Discussion a necessary evil

[hotelandrea]

when i was in high school, i was the captain of the debate team and regularly participated in competitions. one tactic used often when trying to defend your team's position was to frame something as a "necessary evil."

as i get closer to my date, i find myself comparing my decision to ctb to that. there are people in my life that care about me deeply, and are probably going to be altered by this event in a life changing way. i haven't had contact with my family in 6 years, but i do have chosen family, you know?

to them, and to a lot of outsiders if we're being honest, this is viewed as an evil thing to do. i am knowingly causing extreme emotional harm to people that love me, so i truly don't blame them.

however, it is necessary. i have exhausted all other options. i really did give recovery an honest try for a long time, trying to evade what was inevitable all along. it's my choice. is it selfish? i suppose, in a way, but i have deemed it necessary.

what do you think? does this make any sense?

 

[TwoSoulsLiveInMe]

Apologies as this may sound flippant or dismissive. But I think making a decision about what to do with your own life and body after considerable effort to better your circumstances is not an evil thing. Also, both intentionally and not, people cause others harm all the time. Is it so wrong to cause some harm with the ultimate goal of finding peace? It's a drop in the bucket that is human suffering overall, and certainly doesn't make you an evil person.

We shouldn't condemn suicide as a selfish act. I think the term "necessary evil" is too strong, it attaches morality to what is a very personal decision, its nuance can only be understood in full by the person making that decision. I think it is just a course of action/choice like any other.

 

[hotelandrea]

Apologies as this may sound flippant or dismissive. But I think making a decision about what to do with your own life and body after considerable effort to better your circumstances is not an evil thing. Also, both intentionally and not, people cause others harm all the time. Is it so wrong to cause some harm with the ultimate goal of finding peace? It's a drop in the bucket that is human suffering overall, and certainly doesn't make you an evil person.

We shouldn't condemn suicide as a selfish act. I think the term "necessary evil" is too strong, it attaches morality to what is a very personal decision, its nuance can only be understood in full by the person making that decision. I think it is just a course of action/choice like any other.

unfortunately, i can't help but attach morality to everything i do. logically, i completely agree with everything you said. it's just difficult to try not to preemptively forgive people if they decide to be angry about my decision. i always try to understand why someone feels the way they do, sometimes to a fault.

 

[TwoSoulsLiveInMe]

unfortunately, i can't help but attach morality to everything i do. logically, i completely agree with everything you said. it's just difficult to try not to preemptively forgive people if they decide to be angry about my decision. i always try to understand why someone feels the way they do, sometimes to a fault.

I may be somewhat of a hypocrite, because I completely agree with the need to understand someone in that way. I have always prided myself on the ability to hold back anger, and refuse to pass judgement until I understand the full logic and emotions behind the decisions others make. I don't think you're wrong to consider the feelings of others, in fact it shows incredible strength and empathy.
Always striving to put other peoples emotions to the forefront of your mind can make it so difficult to identify what you yourself truly want and need. It really feels like drowning in indecision, the kind of strength and empathy you're showing is so very painful to live through. My heart goes out to you.

 

[Forever Sleep]

...

I'm sorry this post is obviously triggering for you- reminding you of a time you'd rather forget.

But, the post itself isn't offensive. Your response comes across as very hostile in response.

 

[hotelandrea]

....

i joined the team to overcome my anxiety, not to make others miserable. it taught me public speaking skills that have been very helpful throughout my life. i experienced bullying too, i was very much an outcast… but that group was full of people in the same situation, so it felt safe. i'm sorry you had a similar experience and i'm sorry you're here as well.

 

[DeathSweetDeath]

Evil? Nah, that's a stretch. However, some of these comments are pretty evil, tbh!

 

[Forever Sleep]

I haven't thought of it specifically in that regard but, yes- I think I probably would view it as a 'necessary evil.'

I think suicide can feel like a necessity to us- to escape an intolerable situation we can't find an adequate solution to. I do also recognise that suicide can be devastating for those left behind. As any death can be. Death itself is a sort of necessary evil. There aren't the resources for everyone to live forever but, it can be devastating to lose ones we love.

I feel like suicide inflicts early grieving on people. So, it does knowingly create harm. I can't really move beyond that in my head- which is why I feel stuck here for now. I'm not sure I would go as far as to call it 'evil' though. Because- that's not the primary goal. The primary goal I think is to escape suffering. The harm that it creates is a very unfortunate side effect.

I still think the term fits though because, we do use it for things that may not be entirely evil. Just, unpleasant and unwanted from time to time. I'd describe having to work a job we sometimes/ often hate as a necessary evil. It's not like the job probably is all that evil but, it's something unpleasant in life we feel forced to accept.

I suppose I do actually believe suicide is something the normies have to accept because some people are subjected to more than they can cope with. Suicide became their 'necessary evil' to escape the pain they were in.

 

[hotelandrea]

Evil? Nah, that's a stretch. However, some of these comments are pretty evil, tbh!

i agree, but i don't take it personally. we're all going through different things. some people are still under the illusion that lashing out on others will make them feel better. i've been there, the guilt just makes things exponentially worse.

 

[CenturiesEnd]

...

wtf dude…you don't even know the life they had and if they fit the "type" of people you dislike. how rude

 

[hotelandrea]

The harm that it creates is a very unfortunate side effect.

you are absolutely right and realistically, there are side effects to varying degrees of severity for every decision we make. it's a risk vs reward scenario and i have weighed the reward (the end of my personal suffering) higher than the risk (inflicting suffering on others).

does that make me an inherently bad person? i don't know. i'm certain a lot of people would think so, ive heard that speech many times, about how selfish of a thing it is to do. it has just gotten to a point where i need to prioritize myself. why am i living for the appeasement of other people?

 

[Forever Sleep]

you are absolutely right and realistically, there are side effects to varying degrees of severity for every decision we make. it's a risk vs reward scenario and i have weighed the reward (the end of my personal suffering) higher than the risk (inflicting suffering on others).

does that make me an inherently bad person? i don't know. i'm certain a lot of people would think so, ive heard that speech many times, about how selfish of a thing it is to do. it has just gotten to a point where i need to prioritize myself. why am i living for the appeasement of other people?

I agree with you. I see it as a balance too. How much pain am I in vs. How much pain will my suicide likely cause? I don't think anyone's a 'bad' person for feeling like the balance is tipped too heavily their side and they can't cope with it anymore.

 

[cciro]

It can cause harm for sure but I hope (and believe) it's not an evil. This isn't exactly rigorous but it doesn't feel evil right? Like we have a visceral reaction to evils like genocide or torture which is different from the reaction we have to things like theft and suicide. Or the feeling you would get when you hear someone murdered someone vs when you hear someone ctb. Maybe this is all subjective and depends on what you were taught idk. I'd like to think that we're pretty decent at recognizing "true" evils though. And that this isn't it.