It's basically a pure suicidal ideation that stems from perhaps an unhealthy body.

However, some individuals are dealing with any bad things at a personal level, yet, the suffering of others, the cruelty and unfairness of life, can drive them to suicide even if they themselves were in a good position.

IMO, the action of suicide itself doesn't tell us much about the person, but I believe that at the heart of every rational suicide, is an emotional one, perhaps one that stems from dealing with a difficult life.
 
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ernieclementsucks1

Member
Sep 27, 2025
7
It depends tbh.

If a person is on a wheelchair for life, and they want to CTB cus they don't want to be in that state for life, is that a rational decision? What if another person is ok with being on that state for life, are they being irrational or naive?

I feel a lot of times it has to do with what you want for yourself as a person.

IMO, suicide is only a result of a pathological mind, if and only if the person has a life that they're absolutely content with or happy with(this includes their body, their identity or sexual orientation too), and yet they want to die.

There decision then isn't driven by anything bad in their life or anything that they don't like about their body or identity. It's basically a pure suicidal ideation that stems from perhaps an unhealthy body.

However, some individuals are dealing with any bad things at a personal level, yet, the suffering of others, the cruelty and unfairness of life, can drive them to suicide even if they themselves were in a good position.

IMO, the action of suicide itself doesn't tell us much about the person, but I believe that at the heart of every rational suicide, is an emotional one, perhaps one that stems from dealing with a difficult life.
When it comes to the wheelchair question, I think both can be rational. People can have different reactions to the same situation. If you can find happiness it is rational to stay alive, if you want to ctb it's rational to do so. You're right that suicide is about emotions, but emotions can be logical.
 
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SomewhatLoved

SomewhatLoved

I now know the depths I reach are limitless
Apr 12, 2023
448
What specifically is the circumstantial reason that you feel depressed?

I think whether or not this is a rational response depends on what your reason is. But, I do get the feeling that you have "learned helplessness" as you seem to feel that you cannot escape or recover from your mental illness. While not a medical condition/mental illness in itself, learned helplessness is a psychological response characteristic of multiple mental illnesses.

Also, while you could argue that certain cases of depression or suicidality are "physiological" or rational responses to circumstance, I think they can still be considered illnesses. There are many other medical conditions which are a reaction to circumstance and are still a disease or illness, they are just ACUTE and not CHRONIC. Think of poisoning for example. Food poisoning is an illness. Food poisoning is the body's logical reaction to the ingestion of contaminated foods, but it is still a disease/illness. If you are depressed because your son has died, or because your wife of 25 years divorced you is that a measured/reasonable response? I would say so. Is it still a disease? I would also say so. It causes harm, symptomatic changes (the primary in this case being consistent low mood, however there are others), and has been identified as having certain causes and treatments... I would say that meets the definition of a disease.
 
PI3.14

PI3.14

what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider
Oct 4, 2024
359
When it comes to the wheelchair question, I think both can be rational. People can have different reactions to the same situation. If you can find happiness it is rational to stay alive, if you want to ctb it's rational to do so. You're right that suicide is about emotions, but emotions can be logical.
Yeah, it basically boils down to the person. However, the term "rational suicide", imo, came as a push back against the idea that suicide is always irrational and always a result of something not functioning well in the brain that could be fixed with meds and/or therapy.
 
K

Kurwenal

Enden sah ich die Welt.
Apr 9, 2025
127
I can only speak from my own experiences within the mental healthcare system. I will do my best to keep my tinfoil hat off, but everything below is based on personal, lived experience. I'm not a doctor, a healthcare professional or a scientist, and you can decide for yourself whether that's for better or for worse.

In my opinion, a lot of what is called mental illness is a societal construct rather than an actual illness. Say that someone has glaucoma. There is a very definite physical change within the body that can be measured and observed. In all fields of medicine, nothing is certain. Human knowledge is (generally) constantly expanding and changing, so one given case of what may be diagnosed as glaucoma today could actually be considered another condition entirely in, say, 50 years' time. Misdiagnoses also occur. You may go to one ophthalmologist and be told you have glaucoma, but decide for a second opinion and are instead told you have something else. Whom do you believe? What is right? Either way, there is a definite physical occurrence within your eyes that can be seen (with the right equipment), measured and, hopefully, managed.

Mental illness, and psychiatry, in my own experience, doesn't work that way. I believe the brain is the least understood part of the body. There is so, so much modern science just doesn't know yet. But, just as someone may walk into their optometrist to complain of poorer peripheral vision of late, someone may go to a psychiatrist to report excessive sadness, overwhelming anxiety, disturbing hallucinations, or any number of concerns. The trouble is, blood tests won't show an increase in sorrow. Faecal samples don't have signposts in them that read 'Anxiety'. An MRI won't turn up with images of the hallucinations. Science does, admittedly, understand some aspects of the brain. Things like SSRIs were developed with aim for a very particular mechanism. But for a lot of 'modern' medications and treatments, the actual process by which they work is generally not actually known with any degree of certainty. They just seem to work better than placebo or nothing in controlled studies, so they slap them on the market.

Consider 'depression' alone. Diagnosing someone with 'depression' and saying you will treat them for 'depression' is, as far as I'm concerned, akin to saying they have 'bad eyesight' and that you will treat the 'bad eyesight'. But the psychiatrists and psychologists I have had the misfortune of being under just slap the label on you, then do what supposedly works for X% of patients, and tell you to come back for review in 4-6 weeks. They don't aim to find why you are exhibiting the symptoms you experience. They just pick a label that suits what you're describing and exhibiting, scribble down a prescription, lock you up if you're unlucky, and go home, knowing with great confidence that they've contributed to someone's health.

If someone you love dearly dies, and you are overcome with sadness for months, years, are you depressed? If you have a physical disability that causes chronic pain, making existence suffering, are you depressed? If some invisible switch in your brain was flicked the wrong way before you were ever born, and you can see only sorrow and misery wherever you look, especially within yourself, are you depressed? If all of these are depression, how can all of them be treated the same way?

Mental healthcare unfortunately is a branch of actual, physical healthcare. Symptoms are considered, scientific tests are performed, a diagnosis is made, treatment is administered. I maintain that none of the tests in psychiatry are scientific. Asking me to rate my mood on a scale from 1 to 5 is not scientific. You don't see someone brought into the emergency department with a broken leg, and rather than order an X-ray, the doctor asks how painful it is, then makes the diagnosis based on that. But as science currently stands, there are no reliable scientific methods for determining mental illness. Again, the brain is mostly a mystery. The scientific community knows a lot more about it than, say, 100, 50, 25, even 10 years ago. But it's a flickering candle of knowledge in an infinite abyss of the unknown.

How can you diagnose a condition based solely on reported or observed symptoms? It does happen occasionally in the physical healthcare world, yes. But it is not general practice. It leads only to confusion, most of all for the patient. I've had many psychiatrists, though most were ones forced upon me through involuntary admissions. I've had 7 that I saw as an outpatient, each for a period of a minimum of 6 months, though generally it was at least 1.5 to 2 years for each. Apparently, I have treatment-resistant depression, anxiety, autism, ADHD, bipolar disorder and PTSD. Apparently I also have none of these, or some or maybe only one of these, but not others. Every last one told me something that contradicted the diagnosis of previous psychiatrists. Whom do I trust? Nobody at this point, obviously.

If the professional themselves can't decide who has what mental illness, what hope have we plebs of ever knowing whether we're even mentally ill in the first place? Is it mental illness to be different? How different do you have to be to be considered mentally ill? Homosexuality was a mental illness in the not-at-all distant past. How can any of us trust what is not only a nascent and developing field, but more importantly, one based in division and hatred and stigma?

I am mentally ill because I cry almost every day, usually several times a day, without really knowing why sometimes. I am mentally ill because I hate myself. I am mentally ill because I want to die. And because I'm mentally ill, I am less of a person. I typically had no say in what treatment was administered to me, and under what circumstances. I don't steal, or aim to hurt others, but my house is most definitely the one that has seen the most police visits in the street (which I know is an eternal shame to my family). I am told that my lived experience is invalid, that the way I perceive reality is wrong and needs to be changed, needs to be fixed, because, again, I am mentally ill.

Am I mentally ill? I honestly don't know anymore. But it doesn't matter, because I certainly have no say in it. It has been decided for me that that is my identity and that is what I am, despite the underlying systems that define how a diagnosis of mental illness can even be made being completely, and utterly, and wholly, flawed, through and through.
 
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compulsoryaliveness

compulsoryaliveness

Member
Oct 6, 2024
27
I could have written the same thing 4 weeks ago. Basically, 4 weeks ago, after 2 years of consistent, unrelenting, severe depression, I felt relief when I pissed in the toilet. It seems small, but it was huge for me.

Since then, I've spent 4 weeks feeling things again. Like I feel full when I've eaten, I feel the warmth when I've been cold, the colours in the sky pop out, it feels good to shower, piss, shit, eat, sleep. The other day I felt tired and it was SATISFYING.

I doubt whatever is happening to me is going to last, but in the meantime, it seems worth it to be alive because small pleasures have re-entered the data set of my life. And I also am so exhausted trying to CTB.

And to be clear, I would never tell anyone to rely on this miraculous switch in my body. It wasn't from therapy, medication or any of the shit I've been trying for years. It appears to be totally random. I have no idea why this has happened.

But nothing in my life has changed. I still believe I would be making a rational choice to kill myself. My life is fundamentally bad, and is likely to continue on that trajectory. But the difference of feeling these tiny bits of pleasure is completely life changing. So... I don't know.

I don't know how psychiatry could possibly make sense of this situation. It honestly feels like a miracle. Hard to believe it's not going to be much worse when it goes away again. Like this window of hope is gonna destroy me further.

Anyway, I believe it would be rational to kill myself. And I think people who don't understand that, at least some of them, are being consumed by their own small pleasures and have no idea what it means to live life without them.
 
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rustcohle4life

rustcohle4life

I'm bad at parties
Mar 16, 2025
264
If you have problems with how the world is like me and many others here, then yes depression is a completely rational result. It's not crazy or abnormal to look around and think there's something really wrong with this place. It's completely normal IMO to want to check out and not contribute a damn thing to this shit hole.

That's why antinatalism is getting more popular, cause bringing more souls here to continuously feed the machine is completely idiotic. But humanity won't liberate itself because biology and nature is too strong. That and the majority have religious delusions to give meaning to their suffering.

Unless you have schizophrenia or something that can be treated with actual medication, don't let anyone pathologize how you feel about this existence.

BTW this is all just my opinion at the end of the day.
 
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FuneralCry

FuneralCry

Just wanting some peace
Sep 24, 2020
45,315
I understand as for me existence itself is the problem, I don't see the illness in never wanting to suffer in this futile, deeply undesirable existence ever again, I'd just never wish for the burden of existence rather all I want is some peace, existence just feels like a mistake to me that just causes suffering all for the sake of it and I wish I never suffered more than anything.
 
S

SoulWantsHome

Member
Aug 6, 2025
77
I guess I'm "mentally ill" in that my brain is an unhealthy state of only feeling negative things, but it makes sense for the situation I'm in. These feelings are natural reactions to the way I'm treated and the way the world is. My conclusion of suicide is logical decision based on reasoning of not wanting to feel anymore and there being nothing for me here.

This is why treatment doesn't work. Artificial chemicals from meds don't change my situation. Talking with a therapist only reaffirms my beliefs when he can't give me a good reason not to. Coping skills don't work when I know they're lies. Even ketamine which is supposed to literally rewire your brain can't change facts.

When I was in the psych ward one of the group leaders said that with clinical depression we often don't know the cause but it will go away if you do healthy things. For me, I know the exact cause and I know it's only going to get worse.

I'm not crazy for feeling this way, you're not crazy for feeling this way, in fact the least we're owed is to have this one choice when we have no control over everything else.
If you truly have thought thoroughly through all the angles of a given situation, and truly have applied critical and logical thinking in your evaluation of them all; then your conclusion about that situation (whatever that conclusion may be), is based on rationality, and isn't based on irrationality.

Furthermore:
The fact that both you and another person, such as your therapist, are equally unable to come up with a good/valid counter-argument to your conclusion; further proves that your conclusion is actually based on rationality, and that it isn't based on irrationality.



(...) but it makes sense for the situation I'm in. These feelings are natural reactions to the way I'm treated and the way the world is. My conclusion of suicide is logical decision based on reasoning (...)

This is why treatment doesn't work. Artificial chemicals from meds don't change my situation. Talking with a therapist only reaffirms my beliefs when he can't give me a good reason not to. Coping skills don't work when I know they're lies. Even ketamine which is supposed to literally rewire your brain can't change facts.

I'm not crazy for feeling this way, you're not crazy for feeling this way, in fact the least we're owed is to have this one choice when we have no control over everything else.
Exactly.



When I was in the psych ward one of the group leaders said that with clinical depression we often don't know the cause but it will go away if you do healthy things.
That's because a lot of health-professionals (especially psychiatrists and medical doctors, as opposed to psychologists) don't actually understand psychology - and thereby don't actually understand how emotions (including depression) actually works, for the vast majority of people.

A lot of health-professionals (especially psychiatrists and medical doctors, as opposed to psychologists) are quite simply seriously incompetent at understanding psychology, due to their lack of intelligence, and/or their lack of knowledge regarding psychology.

And this incompetency of theirs, harms their patients – as their patients aren't given the correct solutions to their psychological/emotional problems (in cases where there actually are real solutions to their psychological/emotional problems); and/or are given medications that they don't actually need (although medications can help a bit in some cases, in the form of treating the symptom, but not treating the actual cause), and that often introduce serious, negative side-effects that only make life even worse for them.



For me, I know the exact cause (...)
Yeah, many of us do know the exact causes to our problems :)
 
I

itsgone2

Student
Sep 21, 2025
186
When I was in the psych ward one of the group leaders said that with clinical depression we often don't know the cause but it will go away if you do healthy things. For me, I know the exact cause and I know it's only going to get worse.
This is me too. There are factual reasons for my feeling this way.
I have an appointment with a psychiatrist today. It's in person. We will go over the facts. Then we'll discuss medication.
This is happening only because of how obviously depressed and suicidal I am. My therapist lined up this appointment.
I see it as pointless now. I won't mention that I do have a plan because that may get me committed. I won't mention how every time I drive im looking around for opportunities.
I will discuss seroquel. It's helping me sleep but I'm horribly groggy and numb the next day. Including very much right now.
 
J

J&L383

Enlightened
Jul 18, 2023
1,171
When it comes to the wheelchair question, I think both can be rational. People can have different reactions to the same situation. If you can find happiness it is rational to stay alive, if you want to ctb it's rational to do so. You're right that suicide is about emotions, but emotions can be logical.
I know someone who became a quadriplegic at 30, from an accident, and he did his best to adapt. But lots of challenges. One key concern was the possibility of choking to death. He ultimately made the what I would characterize as a rational decision, and died in Switzerland at age 40.
 

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